Why DO sellers not include paypal fees in prices?

This is an expensive hobby and the marketplace aspect of it involves buying, selling and trading expensive items worth hundreds and sometimes even thousands of dollars. It is completely inappropriate to ask for personal payment when you are selling anything. When what you're selling is a collectible or art object worth large sums of money, it is, quite frankly, utter bullshit.

 

I see it as bad business practice, asking to pay extra to save seller from the "loss".
As others said, if you don't want to lose those few dollars, just rise up your selling price.

I also bad a bitter experience with one seller who asked me either to send a "friendly" payment or to send a twice bigger payment as a purchase payment so that I would be protected as a buyer (not on DoA though!). And what looked the most shocking of all was that it was a person with many sales and a very good feedback.

 

The relevant excerpts from the US PP site were posted on page 1 of this thread. I was interested what things might look like in the UK. I could find no reference to a restriction on requesting payments via friends and family. Also, there is no absolute restriction on adding additional fees for using PP. This is presumably because our consumer laws (and probably those in the rest of the EU) wouldn't allow PP to impose those restrictions.

The relevant section.

4.5 Non discouragement. In representations to your customers or in public communications, you agree not to mischaracterise or disparage PayPal as a payment method. You agree that you will only surcharge for the use of PayPal in compliance with any law applicable to you. You further agree that if you do charge a buyer any form of surcharge that you, and not PayPal, will inform the buyer of the requested charge. PayPal has no liability to any buyer where you have failed to inform the buyer of any surcharge. You acknowledge that if you are permitted to surcharge and your further fail to disclose any form of surcharge to a buyer this may constitute a criminal offence by you.

That has absolutely no teeth. And there was nothing else in there that I could find that relates to the discussion, although I would be interested if anyone else finds anything.

Even though adding PP fees to an asking price or asking someone to pay via friends and family don't breach PP's terms in the UK, it doesn't change my view that it is shoddy practice and I would like to see it stop. So, if PP can't stop it, this is even more reason for there to be a rule about it on here. And I generally hate additional rules, but this one seems necessary.

 

I just love how nobody is taking my suggestion to heart, instead using this thread to rant and rave about the "unfair"ness of the being asked/threatened to pay paypal fees.

*Sits down with a large tub of popcorn to watch the drama*

 

I never charge fees. Paypal fees are the price we pay to use paypal's service not something ours to keep. If I'm 100% keen not to lose out on fees I will calculate them myself and then raise the price accordingly instead. What my buyers see is what I want them to pay, no more no less. I find it very sneaky when I'm about to conduct a transaction and just before I sent the money the seller randomly goes 'oh and by the way please send as personal or add fees'. If that was stated in the first place I wouldn't have tried to buy, but if you back away at that point then you can be considered a flaker. It's a horrible move to pull on someone.

 

As was stated here, in this thread:

DoA has made it more than clear, on many, MANY threads, that they will not enforce this rule because it doesn't fall under their control. 'Ranting and raving' about it is literally all we can do, in the hope it educates some people enough to stop them trying it!

 

Lulu: Yes I did read that DoA can't reenforce it. Eventually people will get bored of his thread because it's a subject that comes up every year or so with the same arguments and complaints.

The only thing different about it every year is that it's different people complaining and I am seeing the trend that the worse the economy gets the more people complain about having to pay for these 'asking' fees.

I don't think that some sellers are going to stop at all, no matter how many people complain or how long.
People are going to do what they want, if you are not going to pay for the extra $$ for a BJD, there are 5 others waiting inline behind you who will.

 

Again, it's the same argument as last year's thread.
Did anything change since then? Not much as far as I can see.

DoA can't re-enforce Paypal's TOS here, so people will keep doing what they want weather or not it's braking the PPs TOS agreement.

Your consent harping on "But it's against the TOS!" is rather a moot point unless DoA does implement a rule against it, and they can't.

*Eats popcorn and volley the ball back your way, waiting for the same counter-arguments.*

 

Im usually asked to add on extra if I want to pay as a buyer. But for the last 3 dolls I buy, I sent personal payment because I knew/trusted the seller. When sending a domestic transfer (as in to someone in your country) there aren't fees for personal payment. When sending internationally, they're much lower. For me, international personal payment fee is only .5%. For my most recent purchase, the personal payment fee was $3.00, but it would have been around $30 if sent as a buyer. So I send as personal payment because why not when I trust this person?

I include fees in my calculation for asking price, just like including insurance in the shipping cost.

 

But at least this topic does keep coming up. I'm glad it does. DoA cannot stop sellers from charging those fees, true, but DoA does allow the community to speak their ideas on it, and I think that's something. Maybe a lot of the same things are said again every time a new thread is made, but I don't see why that's a negative, as you seem to be indicating.

Every time this topic is brought up, it has the chance of changing someone's habits, or making someone think, or even just making more people aware, where they may not have been before. People that might not see a thread that was started five or six years ago, might see this one and perhaps in reading it, they may change their ideas. They may not, but... the chance is there.

Myself, I do not like paying a seller's Paypal fees, but I have done so in the past, and would probably do so again in some of those cases.

 

I agree with what's been said about not paying PP fees for buying a doll from a second hand seller(and doll company!)....... and that GOs are the only reason to cover PP fees... but I havent seen anyone mention splits. To me... that's another reason I would cover the PP fees since that money is going to the company and those fees will be taken out when the payments are made to the company. But other than GOs and splits, no I dont think the buyers should have to cover the PP fees. If you want X amount of money... calculate the PP fees and add them into the cost of the item you are selling so you get that X amount of money.

As for harping on people who charge the PP fees.... really it's none of my business unless I want to buy the item they are selling... yes I dont think they should be doing it and is against PPs TOS... but... I'm not their mother/family member etc and cant tell them what to do. If they want to risk their paypal accounts, then it is up to them. Eventually people who get paid via personal payment will get their accounts shut down. I've heard of it happening before. Paypal isnt stupid... if someone is doing it a lot, they will find out.

 

No, no there aren't. The secondhand market has not picked up since the economic slump. Perhaps it never will. Perhaps the bubble has burst. The only things that sell on the MP now are the very cheap or the very rare. Everything else hangs around for weeks, months, until the seller reduces the price.

I don't know why you have an issue with people discussing this. If you have read it all before and are bored of it, why do you keep coming back to this thread? Don't read it. Simple.

 

Perhaps I'm just jaded, I was one of those who cried "It's against the law don't do it" until my face turned blue. The threads on this subject are getting shorter every time I see them which worries me that less and less people are starting to care about it.
The ones that do care, are usually the ones who have to struggle hard to save each penny, or alternatively, the ones who just want to pay as cheaply for their dolls as they can.

Quoting for agreement,

When a seller doesn't say a thing about the fees, it's a positive thing for the buyer. It's one less thing to factor in when thinking about buying a doll.
It's more attractive sale then when your being threatened with the fees if you don't pay through personal payment.
But I don't think that those kinds of sellers will read this thread at all. The only way to make a statement to them is by not responding to their sales threads at all.

 

I have been asked to do this after agreeing to buy, not knowing the seller expected me to pay fees...now that is just wrong.

 

It's not just wrong, it's actually against the rules. As posted by hobbywhelmed on page 3:

Regardless of whether or not it's acceptable to ask buyers to add on Paypal fees, asking them to add it without stating it outright is a violation of the MP rules.

 

Yes, I know...doesn't seem to stop people, and I wanted the item. I should have told the person concerned, as I very nearly did.

 

I seriously dislike it when people ask for PPfees.
It leaves a bitter taste and it takes a piece of joy out of buying things I want to have.
Often I will decline the offer because I don't want to deal with those kind of sellers unless I really have no other option, then I'll pay it.

Personally, I never ever ask for PP-fees, cause I see the "loss" as part of the deal.

And if sellers really want to ask for PPfees just add 4% to the amount you wanted to ask for the item and be silent about the fees.

 

I actually think fewer people are doing it these days. It's possible I've been missing something, but my impression is that three or more years ago it felt like at least two-thirds of sellers wanted fees or personal payments, whereas I think it's fewer than half these days (at least of the listings I'm looking at).

And I don't believe that the people who are primarily the frugal or the cheap - there's a principle involved. I generally choose not to buy from people who charge fees, not because of the cost, but because they're not using PayPal according to the rules which is a suspect way to behave (and that's especially true for people asking for personal payments).