Adult themes taboo for tinies?

Skadi, some of my MSDs have very (or will have) "morally deficient" storylines. (I'll join you in your pillow tears).

 

I don't know if its been mentioned in this thread yet, but for those of us who live in the USA there is a new law called the Protect Act prohibiting the depiction of underage persons in obscene situations. This includes drawings and computer generated imagery- and yes, someone has already been convicted under this law for owning obscene manga. The excuse of "they're really adults/demons/2000year old vampires doesn't work vs a prosecutor out for your hide. As a result of this law I am very leery of photographing my dolls in any sexual situations- what if someone decides my large eyed Volks boy and my femininely featured DoT boy are blatantly underage? I'm not opening myself up to that and anyone in the USA who is snapping pictures of childlike minis and tinies in such scenarios is definitely putting themselves at risk- legally.

 

Ok, it would take a brave person to risk prosecution and being labelled a paedo over some dolls but I always think the law is a heavy handed tyrant. In the UK paedo paranoia has got so ridiculous that a man was actually arrested or on the brink of arrest for taking a photo of his own son on a mechanial kiddie ride! You can't take photos of your own kids in the school play and the heads of children are actually blurred out of some photos on public display. This does not mean that there is a paedophile on every street and the law is protecting us, it means the nanny state and the "sue 'em all" culture has gone wildly out of control and it's that which needs reigning in, not art/imagination that needs censoring! I've read the quote that if a dictator wants to control the people, he must first control the art.

 

SkadiGoddess, about the nanny state, yes. A thousand times yes. Just because we should be careful for the sake of the law, doesn't mean it's a good law.

And yeah, that's the thing - cultures are different. I was raised in the UK and I'm not used to the super-repressive American view of sexuality - sex among young teens is more common, and although super-young isn't common, MSDs would fit into the age range where I'd consider we're used to thinking, "well, it's a bit irresponsible but they can handle themselves well enough". There isn't (or wasn't, anyway - I think this "no drawn images of anything that may look like a child being sexualised" law is a bit ridiculous, as is all the fear of photographing your own kids, etc.) as much of a fear of it being this horrible thing if young teens have sex, I don't think. (Although I'm not culturally very attuned, so who knows?)

And that's the problem with taboos - people who come from a different culture where these things are standard are hurt by them and made to feel like horrible, disgusting people. People who have been caught photographing their own kids on an innocent fairground ride and have been legally forced to register as sex offenders, and been tarnished with that label, are made to feel like horrible, disgusting people. People who try to talk about the situation in nuanced terms, rather than "I hate all pedos and anything that looks like them!" rage, are made to feel like horrible, disgusting people. That's not fair, and it doesn't protect any kids.

(As for dolls with morally deficient storylines - well, Seimei's from the manga Loveless. Loveless depicts no explicit sexual activity, is sold on the shelves of bookstores in the US and worldwide, and is super-popular and critically acclaimed, but I don't think the backstories or current stories of any of the characters would be allowed on this forum: Seimei's a child/teenage sociopath who's been known to set people on fire, and there's all kinds of complicated underage sexuality going on. So I have a dog in this fight, because just about any canonical photostory I wanted to do involving Seimei would involve things that are, at best, questionable by the rules of this forum and by current taboos.)

 

^ This. There has been times in the past when I'm surfing through Puki threads then suddenly, BAM, NAKED PUKI WITH MODDED BIG BOOBS, or, BAM, BDSM PUKI!

I'm not one to judge, but I wish they keep out or at least, give a warning first, before posting that kind of pics in a general puki threads.

 

Why not post on ConDoll rather than on an officially PG13 board like this? It's like coming to a vegetarian restaurant and making a scene because they won't serve you a raw steak. It's not about freedom of art, it's simply about choosing an appropriate venue.

 

I hate it. Any form of art that uses a representation of a child body for adult theme disgusts me. I can't think of anything involving children and sex/drugs that appeals to me to the least. Moreover, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with anyone who produces such garbage. Not even pity.

I won't click on such stories--Don't worry. I keep thinking what people with these ideas for doll sets really have in mind. ~Gus

 

I have absolutely no intent on posting any photostories I did make of that nature here (I haven't made anything yet and don't know if I ever will), because they're against the rules and against what seems to be the prevailing trend of things on this forum. I'm not arguing for my right to post anything, including on ConDoll or anywhere else; just saying that I have an emotional connection to the issue, because things related to fandoms that I enjoy are being thrown into a category by some posters of "awful disgusting things that no one should ever want to think about". It's fine if you don't want to think about them, but I resent the implication that anyone who has reason to think about them, ever, ought to burn themselves in a pit of fire for existing.

I'm perfectly aware that such stuff isn't welcome here, not just in the sense of rules and law but in the sense of people's strong attitudes of negativity. I'm smart enough to respect those kinds of unspoken rules. Like SkadiGoddess, I'm more talking about how the implication that anything surrounding this topic is terrible and unforgivable makes me feel, as a person who hasn't done anything wrong except be a fan of a manga. And it's not just me, but anyone who might have found themselves a fan of a story where characters who just happen to be younger than the holy age of 18 do things that aren't completely G-rated, or anyone who might live in a culture where 18 is not the age of consent, and so forth. I understand what can and cannot be done because of the law: I'm just asking for a little sympathy for the idea that there are always corner cases, where perfectly moral and innocent people may find themselves wanting to portray a story where ages are ambiguous (such as the OP, who only wants to use tinies because they don't like handling the larger dolls, but could find themselves creating a story as a result that people think is "child exploitation").

 

Palartok, I'm sorry for all you've been through, but upon reading your original post again I can understand why people have responded in a certain way. Your initial post was brief and your only examples of adult themes were 'sex, drugs and rock and roll'. Perhaps if you had explained your concept more, people would have had something else to talk about.

As someone who has two undead tinies, one a ghost, the other a vampiric creature, I understand that sometimes characters don't fit the cute, chubby stereotype. When planning the face-ups for my girls I put a great deal of thought into how I could make them look tasteful and not gory. I don't want to upset anyone by parading a childlike doll splattered with blood around the forum. You talk about your characters experiencing a coming of age - it is possible to depict this in a sensitive, beautiful way, but unfortunately it is also possible to get it oh so wrong.

I'm sorry that you felt like the responses on this thread were a personal attack. Unfortunately there have been cases where people have given tiny-orientated photoshoots inappropriate names, coupled SDs and MSDs in ways which are highly uncomfortable and treated abuse and rape as a something that makes their character oh-so-unique. I think that this thread acted as an outlet for the frustration that those cases have created.

 

That was more along the lines of what I meant...the misuse of it being glamorized. Sorry for the misunderstanding! (I will also admit I am a bit leary because of truamatic BDSM-related things I will NOT go into here)

 

And sooo sorry for the double post...I'm still getting used to quoting on this forum...

By all means...thoughtful art on every subject is necessary...but there is a time and a place for it. DoA is for anyone 13 and older. Young teens can handle a lot...but having two childlike tinies hooking up, seriously drinking (think about what Jecissa said) and the like cannot be thought out in the same way as an older adult.

Oh yes...I became a member there and I mostly went for other controversial topics but there are some beautiful works there that just are NOT appropriate for DoA. Even there tinies doing adult sexual acts are no longer permitted b/c of the US's Protection Act. I think it was allowed before...correct me if I'm wrong.

Debate topics always go a bit sour and I'm sad to see people have to leave...

Soo...tinies in other situations (esp childlike ones) like gambling...smoking...drugs...gang related material...other adult themes that are NOT sexual...what are some thoughts on those?

 

I have to admit, seeing a puki hugging the neck of a great big bottle of rum makes me laugh. Especially a Pong...

Edit:

Its actually quite odd I was just thinking, you know these childrens beauty pageants? Where they really oversexualise young girls, in loads of makeup and odd costumes, that terrifies me.

 

My guess would be they simply want to tell a story.

My issue with that "if they make a taboo story, they must be messed up in the head" argument is, where does it end? Are you implying that anyone who ever makes any kind of story with any kind of taboo subject is a psycho? Anyone who's ever written or produced a horror film is a serial killer? Why is it not possible that they just want to tell a fictional story? To me, the automatic assumption that they're playing out some kind of fantasy says more about you than it does them.

 

man i can't see what the big deal is really. if something is that bad i'm sure the mods would delete them. and if something really offends you, you can alway click the back button...

 

It's not just about the mods and what's appropriate for DoA...it's also about the world at large...and if you're in the US...it brings in the law.

 

Also my reaction and exactly the same reaction on seeing people doing the same to child-like dolls.

 

This. The reason why it's taken me 7 pages to respond to this thread is, I don't even want a thread with a title like this popping up in the history of my "browsed sites" at work. I certainly don't want to see anything looking like suggestive pedophilia with tinies on my screen at work either.

I personally don't give two hoots what you do behind your door with your inanimate piece of resin, but the minute you slap it up on the Internet in any generally-frequented place (i.e. not a place like ConDoll forum or on some website with a big WARNING-DISTURBING THEMES banner) you're potentially dragging people into controversy who didn't want to be there, and it's irresponsible and jerky of you. And yes, doll companies, I mean you.

Aside from the potential legal implications, I simply don't find it attractive to have young-looking dolls having relationships with much older-looking dolls, or to have young-looking dolls dressed up in sexually suggestive gear. I don't mind a "punk" or a "rocker" look but a kiddie-punk look is a lot different from a kiddie doll in a garter belt with black tape on its resin nipples.