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Severe ongoing issues and concerns with Dollshe Dollshe Ban

Why Resin?

Mar 2, 2011

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    1. WHAT?! No they don't! And, no you don't! All of my current resin dolls are more than 5 years old and NONE of them have "yellowed significantly"! I bring them outside occasionally for meets and pictures, and they sit on a shelf in my bedroom the rest of the time (when I'm not sewing for them, that is). I handle them often, without worrying about my hands, and I clean them with a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser about once a year or so (unless they look dirty). Yes, all of them have mellowed in tone over the years, but it's nothing super noticeable! I even have one that's considered a "beauty green" doll from Luts, but even he's not GREEN green!
      And I would NEVER pay to exchange them! They are who they are and there is nothing wrong with them! Granted, the texture of my first doll is very very smooth now, but I think it's more from handling than it is from anything else. If I was really worried about her texture, I'd spray her with MSC, but I like her the way she is! She still doesn't feel a thing like vinyl!

      Oh my, I'm sorry if I sound upset, but just the idea of the minor color difference in my dolls since I got them and now causing me to say "oh well, time for a new one" really threw me for a loop.

      *would also like to mention that my vinyl dolls are all stained like you wouldn't believe, even after being coated in MSC, whereas the only mark on any of my resin dolls is from the black wig one of them has been wearing for 4 years and even that is only noticeable if you take off the wig and look for a mark*
       
      #41 Fangtasia, Mar 4, 2011
    2. Huh? Where are you getting that? I have dolls that are five years old -- heck one of my second hand Volks girls is probably closer to ten, and they haven't lost their resin feel nor do they feel anything like vinyl. They aren't even badly yellowed. The color change that is there is very even and doesn't look bad at all. You can sand a doll to remove yellow, but it's only a temp fix, and IMO unnecessary the vast majority of the time. Nor would I exchange any of my dolls -- there's no need! With proper care, they will continue to look lovely for years to come.
       
      #42 Taco, Mar 4, 2011
      • x 1
    3. Agreed! But when ordering (other than one of the ready made costumed ones), that detail is optional - look under customizing. Personally, I'd not select that option. :blush

      *********************

      As beautiful as these are, the artist herself points out that, once fired, no further changes are possible. So, unlike our beloved resin BJDs, there can be no individual customizing after manufacture. Flip side, they last forever, barring breakage.

      Which is what the OP was mainly concerned with - not our personal preferences for vinyl vs resin, but her misperception that vinyl was somehow more "archival" than resin, which it definitely is not. Over time, resin will change less than vinyl, and porcelain will outlast both.
       
      #43 kcurry9, Mar 4, 2011
    4. I have both vinyl and resin BJDs, and I find that there are advantages to both.

      My vinyl girls pose well (and they're OT American BJDs) and are lighter in weight, so I like to carry them around and show them off. My resin girls are lovely, too. They also pose equally well, but are heavier.

      Any doll material can break down under the weight of entropy. Early Barbie dolls are often Greasy-faced or sticky. I have some older dolls with vinyl and plastic parts, and over time the vinyl reacted with the plastic to create weird melty areas.

      I also have old or even antique dolls in vinyl and rubber that are nearly perfect. None of my resin dolls has yellowed (so far) but I have seen some photos of dolls with severe, spotty sun damage. I've also seen some that have "yellowed" to a gorgeous color, and done so evenly.

      Basically, I say get the dolls you like regardless of who makes them and what materials they're made of. When I have my BJD girls on display, no one can tell which ones are resin and which ones are vinyl unless they know the sculpts in advance.
       
      #44 FairyKukla, Mar 4, 2011
    5. I... what? o.O
      My oldest doll is 5 years old and his resin is still very much the exact same resin texture as my newer dolls, resin can go a little shiny from being handled too much but I've never encountered one that felt like vinyl. And yellowing is subject so many different factors. Said older doll is barely yellowed at all, my only doll with significant yellowing is my french resin narae who's almost as old but that was entirely expected since french resin is more prone to it but she isn't even 'yellow' her tan mellowed to a gorgeous colour that I wouldn't change for anything so really.. where on earth did you hear that?
       
      #45 River, Mar 4, 2011
      • x 1
    6. I like resin, because it is so warm, when you touch it!
       
      #46 solymar, Mar 4, 2011
    7. Tee hee, Silk, sorry, I didn't mean to sound hissy! Just one of those forehead slapping moments where you think "Doh, I didn't mean THAT!" Maybe I could have worded it better ;)

      I was meaning that an amazing amount of time has to go into sculpting and engineering every piece of a BJD, resin or OOAK. Vinyl lends itself to mass production but the moulds used for resin are usually limited useage, they have to be remade eventually. Add to that the whole humidity problem when it comes to getting the resin to set, I don't think that these artists are choosing resin just because it's a fad, as mused on by Alessi: "a "fashion" thing--a BJD is, by unspoken definition, made of resin, so all the companies make resin dolls". I just think that Resin has qualities that you just can't beat, right now at least, that make these dolls as lovely, lifelike and desirable as they so obviously are.

      And FairyKukla has a good point, Vinyl melts when it's left in contact with other forms of plastic for any length of time. Try collecting fashion dolls from the 60's to the 80's and you will be hard pressed to find one without the tiniest hint of melting where the joints of different plastics touch. And then there's the staining issue, I recently bought an off-topic vinyl doll out of nostalgia as I used to collect this particular girl and had always wanted this edition but never managed to buy her. I got this brand new, NRFB home and lo and behold, it was badly stained from the black outfit it was wearing... never even been out of the box! If that was a resinoid I could have sanded her if the trusty Magic Sponge had failed :(

      I'm sticking with resin!
       
      #47 vonbonbon, Mar 4, 2011
    8. I like the weight of resin and the texture. It's such a nice feeling it's kind of weird but I really like it :) Plus I like how it looks.

      PLUS. IT DOES NOT STAIN AS EASILY AS VINYL.
      And you can string the pieces together with elastic rather than a skeleton, which I like better. :)
       
      #48 muzikluvr, Mar 4, 2011
    9. I've not had any vinyl BJDs and really like the way my resin dolls feel in my hand. Resin does also seem to hold the details of the mold very well. I have other resin collector's dolls as well and feel the same. I have heard about the possible yellowing and hope that by storing them out of direct sunlight I will prevent this from happening.

      Interesting topic!
      Lana
       
      #49 *optimism*, Mar 4, 2011
    10. Everything that you have written above is incorrect, with the single exception of the fact that fresh resin - like ANY fresh plastic - does indeed tend to have a strong odor, because it is still curing and thus still off-gassing. However, it has been my experience that resin will still have that same odor over seven years after it was first cast (my oldest doll was cast in 2003). The off-gassing continues, it simply lessens. Take a resin doll that's a few years old, box it up for a few weeks or a month, and when you open the box you will smell the resin because the fumes will have been contained in the box and not have been able to dissipate into the air as they would have if the doll had been out on display.

      The texture of resin when initially pulled from the mold is determined by the type of mold release used in casting and the internal finish of the actual mold itself, not by how "fresh" the resin is. Newly-cast resin dolls can be very smooth, even shiny, if the inside of the mold used to make them was very smooth. Any texture changes that properly cured resin undergoes are the direct result of outside action. For resin to become more smooth than it was when initially cured, it either has to be heavily handled (the repeated wear from human hands and the friction at the joints as they move will smooth the resin to some extent, but this is not usually significant except in that the joints can lose some of their "tooth" and not grip as well, so they may need sueding) or sanded by the owner. Of course, it will also change texture if you do something like let it sit in pure acetone, but that's because doing so melts it.

      As for the rest of that - it's pure hogwash. Resin does not "somewhat transform to vinyl feel" over time. As far as I know, it is not possible to make resin "somewhat transform to vinyl feel," except perhaps by submerging it in a chemical solution such as acetone for extended periods of time. Resin, like all plastics, will change color over time, but unlike other plastics resin tends to stabilize after a certain point, and barring exposure to extreme conditions will stop changing color once that point has been reached. Also, the color change in resin is usually very even. This color change is partially the result of the aging of the resin itself, but is mostly due to the decomposition of the pigments used to tint it to different colors. One of the most unstable pigments is red, which is why many pink-toned dolls tend to lose some of their "pinkness" over the years. This is often referred to as "mellowing," because they're not actually turning yellow, they're just losing some of their original pink/red pigment, which makes any other pigments that were used to color the resin more apparent. Some red pigments can decompose (usually because of direct and/or prolonged exposure to sunlight or heat) so much that they are essentially no longer present, but that is not the norm, and does not happen with all resin/pigment mixtures. A vinyl doll kept in the same conditions as a resin doll will always fair worse over time, with the possible exception of a few particularly volatile mixtures of tan resin, which turn green if exposed to direct UV radiation. (The tan dolls in question were made using a pigment mixture with a very unstable red pigment, which breaks down in direct sunlight and leaves only the counter pigments behind, resulting in the "greening" of the resin. However, this color change is easy to avoid simply by limiting or preventing extended direct exposure to strong light sources.)

      I do not know of any companies that allow people to pay to "exchange" their aged resin dolls for new replacements. Some do sell replacement or optional parts, and a very few don't openly sell replacement parts but will allow people to buy them if they beg a bit and can prove (via pictures) that their doll has been damaged. But I have never heard of a doll company letting people exchange their old dolls (for a fee or other wise). If someone wants to "exchange" their doll for a newer one, they have to sell the old one on the secondary market and purchase the new one.
       
      #50 Kiyakotari, Mar 6, 2011
    11. I am sure the debate will always rage on and that is why there are so many dolls out there for everyone to love. We can all find the ones for us.

      I love my Toph (my one resin girl), but prefer the feel of vinyl and adore the internal skeletons of the DDs and Obitsus. I love everything about them. I know I am in the minority and that is okay. I can appreciate where everyone is coming from and respect the opinions.

      However, in no way do I think one is better or worse than the other. Just a little different and that is great. It would be boring if we all liked the exact same thing.
       
      #51 Misheru, Mar 6, 2011
    12. ooooh, but just the touch of resin is divine! :aheartbea
       
      #52 Blablette, Mar 9, 2011
    13. I dont think i even have to add on to this debate. My answers are in here 3 times over. Yes its an expensive medium, but the standard is set and either we can enjoy our bjds or curse them. =S
       
      #53 racoondevil, Jul 14, 2011
    14. Another point in favor of resin - it is relatively cheaper to mold and cast and the resin and silicon is not hard to obtain so many small companies can start up and produce their own work.

      Manifacturing in vinyl would be much more cost prohibitive (I am not sure exactly how it is cast but I know many plastics use steel injection molds that can cost many tens of thousands of dollars) and necessitate more in the way of "mass production" as opposed to BJDs that are generally in smaller runs or limited editions. It also allows for much more detailed casting so works better as a medium for sculptors interested in producing many different sculpts :)
       
      #54 sistinas, Jul 14, 2011

    15. Yeah, that's the real answer to the whole thing there. People can talk all the want about look & feel or whatever, but 98% of the use of resin is that it's worlds easier to mold and requires very little equipment. There are other materials that would work, even hard plastics like what 1/6 military figures are made of, and vinyl can certainly hold impressive detail, as evidenced by many PVC anime figurines, but nothing's as easy or as cheap to produce as resin. (Of course, it's only "cheap" because of numbers, the situation would turn around if there were tens of thousands of a mold made, instead of hundreds.)
       
      #55 cosplayshots, Jul 14, 2011
    16. My vinyl Volks DDs are stain bait as much as I love them.....

      Not to say that resin doesnt stain either but I've not had as much problems with my SDs compared with running through an entire tub of Remove Zit
       
      #56 arrex, Jul 14, 2011
    17. There are some differences between them, but one is not better than the other. On Vinyl posing... Vinyl dolls do not necessarily 'pose better' than resin. Actually I find their range in motion and actual poses they can get into to be rather limited. Extremely limited actually, and they don't have the liberty of being able to pop joints whenever they please to get into a particularly difficult position. It actually makes traveling with say a dollfie dream more difficult because I cannot fold one the way I could a resin into a bag that is too short for her to stand/lay in. My Dollfie Dream is also physically incapable of sitting up with her legs outstretched in front of her, something most other dolls can do really easily. HOWEVER they can hold a pose for almost forever. You can "set it, and forget it" as that popular infomercial goes. :lol:

      And there's that pesky staining issue... vinyl doll will stain far far worse and far far more easily and quickly than a resin will yellow. And it's not like one could just MSC the body to limit staining, no that would be far too easy. Sadly, a lot of sealants react oddly with softer vinyl leaving nasty sticky residue rather than a protective surface. Body stockings help but even then pigments can still migrate. Staining is just as inevitable as yellowing. And all plastics yellow over time.

      Weight and warmth... I think that resin does have a nice weight to it. But it's not so nice if you plan on carrying it for extended period of time. Part of why I like my DD is that she's an SD sized doll that weighs as much as, if not less than, a YoSD. But there are times were I find that she's too light. I think that both vinyl and resin can absorb human warmth but resin does seem to hold onto it longer- it also takes much longer for it to absorb warmth too though. However I'd be a little more wary with exposing my DD to too much heat. I also worry more about her body changing shape over a long period of time as I've had other 'soft' plastic figures do to me before. I don't have to worry as much about my harder resin girls.

      Also consumer price. Some vinyl dolls are cheaper than their resin counterparts. Some are not. A super special limited Soom fullset may set you back a grand. A super special limited Volks DD could do just the same. In fact some limited DD's are going for far more than other limited resin sculpts. I'm sure some Barbies and other fashion dolls are the same way.

      Both resin and vinyl have their pros and cons. Really it comes down to personal preference. I have both and I like both. Both are beautiful, both are good at posing- though in different ways, both are susceptible to degregation- resin does have the reputation of holding up better, and both keep me happy. My SO still asks me every now and then who's my favorite and I still answer that it's my Dollfie Dream. :)
       
      #57 Ezekely, Jul 14, 2011
    18. But not the only answer. If artists wanted a cheaper option, they could've gone for porcelain dolls. Or make OOAK artist doll made from clay. They chose resin. Money probably was a motivation, but I'm certain there were more.
       
      #58 Silk, Jul 15, 2011
    19. Just a few other points...

      Obitsu has been around a lot longer than many people think. Who do you think Volks got the DDII skeleton from? ;) Dolly wars part one. haha

      Obitsu casts their molds in resin first and then in vinyl. It is a longer, moire expensive process up front. I am guessing Volks probably does the same.

      Personally, I prefer the touch and feel of vinyl, especially Dollfie Dreams. They also warm (as much as resin in my personal experience) and the vinyl is so smooth and silky...very skin like. Plus, their body sculpts are amazing. Obitsu has some of the most beautiful realistic face sculpts I have seen.

      Painting on vinyl is much easier, IMHO. But everyone has his/her own opinion and I think it tends to depend on your style.

      That is why there are so many options. We all like something different. That way we all get to see more dolly beauty!
       
      #59 Misheru, Jul 15, 2011
    20. So far I only have an OrientDoll, who of course is resin. He's gorgeous, i swear, I can't keep my hands off him! The feel of the material is amazing, I'd never seen or felt a bjd in real-life before him and now I have I'm not going back. Heck, just reading the posts makes me pick him up and feel him even more! :D

      I do have an off-topic vinyl doll on the way (Obitsu) but honestly, I don't expect the same feel...
       
      #60 BirdSeed, Jul 15, 2011
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