Why DO sellers not include paypal fees in prices?

I don't see the point of arguing over something isn't your business. If they want to do it then they will do it. It is a choice between Seller and Buyer. They are well aware of the TOS when they do so and are within their right to pay however much they believe the doll is worth.

To dictate how other people should conduct their business is pretentious and very rude.

 

In my opinion I would not buy from a person who did this. When they sell on Ebay or Etsy they have to pay fees, so why should a buyer have to pay another cost on top of what they are charging for shipping, the item, etc? Paypal has rules and fees. I have seen many people do it anyway-- my advice, don't buy from them.

 

It's rude to obey the law in my country? Wow. Ok.

 

I wouldn't buy from someone who charged paypal fees. I haven't sold anything here on the Marketplace, but I have sold doll stuff through facebook group using paypal, and on ebay, and I have never asked someone for paypal fees or to mark the payment as gift/personal. As a seller I want my buyer to feel confident in everything being above board and that they're fully protected, so I factor the fees paypal and ebay will charge me into my asking price. As a buyer I want to feel that confidence too, but a seller charging me the paypal fees when it specifically goes against the Paypal TOS just seems a bit dodgy to me.

 

It sounds more to me like "expecting others to obey the law is rude" is what was said.

Also, that if someone else DOES break a law, it is none of our business?

 

... which is just kinda silly since in other instances, we clearly do expect others to obey the law (we clearly DO expect not to get mugged every time we step outside our apartments, we DO expect people to obey the law and NOT break into our houses, we DO expect them to obey the law and not just murder us, etc). So if you expect people to obey the law in one instance, why would it be rude to expect them to obey the law in EVERY instance?

I still say: If you want your PayPal fees covered, just include them in the selling price right away.

 

Paypal is a service. If I want to use that service to accept money from someone who's bought something from me, I have to pay for that service. Easy peasy. Paypal is like a bank, sort of, and a lot of banks charge their customers fees. The customers pay it because it is part of doing business with their bank. I really don't understand why so many people don't get this basic principle. If a seller wants to add in PP fees in the total price of the item that's fine. Adjusting prices to cover business costs is common practice. But don't ask your customer/ buyer straight out to pay your banking/ PP fees.

 

Many sellers are actually unaware of the Paypal TOS because they are in a selling environment in which PP fees are regularly added. I usually avoid buying from sellers who charge fees. If it is an item I really want, I let them know that I am an interested buyer but will not risk my Paypal account by paying their fees and thus violating the TOS. I link them to the relevant terms on Paypal's site and let them know that they are also risking their own account because any potential buyer could report them to Paypal for a violation of the TOS. In most cases, they agree to waive the fee because I also do not charge fees. Often the seller is in Asia, where this seems more common. In fact, just recently DollHeart wanted Dollism vendors to add paypal fees to their vendor booth payments because apparently this is done in Hong Kong and they were surprised that we balked at this. I have asked if the ToS is the same in these countries and have been told that it is (I have an inquiry in with Paypal to confirm this) but that all sellers add fees.

In fact, anyone can report a seller for adding fees if they know the paypal address of the seller and have proof of this violation, they don't even have to follow through with the purchase. Doesn't seem worth the cost of an account suspension when one could easily factor all costs (fees, shipping materials, time spent taking photos, writing the listings and waiting in line at the post office, emotional investment in the doll, etc.) into the asking price. I'm not sure why one would choose to look so mercenary when all they have to do is use the dead simple formula of Sale Price - Cost of Goods/Services = Gross Profit.

 

Other than breaking TOS, there are other reasons it's better to just figure up the total amount you want as a seller and list it, than adding all these extra costs and making your buyer figure it up.

When I look at a sales thread, I want to know the total cost of what I'm buying. If they include shipping costs, even better! (Though I realize this will vary depending on what and where you're shipping, and including the price isn't always reasonable.) For example, say I want a certain doll, and there are two listed on the MP. One is $550, total, including everything. The other is $500 + fees + shipping. I know, straight up, that I need to save up $550 for the first one before even contacting the seller. The second, I'm unsure. I could guess....4% fees seems average ($20) and around $25 shipping? Ok, so the second sounds better, since the total would be $5 cheaper than option #1. So I save up $545, contact the seller....and they tell me, no, shipping will be $45, plus an additional $10 for shipping materials and gas to go to the PO and 10% fees of that total. Now, this doll is costing me $605.50. More than the first doll, and $60.50 more than I estimated. Which could mean I need to save for another few weeks, and the seller might not be willing to wait that long. It's an extreme example, but it could happen. And if, after back and forth with the seller figuring out just exactly what the total will be, I realize it's more than I have saved, I could have lost out on the other option, or wasted days communicating with a seller just to say "not interested". And that's annoying to both buyer and seller, as the seller may have rejected other offers, thinking I was going to take the doll. I think it benefits everybody to have very clear terms, with no guessing of prices, listed visibly to ensure a faster, easier transaction for everybody.


It's really not comparable to sales taxes, as you know what sales tax your location charges. In Kentucky, it's 6%. I know, going into a store, that a $9.99 item is going to be $10.59. This is a state law, that consumers pay sales tax. This isn't the store looking for a way around fees for a service. Charging PP fees would be like buying your item that you expect to be $10.59, but when you go to check out, the cashier telling you "It's $10.59, plus 4% credit card fees, plus $1 for me taking time to ring you up and bag your item. Now figure up your total on your own, and pay me that amount." What if you only have $11 in your bank account? Wouldn't you prefer to just see a $12 sticker on it in the first place than estimate wrong and go through all that hassle just to realize you can't buy what you wanted yet anyway?

Sorry for long, overly analytical reply....I tend to overthink things sometimes.

 

I don't think it is ever worth it for a buyer to pay via personal payment (speaking from personal bad experience). Sellers should calculate the fee's themselves and add it to the price if they want their fee's covered. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept and so argued about. I am more than happy as a buyer to pay the fee's, just include it in your price up front. Otherwise I will completely skip sales threads that have "add 4.5% PP fee's" etc.. It shouldn't be my job to find out how much you are selling YOUR item for....

Why MP user's make buyers add paypal fee's? I'm not sure.... Laziness?

 

There IS no good excuse or reason to break the rule and ask for Paypal fees. Period, the end.

If you want to make, for example, $500 on a doll you're selling, and you know Paypal will take a 4% fee out of that money, then MAKE YOUR ASKING PRICE $520. Do not tell the buyer to pay you $500 and add the fees on. Do not tell the buyer that they can get a lower price by not paying your fees if they agree to send you an unprotected personal payment. JUST DO SIMPLE MATH and make your price whatever it needs to be to give you the amount you want to make after your buyer pays you for goods/services and Paypal takes their fee.

I won't buy from anyone who asks for Paypal fees. If they want to avoid a simple math calculation so badly that they're willing to break the TOS of what is essentially an online bank, what other rules might they decide are inconvenient or negotiable after they've got my money? No thanks.

 

I will never ask a buyer to pay these PayPal fees. Simply because I agreed with the terms & conditions of my PayPal account.

 

Personally, I would like to see these added to the MP rules; all payment fees must be included in the asking price and a seller may not ask for personal payment. There is such strong feeling regarding this and there are so many MP rules anyway, the addition of two more makes sense. These two are in place in other fora I am on, and for good reason. It makes their marketplaces safer and happier places to shop in.

In the absence of that, we can just chose to veto sellers that charge separate PP fees or ask for personal payment. It is still a buyer's market and no one can afford to be complacent about a practice that is going to jeopardise their sale.

 

I strongly agree with this suggestion regarding MP rules.

 

Buyers will still buy from sellers who ask for paypal fees, this was how it was done in the past, it was either pay up or lose the doll you've spent months even years looking for. I never minded it, probably because I've been in the hobby for a lot longer then some people.

I do see sellers starting to not include mentioning fees, but I still do see more (Mostly scalpers!) who are asking for it.


If you feel so strongly about this enough to ask the Admin to implement a rule about it, then by all means why don't you start the ball rolling? I'm sure that you'd get a lot of support. (From me included.)
Start with a Poll or something or contact the Modds/Admin with the "Ask the Mods" Subforum.

 

This is a really interesting and timely thread.

 

I never charge paypal fees since I have a paypal account they are taking the money from me to begin with for using their service. I have paid the fee when I buy a doll from the market place if the seller has it written in their description. I guess it is up to the individual.