Why do people dislike character dolls or dolls without backstories?

Or, are they expressing their own views, and that view is being perceived in a negative light since the reader/listener is insecure? Communication works both ways. Someone writes something and the receiver decides to interpret that something in a positive or negative light.

Insightful comment, but I don't think it's limited to expression. It does indeed expand into perceptions.

 

It may sounds a bit crazy to some but that is what it feels like yes. You nailed it. They are like life support to me. What keeps me going.

 

Well, my guess is this:

Here you got OC-doll A. The owner came up with their own character, made everything about him/her up from scratch. And now, he's got this fine-looking doll, posts pics of it and - well, some people like the doll and praise it but not all that many, actually

And there you got Character-doll B. The owner "only" had to find the right doll, clothes, wig, eyes, stick it all together and - voliá, finished! He, too, posts pics of his doll and - people just LOVE it! They go crazy praising it and he gets a lot of comments.

And owner A thinks: "What the heck? Why do people like HIS doll more? It's not HIS character! He didn't create it - he just made a doll look like someone else's character. Oh phooey."

Maybe it's not like this all the time but I think sometimes, it is. I think it just rubs some doll-owners the wrong way that someone gets the same amount of praise for a doll that isn't an OC as they get for their OC-doll. Because they took so much effort, not only to get the doll right but also, to come up with the character. Maybe they worked on it for years.

My take on it is, that - it's just as it is with fan fiction. Just because you use pre-existing characters and a pre-existing setting, that doesn't mean it's less of an effort to get everything right. If anything, then it's more difficult. Cos with character dolls (or fan fic), if you get something wrong, people who're familar with the character/setting will notice - and they will point it out. Whereas with an OC-doll, the only person who'll know if you get something wrong will be YOU, the creator of that character.

Fact is: Be it OC-doll or character-doll, it takes a lot of time, effort and money to get them right.

 

It doesn't make it easier or harder to get the doll just right no matter what other people think though. Even if it is only you who knows, it makes no difference. I believe the same amount of effort is required to make it perfect.

 

This. I'm severely picky about my OC's dolls. And with me, everything about them has to be perfect. I really think it depends on the person ^^

 

I own both kinds of dolls - character dolls and dolls created after my own original characters - and I can say from my experience, my character dolls have required more effort on my part to make them meet my standards of perfection, if you will, in terms of how accurately they portray the character. I find them more satisfying to really put together and it is enjoyable to hear other fans of the character comment on how close you've gotten.

For my original characters, eh, no one really knows what they're supposed to look like aside from my friends. I have more room to work with a doll in that regard. I treat my dolls, both fan character based and OC character based, as pieces of 3D fanart. How many people looking at a picture of my beloved Natsume know that the character is supposed to have blue eyes, but because I've never been able to find the right shade of blue in the right size by the right eye maker, I've just switched doll Natsume to having green eyes to match his twin? No one but my friends who've heard me complain about it and then just decide to switch them because I would rather have a Natsume with eyes that fit properly of the right quality than one that has eyes the right colour but that do not fit right. It just makes better photographs that way. His twin has black hair and I occasionally photograph him with blonde hair to match Natsume. These are characters I have written for years and years and are quite dear to me, but because they're mine, I can change them with none the wiser. I can change them to suit my moods and evolve them over time. The fanfiction I write and the character based dolls I make are more difficult for me because I have stricter parameters to work with. I want to stay as close to the original source as I can.

So it is entirely possible for a writer or artist to change their own creations for ease. I didn't like the way doll Natsume was going with blue eyes. I changed them to green. Much more happy with doll Natsume. Character Natsume? He still has blue eyes, though I have been thinking about making him green eyed officially in his writing as well as I am starting to like the colour combo of blonde/green more than I used to, but I may not. I still like him with blue eyes. His doll form is just never going to have them.

A lot of the grumbling I've seen personally about OC vs character dolls is generally people who are heavily into their OC's not liking the attention that character dolls receive because they have a built in fanbase of people who already love the character. OC's from random doll owner on the internet? I'm going to be brutally honest - I really don't care about them or their backstory. I may appreciate a nice picture and move on, but that's about it. I see a really well done amazing looking Cloud Strife? I squee a little and may possibly even comment. It's hard to accept that people don't really care about the story you've worked to craft for your doll, but well, them's the breaks. I certainly don't expect people to care about or know the stories behind my own OC dolls and have worked more towards conveying very solid pieces of their personalities through single photographs. It's really just the old popularity contest issues, only this time people throw in the "I'm more creative!!!11!" with it and also make it a creativity contest. It's just something people need to eventually get over.

 

Kim

That is how it works for you and that is perfectly fine. I am just saying that for other people it is not that simple. I do not compromise with my characters. They have to be perfect and I spend as much effort on them as I would on a character doll.
I do not present my characters to others except my closest friends so I cannot say how other people might feel. Creativity to me isn't really something you can compete with and neither do I care to. I create because it makes me feel better.

 

It's fine you work that way, but you explicitly said you believe no writer or artist would change their characters because they mean too much to them, and I can tell you that as a writer, occasional artist, and doll owner, you are wrong because I have done just that. And yes, my characters are pieces of my imagination I am quite attached to and who mean a lot to me.

 

I said I do not believe they would do it because it is the easiest way out.
If you can change your own character that easily simply because it is convenient then you have proved me wrong. Some people do work that way then. My bad.

 

Not necessarily -- I know that I said that my fan dolls had been more difficult, realize though that that was a personal statement not meant to apply to other people. It was more of a response against the idea that fan dolls are some how an easy way out. Other people also happened to have the same experiences with their own dolls.

I think you get different sets of challenges with fan dolls and OCs -- or maybe it's that the challenges manifest in different ways. With the OCs it's a personal best sort of thing, which can make them very difficult depending on the character design and how much the creator is willing to make do. You can't however say that no one is willing to make changes to their OCs, that's a very personal sort of thing and it's going to depend both on the creator and the individual traits in question -- what the owner considers a must and what things can be done without.

I've shelled OCs before that had some traits that were incredibly difficult for me to get right, and it did bother me a lot because some things are just a must for particular characters to have. However, being that they were OCs, there was no real outside pressure (for lack of a better way to put it) -- it was only about *my* reaction. And some things about their personal appearance I was willing to give a bit on, because I felt that it wouldn't hurt my perception of that character to do so. It simply depended on the situation with the individual character and doll, and the level of difficulty varied a lot amongst them.

With fan dolls there's not only my reaction to my own doll, but added to it is the need to have them be readily recognizable to other people as well. I don't feel like I have as much room to decide what absolutely has to be kept and what can be changed. If I'm making a doll in tribute to a recognized character, then it's not really fulfilling it's purpose (to me anyway), if it can't be recognized as that character, and that can often mean needing to get a lot of little details right. It takes me forever to get a fan doll to any state of completion, and then there's usually still some tinkering and changes I want to make. I'm not sure that the people who really look down their noses as fan dolls (I'm not implying that you do, Nimho) realize exactly how much goes in to it and that there tends to be an added layer of pressure to get it right. That doesn't mean that OCs can't be ungodly difficult at times too, but people can't use level of difficulty as a reason to write off folks who don't go the OC route.

I hope my using the word 'pressure' doesn't make people think I mean peer pressure or approval seeking -- it's more that fan dolls fulfill a bit of a different purpose as they are part of an interaction with another artist's work as well as quite possibly the fan community. Or at least, that's how I personally see it.

I do tend to have a similar issue with both OCs and fan dolls however ... wigs! It's always the freaking hair that comes out wrong! *glares at new wig and gnashes teeth*

 

I think I need to explain myself a bit more clear since people keep bringing it up.
I did not say that an artist would never change their character, I said that I do not believe they would do it because it is the easiest way out. Meaning that they would at least try to find another way first. Just as someone who makes a fan doll will do their best to get the doll as accurate as possible.

For some it may be more difficult to make a fan doll and to some the other way around. I believe it depends on the person who makes it. To me it is as hard to shell my OC's as it would be to make a fan doll.

If I would make a fan doll (aaaah, Keith Anyan ) I would not care if other people would recognize him or not. I would make him just for me to appreciate. The majority of people most likely would not recognize him anyway since he is not a very well known character to begin with.
How I felt about the doll would be the most important thing to me. So it would not be any different than when I bring my OC's into 3D.
But that is just me though and I might be alone in this or at least in the minority who feels this way. I think that may be because I do not share my dolls that much yet. I mostly just keep them and their stories to myself. I may feel differently if I start sharing more and get feedback. Who knows? ^^

And gosh yes... wigs are a pain in the behind!

 

I get that, and indeed in the past I've given a lot of thought to how I've wanted characters shelled. However, speaking again for myself, while I don't tend to make changes to OCs on a whim, I do feel that I absolutely have the option if I wish to go there. I don't feel like I have as much of an option with the fan dolls, because I can't rewrite the way that they are supposed to look and they won't be recognizable as who they are.

I think it also depends on the individual character (fan or OC) too -- some are naturally more difficult than others.

I don't know if I explained myself very well on that point -- it was hard to put into words, because I'm not normally all that concerned with how other people feel about my dolls. And indeed, with any doll pleasing myself is my priority. I guess recognizability of a fan doll is kind of feedback or barometer for how well he came out/what changes I might like to make. I already know who the doll is supposed to be, so I might take some things for granted that other people might be quicker to pick up on. In the end it really does just come down to what I want, but what I want in a fan doll is to know that they are a reasonable likeness to the character they are supposed to represent.

I don't know why I didn't just go with a fur one this time around -- I always try fiber for guy wigs and it always bites me in the butt, and I then have to replace the $30 wig. The color was perfect, the cut... not so much.

 

Ah, yes I see! Getting that kind of feedback must indeed be convenient! With my own characters all I have to go on is my own OCD.

All this talk is making me want to create a Keith Anyan chibi. But how to write that into my story? Maybe he could be a persocom that my otaku character made himself as a tribute!
Oh, this is not good... *hears painful cries from his wallet*

(OT, I know how you feel. I tried to commission eyes three times and they still came out wrong. Hoping I have better luck with the wig I commissioned.)

 

Do people seriously do this? Because if so, then that's pretty sad.

my dolls will have personalities and background stories of their own, but I have friends who don't do that with their dolls. I don't think it makes them any less creative. I've actually seen them take amazing pictures of their dolls.

Thinking that having no backstory for a doll makes someone non-creative is just silly.

 

It's like asking someone, "Why do you like purple?"

"Well, I like purple because it's my favorite color."

"What makes purple your favorite color?"

"It's the color of flowers."

"Well, that's lovely, but really... What makes purple so special?"

"... I don't know. It's just something I like."

Preference.

People comment negatively about all kinds of things because they can. If you say something, you might be shot down for it. If you don't say a thing, you might get criticized for not speaking up. It's the quirk of human personalities crashing. It is best to not obsess over such little things. In the end, the only important question is: Do you like what you have created, put together, or brought into your home? If your answer is yes, then what does it matter what others think?

Form a nature of autonomy, make your own decisions, and say screw it to anyone else who gives you grief. It's a hard lesson to learn particularly in your younger years. I know that I've been one to stand up for a cause, then back down from it to hide from the dismay of others - At least, I did that in my youth. *Shrugs.*And if you are persuaded to not like your creation for a while, don't feel ashamed of it either. You'll eventually find your own feet leading you to the path you want to take- doll-wise and other.

 

I think the bigger question is why do some people feel the need to be negative and judge how other people play with their dolls. If they don't like character dolls...they don't have to buy them. If they think dolls needs backstories, then they can make them up for their own dolls. I would never take it upon myself to try to tell someone else how to enjoy their hobby. And I think that kind of attitude can seriously take the joy out of something that should be fun.

 

Apparently, they did a study on why people liked what they liked, and found that we're often not completely on the mark when actually asked to articulate our reasons. Here's the article. I remember posting this on the "What Would Freud Say" thread, also. Not sure it really applies to this topic, but it's still interesting to note, since we're discussing preference a lot here.

 

I think that is VERY strange! There is only one type of character doll I think I'd ever be slightly against. That would be the "look I made random character 678 for Naruto isn't that amazing D: !!!" .... as a professional writer and artist I dislike Mary Sue Characters. I know everyone has made them in there life and sometimes they can be a wonderful jumping off point for an idea but I don't think they should stay around for ever and I really don't believe they should become a doll of any kind. I think people should be more creative any branch if your going to be sending several hundred dollars on a doll.

Other then that, I'm all for it. :3

 

Two things here.

a) Are you defining any OC based in an existing anime universe as a Mary Sue? I'm honestly curious.

and

b) People can do whatever the heck they want, even if it's spending several hundred dollars on making a doll of their anime-canon Mary Sue.

 

Sometimes, a Mary-Sue can change into a very dynamic character. Some writers decide that working with one trait is too difficult, or they want to throw a super-complex curve ball at the character which ends up ending their Mary-Sue-ness.

Other times, people can make once-dynamic characters into Mary-Sues by doing similar things. I'm sure a lot of owners with OCs have had their doll's characters change since they shelled them. It's one thing to imagine the character in your head, and another thing to be able to constantly see the character (as in the doll) in front of you.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if my character was a Mary-Sue or not. I'm not too serious about my doll's stories, so I don't really mind that things might go their way too many times (or vise versa). Not everyone with a doll is going to be so serious about their doll's character or back story. I've seen owners who have super-complex back stories and explanations for every part of their dolls, and I've seen other people who are just happy to have the doll around. There really is no hard and fast rule to back stories or characterization when it comes to BJDs.