Angell-Studio's Gabriel & Lucifer Discussion

I'm not going to comment on the legal aspect of angell-studio using Kaori Yuki's designs as I'm not very informed on the rules and regulations regarding copyrights, trademarks, et cetera.

I do feel the need to say that it's going too far by claiming that "Angell-Studio is using the clothing to sell the dolls." The sculpts, "Gabriel" and "Lucifer," weren't ever pointed out to be related to Angel Sanctuary prior to this incident. Also, if you check the site, Gabriel is actually an open-eyed version of Lilith while Lucifer is just a different representation of their doll, Adam.

I can't speak for the other Angell-Studio fans, but I've been wishing for an open-eyed version of Lilith ever since I first laid eyes on her. If not for a lack of funds right now, I wouldn't hesitate to buy "Gabriel." If Gabriel had been released as simply an open-eyed Lilith, I don't think my reaction would have changed; I'd still want her because I'm fond of her sculpt.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that the use of the outfits from Angel Sanctuary don't, or, at least, shouldn't, detract from the integrity of the company's sculpts. The articles in question here aren't the dolls but the clothes they're wearing. I just want to clear this up before we go and start bashing the dolls as well as the clothes. D:

 

I didn't say a single thing was wrong with their dolls--I'm wondering why Angell-Studio chose to market the sculpts using derivatives of someone else's work. Why not design something new? What I think is sad is that they didn't think up their own clothing, and that they didn't get Kaori Yuki's permission before copying her work. Why not depend on their OWN creativity and ability? Do you see what I mean? (I guess my point is, the dolls are pretty enough on their own merits that they don't NEED to be linked to a popular manga series to be sold--is that clearer? I don't want anyone to misunderstand my position here)

(although, if they aren't using the clothing/make-up/overall connection with Angel Sanctuary to sell the dolls . . . why RENAME them? Why not just say, "This is Adam with cool make-up?" I could give them Gabriel because of the different sculpt, but Adam/Lucifer casts doubt on their intentions in my eyes)

 

I've ordered from Angell Studio. I've got one of their first 1/3 girls, a Monica (sadly they don't sell her anymore), and one of their 1/4 girls, a Vera. They're legit and all, if you're worried about not getting your doll. =)

And they're nice dolls! Especially for the price!

(*Sigh* Adding Lucifer to my wishlist.....)

 

So was I, but I meant that I don't see much of a moral distinction between either.

I've gotta admit that I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that they're using the clothing to sell their dolls. If they were selling the dolls with the limited costumes, it would be one thing. But it's just the basic doll, no clothing with it. The clothes are just window dressing. It's like saying that when Luts drapes a cloth over a doll (Elf El 2006), they're trying to use a white cloth to sell the dolls.

I know of Angel Sanctuary but I don't know the characters well enough to connect the dolls with the anime, and I'm pretty sure there are others who won't make the connection. Popular as Angel Sanctuary is, it's not a worldwide well known enough series (like say...Harry Potter) for them to sell it in hopes that fans of Angel Sanctuary will want to buy the doll.

As for why choose to do it then...Maybe someone in Angell-Studio is a big fan of Angel Sanctuary? Who knows? It's not like they actually said, "Come and get these dolls from Angel Sanctuary, with outfit and all". At the moment, it's just dolls dressed up nicely. Until they actually sell the outfits with the doll, this is almost like cosplay to me.

 

I would completely agree with you without the names. However, that tells me that someone wants the connection drawn between the characters in the manga and the specific photos of Gabriel and Lucifer. Although I would be a bit skeptical if the outfits just randomly appeared in their store one day, I'm very skeptical now that they've connected the oufits with the names *shrug* It would be different if the clothing appeared on the dolls with their regular names or different names altogether. I would have liked to buy Jibriel's outfit sanctioned by Kaori Yuki, but I just don't think that's the case here.

 

If you know of Angel Sanctuary, then the names would help make a connection, but if you don't know the series, then the names doesn't make a difference anyway. I wasn't saying that they're trying to make no connection to Angel Sanctuary. But I am saying that as the dolls come as a basic set without clothing, I wouldn't consider that they're using the clothing to sell the dolls. Even by using the same name, it still just seems like a cosplayed doll.

 

I heard that this company does get permission and they also helping to promo the doll company, something like it

 

I agree with you.
The doll is the most important.And the doll shouldn't be involved.I love the Lucifer but not the clothes he wears.
But I think AS should think about such things.It matters a lot.

 

I feel the same as you D: I absolutely adore Gabriel's mold, i couldn't care less for the character really as i've never read Angel Sanctuary. But you are right in saying that Gabriel and Lucifer are simply different versions of their current molds they offer. Not new molds created entirely for these characters.

Reading through this thread has made me worried about buying a Gabriel myself. But i don't intend on ever purchasing those clothes (not my sort of fashion) However i really do want a Gabriel, to me, she is a beautifull doll.

Now if the doll molds themselves were copies, that would be a real concern. But since they're not and AS doesnt actually sell the outfits 'as of yet' then i don't see much of a problem. Maybe because i don't understand this whole copyright thing, but you can't go pointing fingers yet =/ not untill they DO start selling the outfits.

 

I think if you buy doll its own its ok, but cloth might have some problem, since they are copyrighted item. But AF still not allow to use it for promotion, I don't think that's legal

 

That what i'm worried about aswell D: and the thing putting me off buying the doll. I'm completely against plagiarism because i'm an artist and designer myself =/

I hope AS clears this all up soon D:

 

the thing is, Japan already let people doing lots second production, like doujinshi is everywhere...so I don't think they are going to do anything to AF, which is kinda sad

 

I think you're okay with getting the doll if you want her--it seems like it's only the clothing that is copied. I completely understand holding the company responsible for its copying of the outfit by not buying the doll, though. Is that what you mean? I can be the same way; I believe strongly in protecting the rights of people who work hard to make pretty things for me to buy. I guess wait and see how they market the clothing? But you probably don't want to miss out on the great price for the doll.

 

Now AS has appologized and doesn't sell the two dolls.
But I think they will make more beautiful clothes.
I'm waiting for Lucifer releasing again.I love him so much!

 

Maybe they just have to take pictures of Gabriel in different outfits. Adam is okay with his normal selling page, I would think, and Gabriel the doll isn't a copy of anything. Without the clothing, my earlier point about the names doesn't apply.

 

This makes me really sad - I hope they put them back up for sale again, I really wanted them!!!

 

Me too. =/ I was planning on getting a lilith head and a Gabriel, so I could have a sleeping version of the same character. If push comes to shove, I'll order a full doll and a head, and just have the eyes opened on one. Because Lilith/Gabriel was pretty much perfect for one of my characters.