Why DO sellers not include paypal fees in prices?

I don't ask for people to pay and even if people ask me to pay the fees I don't do it. If you want an extra $1.50 for the fees include it in the asking price.

 

I've started to just include the fees into my prices to avoid the kind of pseudo-moral "issue" being tossed around in this thread. If someone decides to pay personal, I refund them the difference. And if a buyer has some issue with the included fees then hey, I'm not the one passing up an item I wanted. So no skin off my back.

To be frank though; You're paying the fee either damn way. I'd rather the seller just be honest with me upfront that they're charging fees then try and hide it into the shipping cost or some shit (which I am 98% of the time overcharged for).

 

I think most people assume that the asking price covers whatever the seller wants (as with some higher-than-retail listings that are clearly meant to cover customs or the like). Similarly, when someone charges a shipping fee that's higher than the amount on the postage, I assume they're covering extras as well - the packing materials, their time getting to the post office. I wouldn't particularly want to see a itemized list of those things, but at least if someone did it they wouldn't be breaking the rules of their escrow service, y'know?

 

I understand that if people offer a choice of paying through PayPal or through bank transfer, the price for the former will be higher (whether they call it a PayPal charge or a bank transfer discount, either way they're covering the loss they'd make on PayPal's fees). I do agree that it is strange to offer only the PayPal option and then charge fees, though. If you'd like payment through PayPal, you might as well incorporate the fees in the asking price.

 

I don't know how it's a moral issue when a bad seller tells you to calculate it yourself, and throws a hissy fit when you accidentally underpay? That's being a rubbish seller. And if a seller overcharged me on shipping without telling me, I'd be on it like a damn rocket and ask why I wasn't notified of these charges, as it would have influenced my decision to buy.

What I see is what I want to pay. If I DO have to pay fees, at least tell me WHAT I'm paying, and give a total amount so I, the buyer, know the amount of money you, the seller, expect to receive. As above, a seller threw a hissy fit at me when I accidentally underpaid by 8 cents, and told me that she graciously 'allowed' me to keep the 8 cents, instead of harassing me about it and not sending the $400+ doll I paid for. Classy!

At the end of the day, it's what the buyer thinks is acceptable for that particular doll. Most of the time though, the sale price is the value I feel acceptable, and adding fees takes that value to overpriced for what it is. Added to which, I have never (!) seen on this forum a price + ppfees to be cheaper than a price including ppfees. Am I being cheap for picking the best deal for me? nope :3

 

I just factor them into whatever price I am asking, so the fees never come up as an issue. I have had a few people pay by personal payment via paypal (not at my request I might add) but that was only on small items which I don't bother factoring fees into. I don't feel it's right for any seller to actually outright ask for a buyer to pay their fees and the simplest way of avoiding any issues is to factor the fees into the total selling price. If the fees aren't brought up by either party and the buyer pays for the item at the listed cost then I don't see an issue.

 

I am one of those buyers who refuses to buy from sellers who charge fees on top of the listing price (especially when they're being rude about it, I saw a listing the other day that interested me, but the seller had a statement under "payment info" that blatantly said "YOU are responsible for 4% paypal fee, not me, do not try to tell me otherwise, all PMs lecturing me about this will be ignored!". Fastest turnoff of a possible buy ever) and who does not ever charges fees herself. I much more appreciate it if the fees are calculated into the asking price already, although for some reason prices that have the fees tagged onto them to the very last cent so the total is something like $519,67 or something irk me too, that just feels really greedy. I know full well how annoying it is to NEED to make some money by selling a doll and then have to immediately surrender 20 dollars of those $500 to paypal, but that's how it is.

The major issue I have with people charging fees is not even so much that it costs me extra money, but it's the fact that I'm forced to make one of 3 choices neither of which are particularly beneficial to me:

-pay the fees and in doing so assist in breaking Paypal's TOS i.e. in doing something illegal

or

-pay by Personal payment which means I forfeit my buyer protection and I'm screwed if something goes wrong (and since I'm in the Netherlands Personal payment also comes with 3 or so % in fees if I'm correct)

or, the one that irks me most

- if I decide I don't want either of the above I am automatically excluded from half the Marketplace.

That has nothing to do with entitlement or being elitist btw like someone suggested, I hate that those words even got thrown into this discussion in the first place since it's not about that, it's about having a fair chance at taking part in trading in the Marketplace and not getting punished for trying to stick to the rules.

 

I haven't sold much but I generally never ask for pp fees... either I make up for it increasing the price slightly or I deal. I agreed to use pp as it is a convenient form of payment so I'm not going to request these fees from someone else because that's my preference for payment. I don't particularly see the issue. Either state it on your thread or don't. I don't think this should be a factor in determining whether a seller is "good" or not.

 

To sell the item for the price i want for it, i make sure my orginal price is part of it.

If i'm just selling one item, i tend to also include shipping and insurance. with the purchase price.

So it's quick and simple.

When i have lots to sell If anything ends up over 50.00 i will weight their package, and ask them for that shipping cost. since it always depends.
I also ask if they want insurance, which they cover.

I will never accept a "gift payment" and i'll offer to pay the fees if i really want something so i dont have to give them a gift payment. Because if something goes wrong or they do not ship, or say they dont recieve their item or i recieve mine. then there is no course of action.
You can not get your money back with paypal if you didn't recieve your item and the person bailed. and wont talk to you.

Gift option should only be used if you know the person in my honest opinion. Like when your right next to someone at a convention and you have the doll or whatever your getting in hand.

 

In reality, Paypal gives the seller the option of himself bear the costs of the installments fees or pass these costs on to the buyer. I informed myself about this because I was thinking of opening a shop on Etsy.
Either way the buyer will pay the fees, which were embedded in the product price or not. Pass rates for the customer becomes a more transparent way of sales because the customer is aware of everything he are paying. But the scares with the final product price are inevitable. I think the stores should warn about these fees upfront.

 

After paying for an item with paypal and seeing how much paypal would charge the seller, I have gone ahead and sent the seller another payment to cover the fees but those sellers never asked for it. However a seller demanding that I pay the 4% rubs me the wrong way and there is no way in HELL I would ever send a personal payment to someone I didn't know personally. I too wish DOA would make a rule saying that sellers would have to add the fees into the price of the doll and not be able to ask for personal payments. Maybe the buyers should start reporting the sellers who are breaking Paypal's TOS.

 

I never charge PP fees for anything. Frankly, I believe that it's simply the cost of doing business and should be absorbed by the seller, regardless of what PayPal's ToS are. Forget the rules, it's a principle thing. Operating costs are the responsibility of the merchant, not the customer. If the fees are of concern to the seller, then the price should be adjusted to account for fees so the seller can then meet their desired target return. It's just as if you opened up an online store and used that store's processing system, or opened up a brick and mortar shop and accepted credit cards (which, by the way, just like with PayPal's ToS, passing credit card fees onto the buyer is also against the merchant agreements provided by credit card companies). The prices you set should account for all of your operating costs including hosting, monthly service fees, and so on. Processing fees are a reality of business, even if it's only conducting sales through an online forum without a storefront, that a seller should be responsible for, not a buyer. If sellers don't want to be charged fees, then they should accept cash only and hope that they'll find buyers willing to take on that risk.

 

When I sell something in the U.S., everything is included. PayPal fees, Ebay fees, shipping fees, tracking, insurance. It's EASIER to do it that way, is what kills me. Writing all that pseudo-legalese and making your buyers do math is such a turnoff. My item may be $7 more, but having everything included kind of shouts, "hey, look at me, I'm easy to deal with". I only buy from sellers who work the same way.

Now, when I sell internationally, I have to get a separate quote for shipping and insurance. The buyer pays shipping while I cover the insurance. That's fair.

 

Whoa. It seems like alot of sellers have business ethics mixed up. If you're trying to sell something, your buyers are like your customers. They will be the ones giving you money for your goods. I've seen too many sellers acting like they're doing buyers some sort of special favor just by selling them a doll. If money is trading hands, I feel like a more professional businesslike demeanor should be used.

I don't agree with extra hidden PayPal fees after sale has started myself. I too feel like they should either be absorbed by the seller or already calculated into the list price. But the only way it's going to change is if people stop agreeing to pay the fees. DoA has already said they aren't going to make it an official rule, so that's all that can be done. If the sellers who don't include all fees in the list price stop finding buyers, they'll eventually have to change their practices. But as long as there are people who will pay extra for fees, there will be sellers who will continue to ask for said fees. It sucks because I know sometimes we really really want an item, but if we agree to paying extra fees, then that seller will continue to ask for them in the future.

 

I have absolutely no issue with paying Paypal fees. I haven't really purchased any accessories for my dolls from private sellers, but I have purchased anime/manga/cosplay items like that.

Sellers who charge Paypal fees on the livejournal group I buy things from are pretty upfront when they do charge fees. They have a section either at the beginning of the sales section or at the end explaining that fees will be payed by the client and sometimes they say that they cover fees. The former is much more common, however.

I have gotten requests from people there to pay via gift to avoid fees, but I never do that. I simply pay normally and cover the fees without being told to do so. I don't like doing gift payments, especially from sellers I am unfamiliar with.

I understand why people would have an issue with it if the person isn't upfront about it from the beginning, but in my experience most people are. And I generally assume that Paypal fees might be necessary whenever I buy something from a private seller, so it's not really a shock even when they aren't upfront about it.

 

Nope. It's against Paypal's ToS to get your buyers to pay the fee. The only time Paypal has that option is when paying as a gift option which shouldn't be encourage as you cannot file a claim if the person scams you.

 

Exactly. Vote with your feet.

 

I never charge Paypal fees as those charges are just part of doing business. I will charge a flat rate for shipping & if it's under that by several dollars, I'll refund the difference. If it's over, then I simply absorb the cost.

I also tend to stay away from sellers who charge Paypal fees. Grow up! Doing business is going to cost money. Whether it's an actual store, a mobile credit card reader, selling at a show or Paypal, it always costs something. If folks can't simply absorb the fees then they know nothing about business & should perhaps get out of the selling game. Sorry to be so hard a** about it but it's really a personal peeve of mine.