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"You must release perfect doll" (Soom MDs and critics about releases)

Aug 3, 2011

    1. If this does not fit into DoA rules or this has been discussed somewhere else, then by all means, lock this thread up. I simply would like to hear opinions.

      I, among lots of bjd hobbyists have been wondering the nearly owerwhelming and most of all, open critics that is visible pretty much every single time on Soom's own shop page as they release a new doll. This is not ment to be pointing fingers around, I just want to hear some opinions that how on earth people have to behave like that? Why it has even come into this? And why just plain harsh comments have to be made on their own shop boards? I'm meaning the comments like (these are not real comments, just generalized examples) "oh no, not another pretty boy again, make REAL MEN, PLEASE!", "This is not the doll I want, make something prettier next time", "I know you can do better than this particular doll, right?", "every Soom release has to be perfect".

      I very well remember the time when Soom was 'just another bjd company' among others, now it seems that they have to fulfill every single persons own personal requirements with the MD/other fantasy doll lines. I haven't heard that there would be any other companies that would get so much open criticism or have such high expectations for the upcoming releases. I remember that there was huge complaints around after release of Pel (-11 Remaining story release) which didn't have any fantasy parts.
      I myself have also mentioned something about them constantly releasing prettier male sculpts. But then I saw one of those sculpts with totally different faceup and styling. And that indeed was very manly after all, so my comments were pretty much flushed down.

      Ofcourse people can think whatever they want to think about Soom dolls or any other company dolls. But what has made people to be so harsh on commenting straight for the company ? Or do you think that it's justified for a person to say for the doll makers that 'I don't like this at all'?
      Yes, Soom does have largest and most diverse selection of fantasy themed dolls which are much loved among the bjd communities, I also have couple from the MD line.
      But has community itself set too high standards for their releases? Why there has to be so massive complaints around which are directed straight for the doll makers?
    2. I don't really follow the Soom bjds so I don't know much about that, but I will say I don't think that Soom is the only company facing such harsh comments.
      Have you seen some of the comments left on the Iplehouse limiteds?
    3. It happens with anything, really. Once a certain person or group of people get really good at what they do, people start expecting certain things out of them. For example, this really good artist on dA got harrassed a bit for drawing what she wanted to draw instead of what other people want to draw.

      I don't think SOOM cares. They know what they need to filter out. Although you should try to listen to customers, since they're buying the products, in the end it's SOOM making them, so they should do what they want to do.
    4. These comments always make me sad, especially the (made up example) "Make manlier boys! Make perfect dolls! Then everybody will buy them" kind. I don't think people can say "if you make them manlier everybody will buy them" and rudely demand manlier boys. I think these people lack the understanding that people have different tastes, or simply try to push Soom into making what they want. :( Soom are a big company with many buyers, but I'd still think it's a bit disappointing for them when people post these mean things. Constructive criticism or nicely asking for something else? Yes. Rude demanding of what you want? Big no no!
    5. :lol: yes, that is what i think: Soom does not care. Soom could easily turn those comments 'off' if they were not endlessly amused.

      "oh, soom we haet you! you do not make what we like!"

      their sales figures tell them otherwise. :aheartbea sooms are probably amongst the most beloved figures on the planet.
    6. I don't really read the comments on iplehouse but I read the one for Aurora. my god, I think only 1 on every 10 person said something positive :doh
      I really dislike it when people are being all bitchy on the company's page. they do their best and work very to please us and release dolls that are beautiful but there are always people who complain. this is so impolite! they are not your personnal company, there to do your every wishes at perfection. they have other costumers too and they cannot please EVERYONE at the same time <.<
    7. Yeah, I think Iplehouse Aurora's page had something like "Why does she look like such a slut?!" Wow. (I, personally, really loved the outfit, and if I ever get a doll for a specific character, I'm definitely going to try hunting down that dress).

      Anyways, bigger companies = bigger entitled audience (except for Volks maybe, but I think their loyal fanbase tends to self-regulate and eat anyone who tries to be needlessly negative alive, haha). Now, I do find that the mentality comes with popularity of release though. I mean, check out Soom's Migma and Trachy/Lami. Lots of positive comments, very popular dolls, so Negative Nancy's didn't dare to pipe up. However, some other poor dolls that weren't quite in the popular zone, get ripped apart. It also seems like bigger dolls = more srs bsns, since the vast majority of whining comes around the release of big dolls. I haven't seen as many complaints and insults on any of the comments for tinies - I wonder if it has something to do with the different kind of customers who buy the dolls?

      Anyways, don't get me wrong, I think people should be entitled to their opinion. And in some ways, negative opinions are probably more useful than squeeing and fangirling. This is what any artist will tell you, because while being told what you did right is nice, being told what you did wrong (or, er, could've done better) means that you can later try and improve upon in the future release. So I really wouldn't have a problem with people expressing their dislike for a specific release, if they could explain WHY they didn't like it and gave suggestions on what they think could be done better in a constructive way. I mean, Soom already knows that the customers like the dolls, since they buy them, but wouldn't it help to understand why the other customers didn't buy the doll? So instead of "MAKE MANLEE DOLL NOW", I think it would be beneficial for customers to explain, POLITELY, what exactly turned them off a specific release. EG: Dear Soom, your <new doll> is very gorgeous, but I'm going to pass it over, because he looks a bit too feminine with his very rounded, gentle jawline and a small nose" or "Dear Soom, your doll is gorgeous, but the grey resin really turns me off because I can't sand it". Etc. I think if someone were to justify themselves and give suggestions, it shouldn't be a problem - provided they know what they're talking about.

      For example, the recent Soom release has someone complaining that the lips make him look girly. That's not true. Lips are not an obvious defining characteristic of gender, and making them smaller would still make the Obsidius look girly. The reason he looks "girly" is not because of his lips, but because he has a softer, smaller jaw-line and a thin nose - which ARE, in fact, two defining characteristics of gender. (This is why Luts El and his tiny thin lips still looks like a girl, while Iplehouse Luo, with his big lips, is very obviously a man)

      I actually kind of wish Soom (or Iplehouse, though they've sort of done this a few times) had a suggestion box where you could drop general things you'd like to see, like tan skin, or a manlier face, or whatever. It would help them out too, since then they'll know what their customer base wants most and consider it during their planning stages for the next doll.
    8. agree, I personnaly adore her dress and wanted to get it so badly!!
    9. I like frank, honest critiques but not when they come with a huffy undertone of entitlement.
    10. I'm not understanding the debate here....manners? Soom and other companies have "thicker skins" and I doubt negative comments or attitudes really hurt. Like someone said, criticisims are how you can improve. Sometimes you need the harsh, viseral reactions. The new dolls lips DO make him look girly to me. It's all opinion, you can't dictate what someone percieves as feminine, masculine, etc. nor how they express it. I don't understand why it bothers you so much..
    11. I think most people don't understand that doll companies don't owe us anything. They don't HAVE to do anything. It seems a lot of people think they are entitled to things, just because they have money. But most companies have built up a loyal following that will support them no matter what and usually their following is much larger than the haters.
      There's a difference between constructive criticism and plain old bashing. I have seen some people say things that might actually benefit the future of some dolls, instead of saying something useless along the lines of "it's ugly".
    12. I've seen a lot of the comments on dolls on the sites themselves and I just couldn't believe it. :/ I think there is a big difference between bashing and constructive criticism.

      Dolls I don't like, I just avoid. I don't bother reading the comments, either. I either like the doll or I don't, and if I don't, I can still appreciate the hard work that went into it. I saw a comment on the recent Soom MSDs with a comment along the lines of: "finally, a good msd from you!" and I remember being shocked because I've thought all of their Remaining Story line of dolls have been phenomenal. I could understand: "yay! an msd from you guys I'll finally buy!" or something. Granted, this is tame compared to some comments.

      A doll may not be to one's tastes, but that doesn't mean you have to bash it in order to express your desire for something new. Saying: "Awesome doll, but I'd love to see a manlier guy next time!" would be a great way to get a point across without sounding demeaning.

      But hey, sales figures speak for themselves. So long as a certain type of doll is selling, you can guarantee you'll see it up again. It'd be awesome if one doll could appease everyone, but they can't- and that's one of the great things about the hobby!
    13. Yeah, and the kicker is: Not ONE of these people give a crap whether or not the company makes any more money.

      You always hear that refrain, though: "Your sales will improve if you'd make exactly the doll I want, instead of the doll you wanted to make". :roll: They're trying to sound like they care about the company's welfare, when nothing could be further from the truth. The sheer falseness makes me want to hurl.

      It's appalling the way those people behave... like spoiled kindergarteners. Iplehouse & Soom are both besieged by these trolls, and it's made their sites depressing to navigate.

      It's NOT constructive criticism when you vent your generalized desires for "make something else" in a space that's intended for product-specific reviews. It's not a suggestion-box; they're not asking for your opinions on the way they should do business. They're asking for your constructive opinion on that particular product. If you don't like a company's overall style, you don't rant at them to change their ways; you shut up and go shop somewhere else.
    14. I find that the anonymity of the internet allows other to say rather rude things that they would never say to someone's face. That said, I agree with Lelite that for an artist negative criticism is a great way to find out what you may need to improve. Still, there's useful criticism and then there is just stupid. The thing is, when you word your critiques carefully, the doll makers are far more willing to take you opinion into account then ignoring your opinion altogether when your words are both insulting and rude. It's sad that some BJd owners don't seem to understand this. I, however, doubt Soon ever takes any of the things theses people say to heart. They know their sculpts are loved and well, you can't please everyone. :roll:

      I usually tend to ignore comments on websites nowadays, mostly because I was just tried of always being frustrated at some of the horrible and often uncalled for things others would post. :sweat
    15. What whiny little brats.

      That's all I can think when I read some of the comments on doll company's pages these days. I am appalled by some of their attitudes. It's almost as if they take it as a personal insult that the doll that just came out is not the perfect dream they always saw in their sleep growing up.

      Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of comments that are well meaning and constructive, but there are some comments that go way out of line. Just because it's not what you personally would consider "perfect" does absolutely not mean there is anything "wrong" with it, so "do better next time" comments are not helpful nor appropriate. It baffles me why people think they can be so rude. The doll that is being commented on probably IS perfect to someone else. I wonder how they would feel if they spent time crafting something beautiful only to have a bunch of snotty little kids whine that "his lips are shaped wrong".

      Shaped wrong for what, fer crying out loud? Your own character? Your own personal Ideals? That's on you if you don't like it, not the sculptor! It doesn't make something wrong, or in need of improvement. If you want to see something different, then say that, but don't don't say something should be done better just because it didn't live up to your own expectations. The artists can't read your mind. No, the artist doesn't even know you exist, so how could they make sure their creation is exactly up to *your* snuff?

      *Note: I say "You" but this little rant is in no way directed toward anyone personally. (unless you are one of the rude commenters, then yes, you can assume I am addressing you)
    16. I'm glad someone said this.
      Because I completely agree.

      Saying what you don't like about the doll in a respectful manner is fine. Probably encourage actually, so Soom can know what people want next.
      But rudely whining because the doll isn't exactly what you wanted is just... disgusting. The ones who do that really need to grow up.
      No, every doll Soom makes is going to be the doll for you. Isn't that a good thing?

      Just because one person doesn't like it, doesn't mean another one won't. I like his softer face, in fact I am getting him because I fell in love with him. I also have a Monzo, one of the manly guys.

      Soom has such a wide variety of looks, there's going to be something for everyone. Not every doll has to perfect for you :/ I'm pretty sure that would be really boring, to sculpt the same kind of man or woman

      It makes me really sad that you can click on any of Soom's MD and there's going to be at least one person just being completely rude and disrespectful.

      People need to remember that doll sculptors are artists. They make things in their vision. If it's what they wanted to sculpt, no one can change that.
    17. I think this is the first time I've actually looked at comments posted on a company doll page since I've been researching BJDs. If I hadn't joined DoA first, I think something like that would have turned me off of the whole community.

      The only thing I have to add is that you shouldn't confuse the vocal minority for the majority. The people whose opinions matter to the company vote with their money, not with their comments, and the dolls that sell well are the kind of dolls that will continue to be produced. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people posting on the dolls don't actually own a doll by the company.
    18. I find this so true with prices too! And it's not just on the company pages :( Some discussion threads here on DoA have people complain loudly at how expensive a doll is. What good is that going to do?

      What complainers don't realise is that unless something is truly wrong with the doll (legality wise, production wise or sales wise), companies will not change them. It'd be far too expensive to change the sculpture, make the company look shifty if they change the price. Once the doll is already made and priced, do they think complaining is gonna make everything magically change to suit whoever bitched?
    19. Well, in my opinion , well argumanted criticism , be it positive or negative is welcome for any doll company . Now , don`t get me wrong , I do not like people posting negative comments just cause they can , but when a doll costs a small fortune , and you`re paying for it , I think you have every right to express a opinion.Good or bad. And doll companies don`t have to please every single person, but I think taking your clients opinions in consideration wouldn`t hurt.

      -excuse my crappy english
    20. So you want to know why? Bad manners and a self centered outlook on life. I hope Soom laughs all the way to the bank because all I see are sold out banners on their dolls.