Angell-studio discussion

@Hornisse:
The pictures, the style, the outfits, even the LETTERS are almost 1 to 1 the same.
That is not inspired anymore.
That is copyied.
And as cool as the dolls are.
That's just....well...Art Theft

 

I see similarities, I don't see copies. Regardless, this is not the thread for this sort of discussion and I'm sure a mod will be along shortly to tidy up.

 

A list of accident identical stuff:

Black&Sebastian:
Black nails,
pocket-watch,
butler-job,
hair,
vest,
stripes on butler-shirt,
red eyes,
oh and IS that a swollow-tail??
(Not to mention Sebastian was called "Black" in the Noah-Arc of the Manga)

Ciel&Red/Blue:
obviously the clothes are "insprired" if not copied and changed a bit from original artworks, e.g. the hats, ribbons on back and hats, the fabrics are almost the same,
then the skulls Toboso often draws with him,
the POSE on the second pic, the skull is ABSOLUTELY THE SAME!!! Coincidence? D:
arrogant little uke-face!
cane,
shoes,
little Lord theme

Enough?

I posted this here so Angell Studio can say what they have to say about it.

 

Yeah and THIS was an WHOLE accident too....?

HAHA.

LUICFER from ANGEL SANCTUARY


LUCIFER from ANGELL STUDIO.

Edit :
Yes, the Lucifer is not on their Site anymore, I think its because Kaori Yuki was complete against it ^^

 

I did looked at the pictures. Critically. because if you accuse someone of "copying" someone, then their work should be near identical.

First picture, the only similarities is the color of the outfit and the hat. The rest of the outfit may be similar, but anyone with eyes can see they're different designs.

Second picture, both characters have hats, but they don't look the same. The rest of the outfits doesn't look the same. The only similarity between them is that they're both holding a skull.

Third picture...come on. The only similarity between these two is that they're both facing forward. I mean, really? And oh, they both have different-looking hats that's tilted to the sides....

And the fourth picture? Aside from the color of the outfit, what pray tell did AS supposed to copy in this picture? The color of the hair? The hair doesn't even look alike, let alone the outfit.

And are you saying that Yana Taboso copyrighted the laying down head-to-head pose now? O.o;;

 

If you say so, let's hear what Angell Studio has to say about it ^^

 

This has happened with Kuroshitsuji before. Dollmore copied an outfit from one of the characters. I think maybe because this is a whole different medium and not exactly a perfect graphic representation of the characters, it might be difficult to call them on this. Because it's a physical representation of the outfits/poses it seems to be more of a case of inspiration. However, it doesn't really say much for the artist at hand if they can't think of their own original concepts and are instead, stealing ideas from another well-known artist without their consent. IT saddens me that instead of being really involved in their work, some doll companies just seem to be trying to find cheap ways to play to their costumers interests.

Anyway, I think the mods would prefer we move this discussion out of the news thread. So, hopefully I wont have broken any rules...^^

 

Will send AS an email soon, since I don't think they will read this.

 

Agreed on the inspiration. I think the outfits are beautiful, and really, how many "original" butler outfit designs are out there or even the clothes that the younger ones are wearing? I don't think anyone can claim exclusivity to use of the color red, a jacket and breech set, or a pocketwatch and skull in promo pictures or resulting merchandise. I even saw a poster put up comparisons elsewhere (edit: that was posted up above me as I was typing this, so take a look ). They aren't exact copies even still - and for the sake of argument, even if they were (which I still don't see) - again, not the same laws over there as there are in other countries. So unless the dolls, the sculpts, the clothes down to the last buckle and billet are the exact same AND the country in which they were created or the country that has taken issue with designs have laws to address it - then it *might* be an issue, otherwise, I see it as a chance to enjoy craftsmanship that I or even a good number of hobbiyst and for-hire clothing creators are unable to create.

Aside from copyright laws being nothing like they may be in America - what is the first thing a good percentage of doll owners do? They mod their doll in homage of a character or person or style and this is anywhere from a single cosplay outfit to getting the most exact possible match they can with a DIM sculpt, mods, and body designs to the very last scar or tattoo. If anything, Angell-Studio's costume design and character inspirations make me want to go *buy* the manga and read it. The reverse is true for Angel Sanctuary, I was a fan of that series and collected all of it and other merch long before I even knew BJDs. Now I have a Lucifer sculpt and I can see a slight connection to the Kira/Lucifer character(and even still only if I dress him as such or really try hard to make the connection), and I am thrilled to have it.

And yes, I ordered the Mix Black wig and suit set. Love it, can't wait to see it. If I did not just purchase a doll from them, the whole set would have been purchased and I would have been damn pleased to buy it.

 

@Isola:

As dissonant said it is a pity that Angell Studio seems not to be able to create their very own design.
And I do think that in some way it is stealing, since, at least the red outfit is 1 to 1 the same.
That also is, what makes me, LucifersChoice and MihaelKeehl get mad like this.
It's just not right to grab another artists idea and (in ANY way) use it for your own.
Even if you just remodel the whole thing a bit.
The pictures proof that Angell Studio was at least in touch with Kuroshitsuji for these dolls.
And as an artist myself I just dislike to see such things happen!

 

Tekila - they have plenty of original designs much like any other company, but there comes a time where (and this is if it has not happened decades ago already in any size clothing or style be it doll or human) where everything has been done already in some form or fashion. If the choose to cater to client wishes to make a "butler" and "little lord" outfit than that's opening up a whole new can of worms to look back and see how many buttler and little lord inspired manga and stores there are out there.

I mean come one, someone cited black nails, cane, red, eyes and a vest as a point in favor of copying? That can fit the discription of how many dolls on this website alone or how many devil costumes be it doll or human?

I just fail to see how a red outfit, or a butler set is grabbing at something other than Victorian, Edwardian, and many Europian countries style of dress that decades, and even centuries later, became popular in *many* manga stories.

 

complete agreement. i hate copying but honestly you guys are overreating ^^; i'm into fashion and i know companies that do 100% copies of shoes and clothes which are very distinct and guess what? nothing happens. this is purely inspiration, they look similar sure, but you cannot say they look 100% the same, anyone can see that

& with the angel sanctuary dolls, i don't think naming the dolls after the characters didn't do them any favours

 

With the Angel Sanctuary costumes, I could see the problem because they were very very specific to those characters (especially the Gabriel).

But Ciel and Sebastian's costumes look like any number of kodona or baroque (offshoots of lolita fashion) styles that existed long before the manga did. There are plenty of manga/anime/games that have been using this style for a while and there'll probably be more in the future because it's a trend.

Angell Studio's butler outfit looks less like Sebastian's butler outfit than like something out of Trinity Blood or Vampire Knight. Details of all three outfits are different enough from Kuroshitsuji that I'd say they are knock-offs, but not exact copies. That's good enough for me and personally I hope Angell Studio will continue selling these.

 

Hmm interesting ... it seems that they tried to market the dolls by suggesting similarities to a popular manga but I find if you take away the clothes and poses, the actual doll itself looks almost nothing like Kuroshitsuji.

 

While I meant the outfits are near exact as well as the poses. You can't really fault them for "copying" an outfit. There are quite a few cosplayers on this forum, are they copying/stealing this persons art in their outfits? What about the cosplay comissioners that are out there that will sell an outfit that is perfectly identical to the characters costume? They are profiting off that person's art as well. Are they committing art theft?

I'm not saying they didn't copy the outfits... I'm just saying I wouldn't exactly consider it art theft.

EDIT: In addition, looking at the dolls themselves as well.... they do not look much like the characters to begin with. It seems they are just dressed and posed to look like the characters. I pose like characters I cosplay all the time for pictures, Am I committing art theft? No, I'm cosplaying that character.

 

Im a Cosplayer ( of Sebastian Michaelis. ) and Artist too.
And I would be really mad if anyone would "steal" any Ideas of my Character Designs and Story.

Of course, I love the style of those Dolls( I love AS ), and yes, the "Red/Blue" ones are not exactly the same...but..c'mon..
its so obviously TO MUCH inspiration they get from the Manga.
Dont you see it ?._.""""""""

Sry my english is to bad for this I think, I can't explaine exactly what I want to say,Im sorry.
But I think I will Email Yana Toboso about this...just to see what she thinks about that.

 

Was the Angel Sanctuary case even a "case" to begin with?? I'm pretty sure I just remember Angell Studio just being scared into taking down the images...

Looking at this I feel there's a clear inspiration from Kuroshitsuji. The way I see it is that people don't get sued or get into any trouble for selling fanart or doujinshi and Angell Studio is not selling these dolls as the characters from Kuroshitsuji itself. I think Angell Studio's situation now is a bit messed up though. I mean, wouldn't having it say at the bottom "the costume and image concept is not our own but copyrighted to so and so but the dolls are works by us" have been fine ((especially in the case of the Angel Sanctuary stuff where it was a more direct cosplay))?? Now they haven't made it a direct copy or cosplay so it's not entirely their own but not entirely a copy either... I kind of have a feeling of half and half.... It's a half fanart and half "original" concept and thus neither party can claim the work fully or have the work fully credited to themselves.

Though I wonder... If a work is inspired by an artist, but the artist of the work that was inspired by the original didn't say anything about the inspiration, not because they were trying to steal the design but because they just didn't think to do it or didn't do it... Would that still mean they were trying to claim the work as their own??

Either way... All this could have been prevented ((imo)) if people didn't scare the bejeezus out of them with Angel Sanctuary and just suggested they explicitly say that the outfits/images were cosplay/fanart of Angel Sanctuary and/or that they were copyrighted to Kaori Yuki and not their own work. This way they could have just done full cosplay shoots for their dolls?? I think that would be pretty cool to see personally...

And while I'm at it... I also think that the doll community is a bit too quick to jump to conclusions and goes about these things in a very ugly and violent way. Wouldn't it have been a bit more diplomatic and less dramatic and stressful to just tell Angell Studio that they may be doing things wrong? Then if the company deals with it in a bad way, going to the artist and then possibly saying bad things??? I personally think that the people at Angell Studio must just really like these shows... BJDs aren't directly linked to anime ((they just fit in with the asian aesthetic)) so to say that they're using cheap tricks to appeal to customers is a bit inaccurate and harsh. People seem to forget that what we see as "anime" in our foreign countries is seen as a normal tv show or movie in asian countries and so there aren't "anime people" and the "anime hobby" doesn't really exist to appeal to to begin with. So unless they're trying to appeal to the small demographic of "anime people" that are into BJDs and the even smaller demographic of Kuroshitsuji fans who are into BJDs, I doubt that was their intention.

It hardly does us any good to go saying bad things about the company and ruining their reputation on the forums before they even get a chance to defend themselves. I personally really like Angell Studio's dolls and would rather not have to deal with the negative stigma that may end up attached to my Angell Studio doll due to people on the forum badmouthing the company.

 

These are nice, but I've seen many who imitate black butler.

 

They are TOO awesome ! X3 I want them all T_T Why Am I so poor ? T_T

 

Seriously - these pictures don't really look alike other than the general feeling (except for the second pic). Many people drew pictures like these because they have a strong effect on the viewer - still, I wouldn't think that you want to say that the mangaka copied all those hundreds of artists who drew poses/clothes/scenes like these?