A fat dollfie.

Wow... I'll have to do some digging to see where I can find one of Lillycat's girls! I love that sculpting!

I do agree with the general consensus though, that the dolls are an object of fantasy and are therefore "idealized". I'm also a larger cosplayer, and there are just some costumes I can't wear. Though I'm still well within a medically healthy weight range, it's sometimes seen as "chunky". It's nice to know that my dolls can wear just about anything, and that they never have to worry about gravity pulling down those perky resin bosoms! I love my body type to pieces because I adore my curves, but I don't think I'd want a doll that had my body because I would find that boring. I already know my body... I want something different from them.

However, out of all my dolls my fave body is my MNF hybrid's mature Soulkid body. She does have a little waist and some hefty boobs, but she has a big derriere and well-sculpted hips, which I adore. ^_^

On another note, even though they are smaller I LOVE the Domuya Perennial breasts... I think in all I don't mind the body shape whether thicker or slender, but I do love little realistic sculpting details like those dimples on the Lillycat back! Or the Supia 60cm tummy... I love that she has a little bit of that female "pooch" under her bellybutton!

 

I think a fat doll is a very good thing socio-politically, but I'm not sure I'd really want one. People are people, fat or skinny, and doll are dolls as well. But most of us are adults and I don't think it necesarily harms our social perceptions to have dolls that are all pretty, skinny people. This might be harmful to children, but can you really get them to play with a plain-faced, chubby doll over Barbie?

 

Hm...since I don't have any girls dolls nor any plans in the future to ever have one ( well, maybe in the far, far faaaar future, but we'll see where that takes me ), I don't really think I have too much to say in the way of a curvier female doll. Some of the examples shown here, I feel a little uncomfortable with since while those girl BJDS certainly have bigger hips and thighs, they still have itsy bitsy torsos which for me, personally, is the whole point in making a doll idealized or not. Some people like bigger bottoms, some people like smaller, that's for certain, but it seems at the very least 'fat' or 'skinny' dolls all have at least one thing in common that's apparently attractive for all, and that's a thin middle.

Anyway, enough about females. About male BJDs, oh yes, yes, YES. I would love to see a boy doll with just a bit more of a tummy than the average BJD. And to be honest, yes, I would buy him too ( granted he was mini size :3 ). I cannot begin to explain just how long and hard I looked to find a body that would be appropriately suited for my dear boy, Fakia. He's not 'fat', but it's part of his character to have just a bit of extra pudge around his belly, and thicker, muscular legs. I've pretty given up that search of finding a body and am highly contemplating the idea of getting him modded so he'll have a bit more chub than my other boys. But of course, even though I know outside people's opinions shouldn't effect me, after reading this thread I'm not really sure if I want to anymore as I'm already pretty protective over my boys as it is and it makes me pretty sad that he might just be labled as 'that ugly fat doll'. Oh dear...it's like BJD high school ;_;

Don't get me wrong, I too find thinner boys pleasing to the eye as well, one reason I'll be switching my future LatiBlue Rucas head to a DZ body...too many muscles on any doll just isn't my thing. There's a big difference between resin and real life and while on real men I can find muscles attractive ( in moderation of course, that's always the key thing xD ), I don't want them on my boys. On the flip side, the BJD bodies that are so thin that the stomach is nearly concave and I can see the ribcage...also not my thing, once again in either dolls or real life. So while I do appreciate and like slimmer male dolls, that isn't to say I'm adverse to the idea of a slightly pudgier one either.

 

What most on this thread seem to consider 'fat' is truly appalling. As mentioned by another commenter above, no wonder anorexia & other eating disorders are rampant among young girls & women! And we women/girls are our own worst enemies/critics. Talk about buying into the enemies' argument! I look at these doll bodies - even my own custom doll sculpt - and they are NOT 'FAT'!!!! Even the so-called 'tubby' ones aren't in sinc w/realistic human standards. These dolls, while gorgeous, are hyper-idealized, elongated, unrealistically-skinny versions put out by mostly male designers & marketers, of their erotic fantasies: huge tits and ass, long legs - and nothing else except lots of hair!

I understand why few if any - including myself - would exactly want to have access only to Venus of Willendorf type doll bodies, but the standards set by these dolls - and even more so by the 1/6 dolls - are impossible, totally unrealistic, and in the end, psychologically & emotionally damaging to women who can't possibly measure up & never will. It could be argued that male dolls are equally unreal & damaging - except that for various psychological reasons, men/boys don't internalize such imagery, nor do they identify, in the same way women/girls do, therefore they don't consider such dolls to be projections of what they themselves 'should' be.

I don't know. I understand not wanting a doll w/less than 'perfect' features; but at the same time, it hurts to think that if a less-than-flawlessly featured doll is so savagely rejected, then how much of that is passed on, consciously or un- to rejection of those of us less-than-flawless living beings? I can tell you from personal experience: quite a bit.

Here's my Liddia resculpt. She's NOT fat! Curvy, yes, but fat? NO!

 

NancyS I think you've summed up how I feel pretty perfectly! Especially with the rejection in the last part

 

My mother actively discouraged me from playing with dolls, all dolls, not just barbie or baby dolls, but I did like them. Actually I found barbie dolls frustrating, and really preferred action figures. But my favorite doll was a little Hawaiian girl from Sea World -- and she was definitely on the chubby side. I don't think kids are born hating fat people, nor do I think they would just instinctively prefer skinny dolls.

I would also like to see a range of different figures in the modern development of bjd's. I would like to see some fat dolls. Fat not an asian aesthetic? How about Sumo Wrestlers and Buddha statues? A few years ago I had a copy of a magazine ad that featured a barbie that had been photoshopped to zaftig proportions. I would want that doll if it was available. I would really love that doll if it was a resin, with customizable eyes and wig.

I'm not saying I don't appreciate the tall, thin youthful appearance of most modern bjd's -- I do appreciate anime style, and I especially like bishie boys. But I wouldn't be offended by fat dolls, nor do I think they would necessarily break the asian aesthetic that the dolls originate from.

 

I've seen a Japanese artist's webpage with chubby children dolls that I'm almost positive were BJDs. I'll have to go hunt it down.

 

okay. i will just say that if you watch korean dramas, this is the kind of body aesthetic they follow in their country. and it is not exactly skinny either. it probably just seems so from the western perspective perhaps because there are more heavybuilt western people than there are asians(or koreans, at least). many girls in my age group have this kind of figure from exercising at school, and i don't mean stick-and-bones. they actually just have smaller bones.

i am myself far from skinny, and i don't believe in anorexic-looking dolls, but i have not seen a really desirably curvaceous doll yet. curvaceous doesn't equal fat. i know what you mean by some people not being able to lose weight by exercise, sharonpixie. i happen to fall into that category. my body type is more heavy-built, and i exercised constantly (and futilely) for 4 years without losing a single kilogram.

maybe asian BJD style is just about slim, you know?

 

NancyS have a good point. Maybe people in the hobby is expecting to have the perfect doll but I really don't swim in the river of what everybody find perfect or beautiful. It took me a long time to realize that I'm beautiful the way I am and I don't need to be the JLO to be a pretty puertorrican.

In terms of dolls I would like to have a fat or curvy model doll size girl. Maybe companies think that it would not sale. I don't agree. There are a lot of people that would like to fee proud of have a doll more like our own reality. I was even thinking in make one myself because I know that will take years for someone to decide to make one. It would be a journey for me to make her but I'm decided to do it. Wish me luck!

Edit: I want to add something. Fat is not similar of being unhealthy. Some people make more excesise than thin people but their complexion don't allow them to lose enough weight. There are a lot of plus size models that are healthy and are beautiful. For example, Barbara Brickner is the most famous plus size model in the world. Her webpage is here

 

I'm thinking in terms of Queen Latifah. And Oprah before she lost weight. The problem is, there are so few large size women in the Media, because The Media edit & control what is seen, and they (also mostly male) posit their own values: that large women are not viewable. Hence, in public MSM, they are invisible, unless, like Queen L, they are too 'large' to ignore, publicity-wise. So there aren't a whole lot of large-size beautiful women around to point & say, 'see? she's large & she's beautiful', because according to Hollywood & MTV, they don't exist. The irony is, there are a whole helluva lot more women who AREN'T "fit", with the ideal figure Mlittarin posits the average teenager has, than there are those of supposedly 'normal' size.

And something else I can tell you all: Mlittarin is dead wrong about more than a very few in her age group (teenagers?) having such figures: I see them every day, so do you - and most kids have less than perfect bodies, very much NOT in keeping with the doll sculpts. Otherwise, why do I constantly hear from our teen cadets "my butt/boobs/thighs/stomach/legs/[name your body part of preference] is too fat/thin/flabby/[name your perceived problem]? If the kids did indeed have the perfect lolita bodies of the dolls, there would be far fewer teen suicides, far fewer girls w/eating disorders like anorexia & bulimia --- and NO need whatsoever for the massive, impermeated Diet Culture we live in today.

In fact, when you think of it, a good deal of this 'women are too fat' thing stems from exactly that: the huge, multi-billion dollar dieting & fashion industries, whose very subsistance turns on convincing women they are too fat, not lovable, not worthy - UNLESS they lose weight (with their products of course) and are stick-thin enough to fit into the scarecrow-sized clothes the fashion design people produce.

How many of you have seen "The Devil Wears Prada"? The scene where Andy is in the lunch line, and tells the guy, "I'm an 8..." and he sneers, "...which is the new 14, of course..." or the scene where Miranda is ranting about "...so I hired the smart fat girl..." A size 8-?! FAT?! I think not. This is a movie, of course, but it's based on a whole lot of home truths about our diet/skinny-obsessed culture today, including scorn for/of fat or overweight people, and most of it is promulgated by the industries which profit the most from getting women into mental states of self-hatred and self-criticism. They kill your self-esteem for MONEY. They kill us - women - for money. For profit.

And we, like idiots, follow right along, buying their hype, buying their ideals, lipping their standards, which are evident in these dolls.

When I talk about hyper thin figures on dolls, I refer more to the 1/6 dolls than the 1/3s, but both are indicted, really, altho not as badly as the entire field of anime/manga from which they stem & to which they are connected, however tenuously. The figures of women/girls in anime/manga really ARE horrendous and horrendously exaggerated, whereas the majority of male figures are not.

As I said, I don't know the answer; I just know that it really, really bothers me to read a thread like this, in which far too many of the people commenting consider perfectly 'normal' figured dolls - in fact, dolls with smaller than normal parameters, more idealized than in reality - to be "fat", and hence, something they don't really want.

Fat? A size 8? Says who? Who appointed themselves the arbiters of this standard? And why do we all follow along?

My response to the Mirandas & designers of this world is 'up yours!'

No young girl should feel she's 'too fat' - unless she's 25% over BMI, & really IS overweight. And even then only if it's a threat to her health. The notion that we all have to adhere to 'one [thin] size fits all' is obscene. And false.

This really, really bothers me. I apologize for the rant, but it brings to the surface what has been lurking beneath about unrealistic perceptions of beauty. I'm glad the subject was broached.

 

What makes me sad is that people take into account everything Nancy S shows she goes against, and I agree with her, and they put it into the doll world. It's meant to be fun and for people to get so worked up about a doll being fat really breaks my heart

 

:\ I'm naturally very thin, and it's kind of depressing to read some posts about how ~*~horrifying~*~ the thin doll bodies are. Sometimes I wish I was fat instead just so I wouldn't have to listen to people tell me to go eat a sandwich or how every thin person just HAS to be anorexic.

Anyway, as to not be off topic, I personally don't care about doll bodies one way or the other. I don't own any female BJDs right now, but if I wanted to go out and buy one I would be looking at whether or not I liked her head sculpt, not her body.

 

There are plenty of stocky immature minis with no or minimal breasts. I also think the immature Volks SD10 girls are not skinny.

For mature minis, I think some are anorexic and don't even look like they have muscles. None are what I would call plump but some have more apparent weight than others. For example, despite their slim waists Unoa and the DOC mature body have a decent amount of weight in their hips and thighs. Unoa by default comes with an almost flat chest and the large bust is an optional part. One other option if you want smaller breasts is to have a modder reduce them.

http://www.rakurakutei.com/theloft/unoa_faq.htm#MEASUREMENTS
http://www.ecinter.net/frontstore/I...art_id=hoo933&level=yes&mother_catalog_num=86

The only really plump BJD I know of that isn't a baby or toddler is the new mature tiny named Bonbon that Tinybear is working on.

Carolyn

 

Yeah. I've only skimmed this thread so far so I haven't spotted any outright fat-bashing, but the skinny-bashing is unpleasantly obvious in places. Can people PLEASE stop using the term 'anorexic' to refer to skinny dolls. Skinny != anorexic. Slender build, flat tummy, visible ribcage, small boobs? Some people look like that NATURALLY, and they sure as hell don't appreciate being referred to as anorexic.

 

of course there have been "real body" proportion-type barbie-like dolls... but they never sell as well as barbie... (and so it goes!)

 

Yeah... I'm not exactly super thin, but I do have a very large natural bust (according to Google I wear the same bra size as Jordan... pre reduction ) and longish legs etc. and a few of these posts have made me feel a bit... offended may be too strong a word. But that kind of feeling. ^^;

Also, Nancy S: I don't think that all girls having a perfect body would necessarily stop anorexia/bulimia... after all, a lot of girls who are anorexic and bulimic are already slim and "traditionally pretty" girls who just have a mental disease that causes them to not see that. Obviously the media plays a part, but there are other factors as well, like parental pressure (even if it isn't necessarily pressure to be skinny and pretty) and a need to control something in their lives, which they feel they have no control over. It can be more compicated (and depressing) than it looks from the outside.

Also, I do find it interesting that people are getting MUCH more worked up over female dolls. I guess it's not surprising since it's much more personal to most, but some of the boy bodies I've seen look much, much skinnier than most girls, and you can ofen see their ribs etc. But there's very litle outrage over those sculpt here.

Edit: And if you really, really want to see a doll with a body type that you can't find, anywhere from "plump" to medically "obese", well.. try sculpting one yourself. Team up with a sculptor and collaborate on a doll. Talking in here about how you want to see fat dolls won't get them made, and a few people emailing a company asking about it probably won't get that doll made either. Someone posted here that the shape of a doll should be up to the owner, but more realistically it's up to the artist! So become the artist (even if someone else is hired to do the actual sculpting), and work towards making the dolls you really want to see a reality! : )

 

I also agree that, while I would like a 'chubby' doll since that is just how I like my womens, I don't like the consensus that BJDs are 'too skinny.' They're stylized and proportioned different than humans; I mean, compare how big they're heads are proportionally to that of a human. Of course they're going to look skinnier. Even the 'curvy' dolls look skinnier, even if they're based off bigger-than-average girls. I mean, look at Lishe's boobs -- boobs and hips proportionally wide to them aren't trademarks of a 'skinny' person, but because of the style, she LOOKS thin.

And there's nothing wrong with skinny dolls, and no such thing as 'too skinny' (unless we're getting into like... anorexic builds, but none of these dolls seem anorexic to me. Just thin. Similarly, I wouldn't want to see obese dolls :< ) I hate hearing that 'Real women have curves' slogan, because it implies that women who are naturally flat-chested or skinny or even have natural super model proportions aren't 'real women.' That bigger is better. It should be something like, 'Real women CAN have curves.' While it does come down to preference, I think all body times (unless we're going into unhealthy extremes) have equal potential value. It's all a matter of preference... but I hate to hear specific healthy/natural body types being devalued.

And a note on these dolls and Barbies. There's a reason they're unrealisticly shaped. Barbie's tiny feet, as an example. She is not meant to be seen naked; she is meant to be seen clothed. Note how thick the material her heels are made out of; if you scaled her and her shoes up to the size of a real woman, the materials of her heels would be like 2-3 inches thick. It'd be impossible to make perfectly in-scale shoes that wouldn't be terribly fragile. So her feet have to be tiny to accomidate the out-of-scale material. When she is wearing shoes, her feet are way more proportional to real feet. And her facial features... if her eyes were in proportion with ours, they'd be so small you couldn't see them very well.

The BJDs are similar, if with less issues being 1/3 scale as opposed to 1/6th. In some ways... they HAVE to be skinnier/shaped different than us. Some of it is style choice (big eyes, facial features, body types), but others are just design choices that make them look good dressed. That's most of the reason Lishe's boobs look like she's wearing a push-up bra: because she's meant to be clothed, so her boobs make it look like she has support under her clothes. And why their limbs are so thin ... the fabric is pretty thick compared to them, so their arms/legs are thinner to make them look better in clothes.

So there are many reasons why our dolls look the way they do, and its not always because 'super skinny' is preferred (and there's nothing wrong with skinny to begin with). Even if 'chubbier' dolls were marketted, they'd have to figure out design elements to make them look good in clothes, so naked they'd never look like an actually 'fat' person.

 

I don't see any value of having fat dolls. They would not be very posable, nor would they balance correctly. Also, if I had a fat doll, it may disillusion me into thinking that my weight it okay. It's not. Being overweight is unhealthy. Every time I look at these pretty, ideal dolls, I get reminded that I want to be like that. Healthy looking. So then I go exercise.

That being said, Kid Delfs are healthily chubby. They pack it perfectly.

 

I like the dolls being skinny, i dont really see the point in making a fat one. Why would u want to film them and what not? If you really want one u could always try to mold one urself.

 

That's a little on the insulting side, what's wrong if someone prefers 'fat' over skinny? There's nothing wrong with either, I love my skinny boys just as much as I'll love my future pudgy one. I sort of wish people would differntiate the difference between 'fat' and chubby, as I'm pretty sure most people are equating fat with being obese, but not everyone as classifying it as the same.

Anyway, just felt the need to comment to your 'why would u want to film them' question. It's not like being a bit on the heavier side automatically makes a doll, or a person, ugly or unnattractive. My heavier boy is just as gorgeous to me as my thinner ones. I don't really see why weight should play a factor as to how beautiful something is x3