Would still buy a doll if the artist required a contract?

I understand wanting to maintain artist integrity but the beauty of this hobby seems to be the freedom (within reason) and customization of these beautiful dolls. As long as the person always credits the original maker/artist, it should be all good.

However, perhaps if it is a very limited, and special, doll (say 20-50 or less) then I would understand more. In the vinyl toy world a lot of artists customize vinyl toys and you buy it as is - you do not customize that art piece yourself unless you want to purchase a blank one but usually that isn't always for sale or available.

 

I personally would not do business with that artist if they had such stipulations with their dolls. I personally got into the hobby for the freedom it offers with customizing your doll to your tastes. I'd also hate feeling like I had a doll that looked like every other doll made by that artist. It wouldn't feel as special or personal to me.

 

For this particular case, yes, I would still by a doll from this artist agreeing to all her terms if I really like her work. All my dolls are in their original accessories, they are full set dolls in box with papers. Some still have original hot glued eyes. I only have 1 hybrid - Olivia Morgan, Volks head and Sadol body. When sold, they will be sold as full sets with no splits. Olivia came to me as a head and will leave as a head.

I totally understand this artist’s terms and conditions and why she requires a contract. I am not willing to explain in this forum my reasons for agreeing with those terms. However, what I can say is that for non BJDs, especially vintage/antique dolls, we are not to modify, repaint, split, reroot hair, or throw away the old clothes. However, this is the BJD hobby, so the rules do not apply although I’ve applied the rules on my dolls. I am open to custom faceup if the original work got damaged or not to my liking. But generally, I buy a doll in full set if I like every aspect of it. I will not mod or split afterwards.

It also depends on the dolls, my resin boys team guard their original boxes and accessories gelously, all of them are Volks loyalists. Only Olivia is a hybrid, she could care less about loyalty to her maker as long as she looks beautiful. she wants Iplehouse body with either large or glamour bust, serious modding is required for her head to go on the body. I cannot do it but I am open to the idea.

 

Interesting. I didn't think I'd see anyone agree with her, especially since she's not offering limited fullsets but rather blank heads. A little disappointing that you don't want to explain why since I'd be interested in hearing the other side(non-customization contract side) which there doesn't seem to be much of at the moment but to each their own I guess.

 

I don't plan to customize but I would have a hard time agreeing to a contract like that. For one thing it seems unpleasant and if I'm going to spend this kind of money on a doll, I really want to have a good experience and not think of someone being unpleasant every time I look at the doll. I have a high stress job and this is my retail therapy - if the artist is unpleasant to me it's not therapy. My favorite art and custom jewelry pieces are from artists who were really amazing to work with and I think about them every time I look at the art or wear the piece of jewelry. I also wouldn't want to be so limited in case I did decide to customize eventually.

 

"In this particular case"...I still do not know what special doll and artist this is all about. And why she did not simply choose another medium of doll, but a BJD, which is created to be changed and customized to its owner' wishes and dreams. If you are happy to leave the doll in the state she is in, that is fine. But what if you have to sell this doll, because you need the money due to circumstances beyond your control? And the next owner does not want that look or even just the eyes or wig the doll is wearing?

We are not to this or that - this is similarly ridiculuos to me as to mourn over a d BJD's joints. If you generally do not like them (sure there are better or worse looking joints), get yourself a statue. Period.

If you want to understand the exception in this particular case, then please explain the situation.

 

It is an interesting concept. I would not buy a doll with such a contract - in fact I struggle to think of any inanimate thing that I would buy if the contract made me the custodian of the piece, rather than the owner, free to do with it as I wish. I have some sympathy if the artist objects to dolls that carry her signature but no longer look as perfect as when they left her hands, but the BJD hobby is quite a small world, and most people in it are more than capable of evaluating a face up or change of costume and distingushing original from modification (and choosing the one they prefer). If it is more that her dolls are not holding their value on the secondary market and the contract is an attempt to limit reselling in order to protect her own sales I have very little sympathy.

 

Hey, if an artist wants to make sure their work isn't altered or destroyed (whatever that entails, in their minds), that's their business. If you don't want to buy it--don't! I don't see that this is a big deal at all. It's their business what they want to do. Why should anyone else care about their rate of sales or if they are alienating customers? It's not anyone else's business.

If someone wants to buy the doll knowing the artist wishes to keep it unmodified, that's also their business and not anyone else's. It seems simple to me, and not controversial at all.

If I wanted the doll enough, and wanted it as the artist wished it to look like and remain, then I'd buy it. If I wanted to just modify the heck out of it and post images all over, I'd not buy it, out of respect for the artist.

The issue of whether the artist can sue or enforce such contracts is a separate one.

I do think it's rude of someone to buy a doll and modify it if the artist has made it known that they wished their dolls not to be modified. Of course, all kinds of people don't care about being rude these days. It's all about what they want and they don't care about how anyone else feels. Whatever. It's up to the individual.

If the artist was able to sue, then I wouldn't cry about it, because people obviously know what they were getting into with that artist!

 

Well, if it remains that one artist - fine. But just imagine if other companies had the same idea. Wouldn't that be totally contrary to the idea of BJDs? Or even if only other artists wanted that their dolls remain totally unaltered?

I think this would, on the long run, ruin the speciality of BJDs - the basically blank canvas, where companies offer with their fullsets only one possibility your doll can be. Where it is no problem if you want to go for something completely different.

I do not think this idea of many different interpretation of the same sculpt is disrespectful to doll manufacturers. Quite the contrary, what this artists demands is disrespectful to BJD enthusiasts. If it were not for the customizability of BJDs, I would not be interested in dolls at all. If they have to stay the way they are, I could also collect Barbies (nothing against Barbies).

And in the end, the many shades and colours of the BJD hobby as it is now would die. Is this what we want? If he or she is successful, other companies will follow. Most BJD companies listen to what theír customers want.

 

I agree, if it's one crazy person who doesn't understand the hobby and nobody buys their product then fine, it's just an oddity. If on the other hand other companies start to think it's a good idea it would become a real problem. When microtransactions first appeared in video games there was this attitude of "oh, well it's only on stupid free to play cellphone games here and there, it wont affect anything" but only a few years later they've crept into every corner and nearly destroyed the hobby.

 

I think its almost impossible to hold someone to this. As stated multiple times there are not any actual laws that cover toys. At the end of the day that is what a doll is, its a toy. Sure an artist can express a desire to leave their dolls untouched...but what legal right do they have to pursue any sort of reimbursement if I decide I want to make my doll neon pink with horns? I have already paid them what they believe to the value of their doll.

Any sort of contract would have to be signed. If the artist were to simply mail out a COA that said "You're not allowed to mod the doll I made" All I would have to do is not sign it...and I couldn't be held liable. If they had some sort of silly clause "by purchasing this doll you agree not to mod/manipulate/etc" then I could simply have someone else buy it and then buy it second hand...I would not be agreeing to such 'purchase agreement' as I did not purchase the doll from the artist. Further more legal standing is almost impossible to uphold when dolls end up in different places where the laws are different. For example, the reason copies are so popular and produced is some countries literally do not give a crap about copyright. Thats right. There are countries were even if you have a copyrighted symbol there is -nothing- you can do about it. They can paint it all over whatever they want and you are absolutely helpless. They can copy your own device production and offer it at a fraction of the price and there is absolutely nothing you can do.

By all means an artist is entitled to run their business however they see fit. They can try to put whatever stipulations they want on their dolls...I just wouldn't buy from them. If I truly wanted the sculpt I would wait until I found it cheap on the secondhand market.

 

One person is not going to ruin the hobby! If the people in the hobby all decide to sign contracts and never mod anything, then maybe that will become common, but in what weird world will this ever happen? People like having the ability to do what they want. Some buy art objects and never mod, but others will not be interested in that--period!

If we are all for doing what we want, that includes having artists and buyers do what they want, too. We "vote" as buyers by buying what we like. If we don't want to keep items as the artist made them, we don't buy from that person--or we do and just ignore them (if you are that kind of person). But having freedom goes for letting others do what they like, too, you know.

There are dolls out there that are regarded as art objects, such as the dolls by Marina Bychkova. They are sold in galleries and cost a lot of money. They are not the type of doll you buy to mod! You CAN, of course, but it would be like wanting to paint over someone's artwork. If you don't like that whole idea--you obviously don't buy one. But other people would LOVE to buy one and treasure it as is.

Meanwhile, in our bjd world, everything out there is open for you to mod away as you wish! Why worry about the folks who would prefer to keep their dolls as art objects when it's SO not the case that this is ever going to take over the hobby?

I have many dolls I keep as full-sets. I LIKED them as fullsets and bought them for that reason. I have other dolls I bought blank. I happen to LIKE having the variety and the choice. I really like the artistic vision of others, sometimes. I'm an artist, myself (not dolls, though), and that doesn't keep me from appreciating the art of others. But of course, everyone has their own tastes.

 

As Marina Bychkova's extremely beautiful and elegant dolls are made of porcelain, you can't argue with them here. Being porcelaine dolls not to be meant to be customized, they are of course a different kind of doll.

Maybe it is possible that resin can be treated in a similar way to be unchangeable? E.g. by no sealing the resin so that you can't take the faceup off? Colours which cannot be removed? Eyes which are fixed? Sew the doll into its clothes instead of making them removable?

As a consequence, doesn't such a requirement even make the dolls of this artist even kind of off topic for this forum?

Personally, I think it would be a good idea to include into the rules of On Topic "made to be customized".

Because even it is a Volks fullset, you are allowed to remove all the items which came with the doll and give it a completely different look. You are allowed, but you have also the freedom to keep the doll as it is.

In that situation (and with any other fullset doll), the choice is yours. With that artist, it is not. Period.

What if the faceup needs to be refreshed? Are you then legally obliged to send it back to the artist to have it remade?

Of course, if I do not like these stipulation, I do not buy the doll. But what if I loved the sculpt and it perfectly fitted my particular character? Break the law?

 

I think we are mixing several different things. This really leads to nowhere.

Maybe it would be more customer-friendly to politely ask your customer not to change the doll? I do not know, I also do not care whether this contract can be enforced legally or not. Its mere existence annoys me.

Anyways, I am out of this discussion.

 

No. Just no. I mean I'm an artist and would be mad at anyone destroying one of my works, but this isn't destruction. Like previously said; this hobby thrives on the freedom to create! As a sculptor you should understand that things might change and you can't lash out at your customers. If it were an OOAK art doll, fine I get it, but these aren't. Sure they aren't "mass produced" but they aren't one of a kind either. But that's just my two cents.

 

im rather torn on this one here. on the one hand, i totally see why someone would not want anyone to 'destroy' or 'pull apart' their work.
however, these are bjds and a large majority of the people of this hobby see themselves as creators or artists and these dolls are their way of creating art.
to me, it would be sad to see so many of the same thing, what makes this hobby great and interesting is to see what so many individuals do with the same sculpt- i find it inspiring.
but thats just me, i'd personally not buy from someone who is very passionate about their dolls being untouched, because why sell them to anyone if it's never going to be truly their own.

 

I'm not a doll artisan, but once upon a time, I sold art commissions. Honestly, after you pay me, I don't care if you throw the drawing away, color over it, sell it, trade it, gift it, EAT IT. It's yours! Enjoy! Have fun! I got paid.

I understand that some artists might feel differently, and they do have every right to express their opinions on the matter. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not actually sure how enforceable that is after the sale, but I'm sure there are a lot of people in the hobby that are completely fine with not hybriding, modding, etc. because those activities simply weren't part of their plans for the doll to begin with. I personally don't care to hybrid or mod resin dolls. I'm into the customization aspect on some off-topic dolls, but when it comes to resin, I MAYBE will want a new faceup. Other than that, I'm just here to play dress up.

 

I really can't imagine such a contract being enforceable, in the way it's been described here. As others have pointed out, there are the issues of international law, repair modifications, second-hand ownership, debate over where the line falls between "customizing" and modifying, etc etc etc...

I definitely understand having hurt feelings if someone modified a doll you made, because it could be taken to mean they didn't think your creation was good enough... But as a business model, it doesn't make sense. Once the product has been bought, the purchase is done and it's out of your hands. That's the contract. VARA only comes into play in the cases @KlanceKlanceRevolutn quoted in post #3: authorship (if someone is plagiarizing or counterfeiting your designs) and reputation/honor (they're somehow dragging down your brand name by associating your designs with illegal or immoral material, shoddy replicas, etc).

The only time modifications would come into play would be if someone really messed up a doll and tried to claim that the ruined sculpting or bad engineering was the creator's original work, which would again make it an issue of authorship and reputation. A modification which is clearly identified as "a modification by Person X to Person Y's doll" wouldn't apply, because it's not trying to apply authorship of either person to the other's work.

In other cases, getting personal feelings and preferences involved about how the doll is treated or styled seems unreasonable, unprofessional, and not legally binding. Is Louis Vuitton going to track you down and go "You've violated my artistic image by putting a non-LV wallet into my purse you bought last year, I'm going to sue you"? No, of course not.

So while VARA laws of course come into play in terms of things like recasting, what you're selling as a dollmaker is a product, not intellectual property itself. (It's not like selling publishing rights on a manuscript or a character design or something. If the contract were for reproduction rights for the doll's design, then that would be a very different situation.) So sure, go ahead and politely request that people respect the integrity of the art object you've made, but forbidding tampering under threat of lawsuit? No thanks, doesn't sound like an artist I want to support.

 

I personally would not want to buy from such an artist.

It'd be one thing if they simply stated that they'd really prefer buyers to not modify their dolls -- art can definitely be a very intimate thing even if artists do need to eat like everyone else, and I don't like to hurt people when it doesn't cost me anything to be respectful. The unenforceable contract, though, smacks strongly of illicit tactics and would make me leery of any kind of business transaction with that person.

I honestly don't see why they couldn't just blacklist any customers who failed to respect their wishes, anyways.