Would you buy a doll without a COA?

Wait there are fake COA's ???

 

Yes, I have and would. At this point almost all of my collection is secondhand and most did not come with certificates (either it's an event head and didn't come with one, the previous owner misplaced it, etc.) If there's no certificate, I make sure to look at other things to indicate the doll/head is legit (headplates or other markings, seller/website reputability, box doll came with, etc.).

 

Yes. For recast Soom dolls, among others.

That shouldn't really come as a shock. Many CoAs are just pieces of relatively easy to reproduce paper or card-stock.

 

It would depend on the doll. Some dolls didn't come with COAs. Some dolls haven't been recasted. And some dolls that have been recasted only had one version of the doll recasted but not the variant version, so on dolls like that, I'd be more likely to trust the seller if it's the variant version but would require a COA for the version that got recasted.

 

Yes but I thought Soom had an online database and many of the other COA's are handsigned I never thought someone would copy them ... but now that you say it of course they will, they'll do whatever it takes to deceive.

 

One additional thing to keep in mind about that Soom database... and I'm amazed that they STILL haven't ever addressed this anywhere on their own site... But not all order/CoA numbers are logged there.

The verification database only dates to the time of the last big site/order system redesign. If you try looking up an older number (From, let's say, something like an old school Lapis or Dia, or any of the monthly limited releases from the first few years they made them... The original Sards, Beryls, Heliots and such-) you'll get a result of Not Found. The doll may be perfectly legitimate, but they won't be in the system.

I found that out a few years ago when I was going through the Sooms in my own gang, matching certificates with the dolls they belonged to. I know those dolls are "real" with 100% certainty. I'm their first and only owner. I bought them directly from the company... But they're not logged, so if I tried to sell them and someone wanted to check that database to prove it? Nope. They wouldn't be able to do it.

The long and short of it is that you can't rely on CoAs exclusively as iron-clad proof of legitimacy, one way OR the other. They're no substitute for research, knowing what you're looking at and checking feedback.

 

This!

I am firmly in the camp for looking at the whole picture. A CoA is one indicator of a legitimate doll, but that is all it is. It is a small part of the puzzle and not enough to form a full picture of it's own. Nothing can replace a good, broad understanding of the doll you (the general you) are looking to buy.
As others have mentioned, there are a lot of other pieces to that puzzle. The more pieces you have, the easier it is to see the full picture.

I don't mind buying a doll without a CoA if there are enough other things to go on. Boxes, paperwork, extras etc. Known previous owner of good standing in the hobby. Ageing and damage/wear clearly disclosed and consitent with the age of the doll.
To some little extent it may always be a leap of faith in the end, but we can look before we leap.

 

Thank you so much for this info !!! And oh god I will have to check my Dia now it's fairly old !!! It certainly needs much research and care for second hand sales!!!

 

Until very recently almost none of my dolls had COAs. I only sell here, where I have a reputation that tracks back to 2009, so it's never been a problem to sell a doll and have it lack a COA. If I have one I'd throw it in there for the new owner, but I don't require my dolls to have them if I buy them here and they have every indication of legitimacy, and so far I trust my ability to spot fakes otherwise.

 

I've been in the hobby a long time and most of the early doll companies did not have COA's, so not having one is not a deal breaker for me. I've also received more newer dolls that get sent with completely blank COA's so I'm not really sure what the point is for those either. For the ones that did come with COA's I like when they include my purchase date on them (when buying new) because my record keeping is not always that great.

 

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It depends on the situation. I wouldn't if the doll seemed more like a recast that was being presented as the real thing.

 

This is a very interesting topic. To date, I have 7 dolls and out of these, only 1 came with a COA and I bought her new from an authorized retailer. But this COA is literally a blank booklet for anyone to fill out the information. So, in my experience, I don't put any value on COAs. The responsibility is on me to make sure I buy either directly from the manufacturer, an authorized retailer or a vetted/trusted second-hand source.

 

Most of my dolls are second hand, so most of them don't have COAs but they do have the original company boxes, plates, and sculpt ID tag along with some using special S-hooks or magnet shapes that the company uses. Some don't even have a box/plate but I'm fairly sure they are legit since they're older dolls and they come with their original accessories and were bought from reputable sellers. So COAs aren't a dealbreaker for me, but if given the option of a doll with a COA and one without one for relatively similar prices and conditions, I would pick the COA doll.

 

I very much prefer to have the COA, but I do have a few dolls without. ESPECIALLY because I have many older dolls that I bought when recast was known to have happened but was very rare. I bought one, maybe around 2009? because it was heavy/klunky and felt more like an antique doll. It was a curiosity to me, and I didn't realize the damage it does to the whole community and what a rip-off to the wonderful people who do the artistic work to bring us new dolls. As far as I know I have never bought any other recast, but I have trusted people and adopted some without their papers. I have not been as diligent as I should have been.

 

My current dolls are old enough that they don't particularly have a CoA, I think. I do have most of the paperwork they came with, but it's not as fancy as what I see in people's unboxing videos. So naturally I wouldn't think twice about it for dolls of similar age.

 

I would question why the doll doesn't have a CoA and do my diligence and research to see if there should be one or not. It really depends on the doll, if it has been heavily recasted. If the company has a CoA...or if they didn't for the year the doll was made. Some companies didn't have them at first but added them later. About half my dolls have a CoA and the other half do not. Circumstances and feedback matter a lot in these cases. If everything adds up as it should for that particular doll then yes, I would buy without a CoA. If there was any doubt about the legitimacy of a doll, I would not buy it.

 

I think if I was purchasing second-hand and I knew that the doll could have come with a COA originally, I'd hope to get that with the doll. For both my FL second-hand purchases I got the COA, but for my other smaller dolls I didn't get a COA or even the original box. Knowing there's people like me who will purchase without a COA, I don't have any worries about if I choose to sell one of my dolls in the future that doesn't have a COA. Honestly, I'm more of a box person, I'd much prefer to have the original box.

 

I definitely prefer having a COA, but as someone who was 14 when I bought my first doll and threw both the original box and COA away without realizing they were important, I personally don't find it that big of a deal if it's missing. I would definitely check if the seller is trustworthy by other means, though, as that's important in any kind of sale and I think says more about the product you will receive than the existence or absence of a COA.

 

I have purchased a few dolls secondhand without CoAs from trustworthy sellers, but I do regret having done it sometimes. The more times a doll changes hands the harder it is for me to track where it was purchased from and who was the original buyer- I'll admit I've reached that point with my dolls. I know they are legitimate, but proving that to any future buyers is going to be much more difficult. At this point, any doll I buy needs to come with the CoA just to make things easier on myself in the event that I want to sell.