Your opinions about hypersexualized dolls or items in DP or other Doll Exhibitions

There is still a significant, though small, number of BJD enthusiasts who are older teenagers... 16/17. While I agree that dolls in lingerie with whips aren't 18+, I do feel that any actual 18+ content should be put in a separate area, so that those BJD enthusiasts who are not yet 18 can still enjoy the rest of the show.

 

Ehhh - I have to agree about the possibility of moving them to a dedicated section - not closed off to the world mind you, but maybe group all vendors/displays by a category. Heck this would even be good for those who like lolita or like victorian, how often do you go through a big dealer hall and miss stuff b/c it's scattered throughout?

I'm mainly into Dollfie Dreams, so I've seen... ugh, alot of just plain disturbing, overly adult stuff sold for these dolls b/c they're anime-style and that just naturally translates into hentai. From the squishy boobs to even... err lower bits that have folds (that's as far as I'm going to describe it! >_<), it's just a little too adult for me. If that's your bag, hey that's totally fine - if it's in a certain area, say off to the left of the dealer area or something - at least that gives people the option to avoid it. There's been some DD items I've seen that just flat out disturb me and you can't 'unsee it' once it's in your brain.

Not everyone has the same level of comfort with that kind of stuff and at least organizing that kind of stuff together gives the patrons the freedom to still go see it and others the freedom to know to avoid it. Museums with nudes is a very different thing than a doll being hyper-sexualized with bondage outfits, and realistic/touchable/etc parts just littered throughout a dealer hall. Not saying, make it a blackrope/black curtain area, just say, "oh the 18+ stuff? that's over on the west/south/whatever side of the hall.

 

I never forced my views on anyone :-( I just said my personal take on the subject. I didn't say I expect others to do this and that because of what I believe in, just be mindful of those who dislike these things and keep it in a restricted area. I wasn't talking about dolls in lingerie here, I was talking about the overly sexualised and obviously hentai-material dolls that are, in every essence, perverted, yes. I don't understand how that is considered not perverted..? Heck if theres some peeping tom spying on girls in the changing room, he would be called perverted and to me thats the same thing. But I do understand that if one was to convince the organisers or community to refrain from exposing their sexually clad dolls, another sensitive approach should be taken, but this is not the case, and I understand lavandula didn't name-call them when discussing it on the Hong Kong doll forum.

@ Minerva: I agree, it is supposed to be a hobby for adults in the fact that kids most likely cannot afford these dolls on their own, and cannot maintain them (do face-ups, customise them etc.) However, not all adults are comfortable with this, and some even take along their kids, because in the end, it is a doll convention, its not a "risqué" doll convention...

 

I'm pretty sure that the people with the overly sexualized and obviously hentai material dolls would not call themselves perverted. Perverted implies that there is something wrong with that behavior. Peeping toms are perverted, yes, as the girls in question do not give their consent to be spied upon.

 

I personally do not like the idea over oversexualizing a doll[even though I plan to do a burlesque theme for my first doll, it's going to be more of a classic, slightly Emilie Autumn-inspired look more than a Dita Von Teese-in-a-martini-glass look], but to each their own. There should be, if a separate forum was not made for it, a *tw bdsm* tag, so you could look at the title and avoid it if you don't want to see that.

 

You were very vocal in your disapproval in a very judgemental and name calling manner.

The difference is a peeping tom spying on girls is not acceptable behaviour so it is totally different, we acknowledge it is not acceptable behaviour because it is wrong to try and see girls in little to nothing without their consent. That is why that is perverse; where as sexualised art is not because there is nothing wrong or harmful about it. I think it is not very nice to group people who happen to enjoy mature content while not harming anyone, with preserve behaviour such as a peeping tom.

It is a little uncalled for really, plus as I said for some people it is an art form. What is really wrong with that?

Calling someone a pervert or perverse is naming calling.

 

Ah, but the problem is, what is considered 18+ is completely arbitrary. The OP clearly believes that dolls in lingerie and whips is 18+ material (or worse, that it shouldn't be seen at all). My line would be far further out. It would be very difficult to establish. In the UK, we have high street sex shops (probably do elsewhere as well). The underwear is in the front of the shop, for all to see. The sex toys and videos are in a screened off area for 18s only. A pretty arbitrary line. It is even more arbitrary when you know that that the age of consent in the UK is 16. You may have sex, but you may not use toys!

So, yes. I am not sure where the line would be for putting stuff in an "adult" section.

And which potentially offensive items would you stash in an "adult" area? I detest seeing loli/shota type dolls. Makes me feel sick. But I would just pass them by. Others would be offended by some of the military stuff out there (and boo to Volks for having put both of those together at a show a couple of years ago). I can even imagine some people being squicked by gore mods. So, lots of preferences. Can all be accommodated?

Just because the problem isn't clear cut doesn't mean it shouldn't be dealt with, but it helps to realise that all this is arbitrary personal preference and so the position is not as clear cut as the OP seemed to imply.

 

Again, I clearly mean the OVERLY-sexualization of dolls, which to me, personally and only to me, it is perverted and is no different than peeping toms. Believe it or not there is a fine line between almost-porn and art. I really do not want to sound rude or attacking, I just do not want to be accused of name-calling when the subject is really contradicting. Do you not consider a grown man to collect nude dolls and dress them in nothing but a piece of thread not perverted?

 

The definition of the word perverted implies that there is something wrong with perverted things. You might find a grown man who collects nude dolls and dresses them in nothing but a piece of thread disturbing, but..... that isn't the same thing as being perverted. He isn't taking pictures of naked girls, he isn't doing anything to hurt anyone else.

 

I think we can take a rough guess what would be considered 18+ though, I have been to anime exhibitions were they did have adult content but it was in a section on it's own. So it does mean in theory it can be done. Plus I am sure the organisers could use some common sense to produce some guidelines to what would be considered mature content or not. The guidelines would have to reflect the age of consent in the country the con is being held at.

I have also done conventions as an artists that where primarily family friendly, however mature content was not banned it just had to not be on fully open/obvious display. That was a bit easier because it was art and I could easily put more mature content in a separate folder, and use other items to cover up the more mature items. However I think my point of this kind of thing is not unheard of. You named a very good example yourself with the Ann Summers shops, the more mature stuff is slightly tucked away at the back, or down stairs in larger shops. The separation of mature content doesn't have to be extreme.

It is possible to sort these things out if there are concerns, however you have to give the organisers good reason for needing to do it that isn't just: "This offends me!" like the OP seems to come across as.

Yes I know what you mean, I did a photo shoot the other day that was very clearly a lesbian sex scene. I personally think it can be done in an artistic manner. I was using a new photographic technique that I have just learned and wished to experiment with and tried to keep the angles interesting. I put a lot of thought into how I was presenting it, however the content is most certainly sexualised.

Yes there is a fine line between art and porn sometimes, but who gets to decide that? What is the difference? Can your accurately describe or define it?

Are to saying that is the same as me infringing on someone privacy?

What a grown man decides to do as long as he is not harming any one is none of my concern. A peeping tom IS harmful because there is a lack of consent on those girls he is peeping on. People keep telling your the use of the word prevent implies there is something wrong with that person and hence the objection.

 

I'm gonna add in a little here, because there is a difference in between tasteful nudity/promiscuity and oversexualization. The line is drawn by one's own taste level, so not everyone is going to agree. If someone thinks something is perverted, then that's their decision. However, bringing name-calling in here is kind of silly. The act of a Peeping Tom to someone is perverted, the act of oversexualizing a doll to someone is perverted. The person may be a perfectly classy, modest person, just has a bit of a 'wild side', for lack of a better way to put it.

 

Why is it perverted? Or even disturbing? As you say, he isn't harming anyone, even indirectly, as any look through the gallery will show that there are more male dolls in sexy clothes than female in the hobby, so men are being indirectly objectify as much as women, if not more. We all enjoy our dolls in different ways. Why is that a problem? I can understand you might personally not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong in any objective sense.

 

That was meant to be worded as "you might find a grown man who collects nude dolls and dresses them in nothing but a piece of thread disturbing, but.....". Going to edit now~

The word "perverted" is often used to describe things that actively harm another person. And this doesn't actively harm another person.

 

If it is someones religion not to do something and they want to live by that, then that is their choice. However on DoA it is an international forum with all walks of life and religions, it should be understood that people will not always view things in the same way. However the word pervert can be offensive in this sense when many people are explaining it with the association or causing harm to others. So no perverted is most certainly not a good word, and neither is immoral because what people find moral is also subjective.

For me for example I find acts immoral mainly when they cause harm to another, if they are not causing harm to another I am much less likely to find it immoral. However I know full well people view this differently to me.

 

So where do you want to be drawing the line, and why do you get to draw the line for the rest of us?

The doll I'm currently working on is an incubus, and he has all the appropriate fantasy parts that come with his model. No whips and chains, but his character is an openly sexual being and he is dressed (or not-dressed, as it is) to suit his character. Would you get up in arms because I show up at an event with him in his winged, hooved, and horned glory? Or is it only the mostly-naked girl dolls that you're worried about accidentally seeing?

Please tell me you're not suggesting that every doll needs to be buttoned to the throat to avoid offending anyone who might accidentally see scandalous doll ankles.

 

Just chipping in my thoughts, I know Chinese, and had read Lavandula's original posts from the forum she's talking about. Just saying... what she said there wasn't completely the same as what she's saying here, and people were quite calm and polite in terms of replies... so I don't really see where the "bullying" came from lol

anyway, in summary, I can understand if you feel uncomfortable about certain things, you wouldn't want to see them... but hey, like Minerva just said, as an adult, you just have to work round it yourself. I agree if things are too explicit, then there should be a limit to where and when it could be displayed, but I'm pretty sure if people displaying them stepped over the boundary in DP, they surely would be advised by the organizing company to take them down.

Also, quoting your original words "(I said "I know that a lot of people who play with Dollfie Dreams like to dress their dolls in hentai/ perverted clothes")" THIS is what caused all the issues mainly, that tells me you are really prejudice against people who plays with DDs and stereotyping them into well...perverts... (even though you said you want to buy a DD too)
Personally, I think when you're trying to voice something a bit negative, you really need to pick the right words so people are not offended by your words/thoughts.

 

I think her problem is less directed at your incubus, and more at the portion of the Dollfie Dream hobby that.... really stylizes their Dollfie Dreams as sex toys, and she feels that the sex toy Dollfie Dream merchandise should be displayed somewhere separate from the main showroom.