Ball- jointed Dolls in Arabic Countries

Diana92 and shujo, okay, thanks for the info. I was curious because I speak a little Arabic and I've recently gotten an Arabic penpal so I was wondering what to call them when talking to her, lol. Thanks!

 

Very interesting discussion. I not much can tell on a theme, besides, that traveled on many states of India. Both in Christian and in Muslim states sell as traditional dolls and Barbie in beautiful national suits. I often happen in the countries of the Near East and I want to take the first time with myself a doll. Now I have reflected, whether there will be at me problems at customs inspection passage....

 

I've actually seen Fullah in Malaysia when I visited the country early this month. Malaysia is an Ismalic State but not all people who live there are Muslims. They have Chinese and Indian minorities who are Buddhists, Hindus, Christians etc. It took me several days to find Fullah, the Islamic fashion doll displayed in a shop in the capital Kuala Lumpur, the dolls were 36" to 42" tall! Giant size! That explains why I did not buy one. I did not visit Toys R'Us where I was told might have the 12" version. She's pretty, love her costumes. I saw many many Barbie dolls in malls everwhere, they are fully clothed. There are many play dolls but I did not see any collector dolls, did not see any BJDs. I assume it is not wrong for Muslim young girls to play with dolls in Malaysia. I did visit a hobby shop in Kuala Lumpur which sold boy kimonos for 12" Obitsu type bodies.

I wish somebody from the Middle East or a Muslim would post here. I think religion does dictate what we can and cannot collect. I'm an Evangelical Christian, I have friends who won't allow their daughters to play with dolls because they are in human form (idol) and Barbies teach wrong values. I had always played with dolls and today I am able to collect dolls and keep my faith. Different people in the same faith have different believes when it comes to dolls. Some are tolerant while others are not. It depends on the individual. Different pastors also have different believes.

 

This is a perfect example of differences within any particular religion that can be applied to the Muslim religion as well. I was also brought up in a very Christian family- we went to church and Sunday School every week, my parents and I both served on the Church Board, I taught Bible School and Sunday School, and my mom was the church organist. I went to a Parochial college. However, we were not Fundamentalist or Pentacostal. The term "evangelical" simply means you adhere to the Bible and it's teachings, although "Evangelical" with a capital "E" has come to represent Fundamentalist Christians. In other words, yes, we were taught the Bible.

The idea that dolls would be sinful is completely out of the realm of how I was raised- I always loved dolls, as did my mom.

So- two completely different representations of the same basic religion. The same applies to the Muslim religion. It isn't "one size fits all." When my daughter's mother-in-law was here from Bombay (and she is a devout Muslim, prays five times a day, etc.) she brought me a doll from India. Before she left I gave her a little Hujoo Berry that I had made a salwar kameez for (because that's what she wears).

 

Confusion about what one religion believes can occur even within the same major religion. I have been told by Fundamentalists that I am not a Christian because as a Catholic I believe in The Pope not Jesus. This was confusing to me as a child, and supremely irritating as an adult. Due to my own experience I try not to assume that I know what other religions believe. There's too great a chance I'll sound ignorant and rude.

There are quite a lot of Middle Eastern, Indian, and Pakistani immigrants where I live. Women in all manner of traditional clothes and modest apparel shop at the store where I work, from saris to burqas. I have seen the daughters of women in hijab carrying dolls. As has been said by many others I don't think there is a religion wide ban on them.

I would however be mightily interested in learning if there are any specific rules in religions or religious states that might effect collectors.

 

This has always bothered me, since I am an Evangelical Lutheran, and Evangelical Lutherans are actually the more liberal of the Lutheran denominations. :P

Either way this thread was a very interesting read. I truly enjoyed reading about BJD collector's from around the world and how things differ in their cultures.

 

THIS. SO MUCH.

I'm muslim & saving up to own a bjd! I wear a tudung/headscarf/wdv you call it and cover up. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm conservative though most assume I would be. From my point of view, I'm not. It's all relative to to your own viewpoint. I'm from Singapore (and not Arab!) though and here it's very secular. People wear the shortest shorts (it gets really hot sometimes) or cover up from head to toe and it's fine.

My family doesn't think it's a good idea to own one though I think they're more freaked out by them (like most people here already face) and using the realism/idolisation thing as an excuse not for me to get one which is so not valid since I grew up with barbies and jennys and those baby dolls (my relatives think I love dolls as a kid but I think I love them more now then then =X). But, yeah, the realism/idolisation thing exists. To me, it depends on your intention for your doll. It's like poker cards and gambling. (gambling is prohibited in islam, fyi) If you're just gonna play the cards without gambling it's okay.

I can think of some of my muslim friends who would oppose against owning bjds and other muslim friends who might jump on the bjd bangwagon with me. It depends on the culture that they're exposed to. It would be easier for those already into the jpop/vkei/goth/cosplay/doll culture to accept the bjd culture. Basically, what I'm saying is, you and I (& our friends & family) are not that much different besides our religion.

To the person who wanted to create a muslimah doll (sorry I'm noob here and don't know how to reply with multiple quotes), I think that's awesome. & I think I can sway my mum on my side if I did that. =P For 'Eid, we dressed up my plushie doll with muslimah attire with head gear and everything & everybody liked her!

Regarding genatalia, I think it's the same for everyone regardless of religion. There's a thread on discussion regarding being shy towards your dolls genatalia when undressing. Personally, I was quite shocked when I found out about it but I accept it. It's not like the dolls are going to be naked everywhere. In galleries where they are going to be, most people would warn you about it in the title. I'm sure there would be strict muslims/christians/jewish alike who would be offended with it for the same reasons. Whether it's against Islamic law though, I can't say for sure sice I'm not a scholar but I'm okay with it.

 

This isn't true actually- especially since the environmental cues you receive are mostly subconscious. Everyone relies on their environment though- it's built into us, it's human nature! Just think how different you feel inside versus outside, on rainy days versus sunny ones! I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean cultural expectations instead of physical environment, and then I'd also have to say that isn't true either. Our culture defines our every belief and aspect from the time we're babies until the day we die- regardless of what it is, or how much you rebel. A member of the Islamic faith could very well have a bjd- in fact one of my friends is Islamic and she was really into the whole idea. Any faith can enforce modesty as one of it's tennets- look at religious Sects like the Pentecostals and the Amish. Same thing. We are all dependent on our culture- and for those of us who rebel against it, how could you rebel without it? What would you rebel against? You had to learn your culture and your environment in order to decide what you liked and what you didn't.

 

yes i live in a city there name Jeddah
i didnt know you are a muslim too, i am happy to know about you

 

Tennyo- I was also raised in the "Evangelical Lutheran Church", so that's why I know what evangelical really means. I remember talking to a fundamentalist friend one time who was asking me about it and said, "But is it evangelical?" My reply was "???", and they said "Do they preach the Gospel?" I personally can't imagine a Christian church that doesn't preach the Bible, so I found that pretty confusing.

However, I did go to the much more conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran Church when I was very young and there was never, ever any ban against dolls or any type of toys. I think it might be that Fundamentalist or Pentacostal Christians would not think the dolls themselves were sinful, but that wasting time with anything frivolous would be. Of course some BJD dolls are pretty dark and I could see them having problems with those as possibly being Satanic or something.

Maraschino- I wear a cross and I'm not a Fundamentalist; I don't know why it seems like so many assume if a Muslim woman wears a headscarf she's a Fundamentalist Muslim and probably a terrorist. Since my daughter married a Muslim man and I now have many wonderful, loving Muslim relatives, I take that attitude as a personal insult and I have had many fights with my Conservative friends about it.

But as I said, my daughter's Mother-in-Law actually brought me a doll, which I don't think she would have done if she felt a doll was sinful or forbidden. I also gave her a copy of my book, Resin Life, and from what I understand she showed it to all of her relatives when she returned to Bombay. Again, if she thought dolls were sinful I don't think she would have done that.

 

Maroschino
Nice to hear from someone of the Islamic faith. Good to hear that you saving up for your first doll. When she comes home, hope you make for her a traditional Malay dress. I think your family will love her when she comes home!!

cirquemon: I was from Singapore before migrating to Canada. When I was a teenager in the 80s, I started attending a Charismatic church in Singapore, my family remained Buddhists. The church was extreme in its teachings. I was told to destroy all items, antiques, pictures and artifacts relating to the dragon. Dolls are in human form, they can become idols and can be demon possessed. Yes! I remembered clearly what I heard over the pulpit because I was freaked out. We cannot watch certain movies, cannot read certain books, cannot listen to certain music etc.

I'm glad I left that church. Pastors from other churches in Singapore and Canada do not preach like this. In Canada, I was told by my Canadian friends that Charismatics and Pentecostals are related to the Evangelical Church, more like subsets. Very few people in North America know the difference between the Charismatics and the Evangelicals and so I assume the Charismatics are a subset of the Evangelicals.

Differing views from religious leaders cause confusion and frustration. My current pastors from the Pentecostal church in Canada are very liberal. I bring all my resin boys to church and there isn’t any trouble. Even Soom Sphaler which is related to the oriental dragon survived attending church. The pastors did not even object to dragons but said that if I feel uncomfortable with dragons, I should continue the ban but they made clear they did not think it is necessary to keep dragon artifacts out.

Fullah, the Islamic fashion doll is really cool. Instead of banning children from playing with dolls like some Christians, the Muslims created their own doll. That's just so cool. Totally respectful.

 

Stargazer- I grew up in the Central Valley of California and we did have all the sub-sets. It can get very complicated trying to figure it all out, because a lot of them are small, independent sects that form spontaneously and are not associated with any established group. But I had Charismatic friends in high school who were not allowed to cut their hair, could not show skin on their arms and legs, etc. So they had to wear long-sleeved dresses and long skirts, and had special outfits for PE. Since it can get very hot in the Central Valley (temperatures over 100, up to 110 or more in the summer) it must have been pretty uncomfortable. Since I didn't know these girls when they were little, I don't know if they had dolls or not.

 

Aren't dragons really mis-identified dinosaurs?

Back to topic... How do the BJDs pass customs in countries where nudity is forbidden? When I was in sixth grade one of my teachers had returned from teaching in Saudi Arabia and she was saying that all the magazine subscriptions arrived at the door heavily censored with permanent marker. Would they censor bjds coming in?

 

I've received most of my dolls naked with no problems, but I must admit that I always feel nervous when ever a naked doll sent to me.

I don't know what will I do when I order spiritdoll proud boy body for my DS Rosen (maybe I'll have nightmares until the body arrives safely home)

 

Sorry, a bit OT, but just responding to another post:

Someone posting here mixed up right brain and left brain... the left hemisphere controls the right side of the body and is responsible for analytical thinking etc, the right hemisphere controls the left side of the body and is responsible for creative thinking, etc. A bit overly simplified, but basically correct.

Very interesting topic. I would also like to know what the actual name is for "BJD" is in arabic, and if it has any clues as to the social, cultural implications of them (the dolls).

 

Same here. Isn't that kind of supposed to be the point? lol

 

Hi there shoujo!! thank you so much for all your explanations!! actually, there are no customs in SA right? but how does your doll arrive with no problems? i mean that they are very strict over there. Could you possibly be living in Jeddah rather than Riyadh? I am asking cause i will be coming to KSA for holiday soon. Customs in Jordan (where I live) are extreamly high, and go up to 54% of the original price! So maybe it is safer to deliver it to KSA. What do you think? Your openion will be appreciated!!

 

Hi everyone!! I am from Jordan, and I have been having a doll for one and a half year. I am planning on getting the next 2 soon. There is no problem in buying dolls here, although I havn't seen anyone here with one. The only issue with everyone (my family and friends) was that it is expensive. Other than that, all my friends and everyone who saw my LUTS doll Yder adored it!! Actually, after seeing my doll, some of them want to save up to get their own!! The biggest issue here (in my openion) was the customs duty! Well, Amman (capital of Jordan) is concidered the most expensive city in the middle east, and customs (when I bought my doll in 2008) was 54%, which is extremely expensive!!! It may have raised by now!

Everyone around me appreciates my hobby, and find it as a good "past time". Even my husband doesnt object it.

How I save up to buy them? I don't do any job cause I am a student. My husband kindly gives my allowence, and every 5-6 months I would be able to afford one. If I save up well I can buy an SD BJD! I think that BJD are irresistable!! they are so lovely!! they teach you patience!

I hope that this helps!! If there is anyone from Jordan or KSA, pls PM me so that we meet up! I go to KSA from time to time!

 

Hello Khateerah and welcome to this thread

Yes, there's no taxes in SA and I live in Riyadh and almost all of my doll arrived safely accept for 1 because of someone in the post office but it happened as individual act.

I recommend you ship the dolls to SA but you should use premium EMS shipping like Aramex or DHL or FedEx
which you prefer ( just to be on the safe side )

 

I'm really surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet! I think that one's religion could affect what one collects, or at the very least how someone views something like a ball-jointed doll. I asked a friend of mine from Bulgaria what his Iranian (also Muslims) friends thought about anatomically correct dolls. They were a tad unnerved by the idea, but then they are pretty liberal minded. Their wives don't wear the headscarves either. I know that not everyone in the Middle East or Malaysia is Muslim, just like not everyone in America is Christian. It's easy to over-generalize and stereotype (not accusing anyone of that here), but I think that it would definitely come down to individual preference wherever you live. I should think though, that even if your religion forbids nudity that as long as you weren't treating the doll as a sex-object or something and dressed the doll it wouldn't be an issue. Radicalism does rear its ugly head from time to time though, wherever you are.

I'm Pagan, so my religion doesn't have any comments to make on the idea of owning a ball-jointed doll. Of course, there are no "problems" so to speak associated with nudity or dress or anything like that.