Ball- jointed Dolls in Arabic Countries

Yeah I went to Dubai just this past summer and our friends who lived their said part of the culture was that inanimate objects looking like humans were not usually deemed acceptable, and that was why a lot of manequins were missing heads and such. I was told not to bring out my bjd ^^;;

 

I'm a Muslim ^^ But then again, I live in Singapore and with our fusion of different cultures and racial and religious harmony, I daresay the Muslims in our country are much more open-minded than those in the Middle East, so I may not really be the best judge

My dad is suitably strict with me when it comes to religion, like not wearing short shorts in public and not painting my nails, but he does let me go out in short-sleeved tops and doesn't insist I wear a headscarf. He does actually highly disapprove of the BJD hobby because as Muslims who pray to one god we're forbidden to (literally) worship any sort of idol. In a widely general term BJDs aren't allowed in our religion because they resemble humans too much and may sway our loyalties.

However, I really only see dolls as a physical expression of artistic creativity. Also, when I showed my doll and explained about him to my devout Muslim friend's grandmother, instead of balking, she appreciated the way he was crafted and said he was "very pretty". She also told me it was sweet how affectionately I talked about him. So like stargazer_i said, different people in the same faith have different beliefs.

Just in case you were curious, Dad deals with my liking for them by making a compromise with me not to display my dolls prominently in the house.

 

I would like to say that Ihave really enjoyed reading a genuine debate for once about real issues that affect people in the wide world of bjd ownership.
It is good to see the discussion taking loops and turns and showing a genuine regard and desire for knowledge. welldone to all who have taken part it is wonderful to see this topic instead of the usual shallow discussions.

 

I'm a 29 yr old Muslim in Brunei Darussalam. Great points by hyschara and true also in Brunei. (Idol worship, looking like human)

After reading through the posts, I'm not surprised even within a small country such as Brunei we have a different mindset. It goes without saying here there are strict muslims, then there are the easy going muslims. Also there are other cultures here such as indian and chinese. In my family, my parents are quite devout muslims, but they do not force us to wear hijab. Instead we ourselves know when is the right time to wear shorts (the beach), wear hijab and baju kurung to religious functions and so on. Being a muslim is not being oppressed, maybe it just enforced too strongly in many Middle Eastern countries and sometimes I see it happening in Indonesia as well that the world view all muslims being treated as such. But no no.. instead the Muslim culture is all about moderation and about peace. And our way of life is guided by the Holy Quraan. There are reasons why we cover our hair, dress modestly, dont eat pork, dont have dog pets, we pray 5 times a day but I dont want to go into detail.

In terms of BJD, I got into the hobby in 2003 when DoA was still on Yahoo Groups as my good friend SephXIII (who is chinese) already bought her Razkil, a Volks SD13 F28 boy. We were already influenced with manga, anime at the time. At first I was shocked at the price, but considering she went through a shopping service in Japan at the time and went thru options etc, and his weight was considerable that made shipping so high, I saw the justification. After a few months, I got my first bjd, an Angel Region Little Fair Dana. At the time I was studying in Miri, Malaysia and I wanted to fill time with a hobby (my main hobby is photography actually) so I got a BJD to practice photography and dabble in story writing. It turns out I began to learn how to sew as well in the process! Many dolls incoming and outgoing .. 7 yrs later, i'm still here and restarting yet another storyline and another crew and friends joined in too!

Anyway back to the questions:

About customs, Bruneian Customs do check every parcel and we claim them by going to the parcel center and open the box ourself and show them what's inside (for custom tax purposes etc). All my dolls received and shipped out never had any problem or tax however. The only sticky bits is that I usually avoid buying doll stuff / outfits with the image "cross" or cross necklaces, or crosses on the boots etc. Also no porn, no sex toys, no kamasutra magazines thru customs.

As for language barriers, I can vouch for Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia that English language is taught as early as Kindy (i even have young nieces and nephews who cannot understand Malay language and only speak english.. ^_^;; ) However, some companies really need to research names better because the term "puki" in puki puki and pukifee .. it means (how do i say this delicately?) .. the ladies private part. At least in the Malay language.. so i try to just label my flickr photos / gallery titles as PKPK or PKF.

Dolly nudity is fine (none of my muslim fellow photographers on flickr has complained yet! :P ) but sexual connotations are still taboo, personally I also dont want to write/photograph about that! :P

Great read, I just wish people knows more about Islam and not stereotype no thanks to media..

 

Oh orz I'm Malay but I did not know 'puki' meant... well, that. Thanks for the information.

 

That is so funny! Same thing happened to me with tutu. I used to do a lot of ballet costumes and ordered a lot of materials from a site called "tutu.com". For some reason my filter kept filtering it out. I finally told tutu.com, and they laughed and said apparently somewhere in the world "tutu" is a naughty word.

I feel the same way and I am a liberal Christian (not a fundamentalist). It just isn't something I care for.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but Americans in general are very ignorant about Islam, and our media is insane about it (mainly for political reasons). I know it for a fact-because that's how I was until my daughter married an Eastern Indian Muslim man and I began learning the truth about it. I met many of his family, and they are all wonderful, loving and peaceful people. They are devout but like you do not wear a headscarf, etc. His mother seemed to think my dolls were pretty- and she brought me an Indian doll as a gift, so I assume she is not offended by the idea of a doll.

 

This.
Also, the original poster posted 'Arabic' countries not Muslim countries, and also because of shipping costs and not religous beliefs? Maybe the original poster is Arabian wants some info on buying the doll. I really don't understand how the conversation developed to this point. When someone mentions 'Arabic' immediately stuff like Islam, close-mindedness and religious clothing pop up? What on earth are you all debating actually?

As a non-muslim from a Muslim country (I wouldn't even refer to my country as 'Arabic', fyi -___-) I find this thread mildly offensive and ignorant.

 

I'm sorry, but if you had noticed, the original poster of the thread, dante12,had just replied before your comment. It's understandable that you would think she wanted to know about the shipping costs and such, given her original post was short and rather vague, thus spawning all these responses. But she has made her clear point right before your post, and although this is quite a controversial topic, I must say the level of civil-ness and mature discussion here can hardly be called 'ignorant', given that the debate has nothing to do about whether Muslims are or are not allowed to own BJDs or etcetera-- on the contrary we (the Muslims) are merely discussing our points of view on being in the BJD hobby since our religion is very conservative.

Also, as dante12 mentioned, she is from Egypt, which is in fact an Arabic-speaking country. She did not mean Muslim countries in general, but because she didn't say so in the first post, people assumed she meant Muslim countries, which is also understandable since Islam originated from the Arabs. Please don't take it personally.

 

I just want to say thank you to all of the people who practice the Muslim religion and spoke here. I have learned a lot!

I do have an Aunt that is Muslim and lives in Saudi Arabia however the times she has come to the US and been with my family I was too young to be interested in religion and so I didn't talk to her about it all. However I do know that she allowed her daughters to have Barbies as long as they kept them in their rooms. I don't know if that is the norm by any means but I do know that she and her husband who is the Saudi Arabian native allowed it.

 

hey everyone! I just wanted to share a picture of my Lishe, Ash Rose

I'd love to meet more people from arabic countries who are in this hobby!!

 

Diana, she's absolutely beautiful.

On-topic:

I've never considered how Middle-Eastern countries handled such hobbies. This thread has actually been fairly educational for me. Most of the BJD hobbyists I personally know are either American, Korean, or British.

 

Don't we all? How many times do you hear people say some idea or ideology is wrong, stupid or unintelligent even, simply because they've just been confronted with something new and don't understand? They've just realized that not everyone sees the world like they do and the first response is to ignore it or ridicule it, because otherwise you might have to change your own ideas and that's more difficult. We all do it, no matter what country we live in or religion or ideology we believe in.

 

What an absolutely fascinating thread, and many thanks to everyone (especially the people from the Middle East, Asia, and North Africa) who've responded with so much information. As an historical costumer who's interested in the way fashion and culture relate, I've been rather fascinated by the range of Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian dress for a while, and I've been really wanting to make some costumes for my dolls, especially since it's not something you see very often.

I did a bit of research, and it appears that there is a quasi-BJD made specifically for Muslim customers: Arrosa I can't tell what she's made of, but it sounds like she may have some similarities with a BJD (full range of movement and pivotal joints. There's a better picture of a joint on the body here - I can't really tell...). That same link above has a lot of different Muslim dolls and outfits for sale. Anyone know if she's just like Barbie, or is she something like a BJD?

 

Isara - the description on your second link says the workers in the Arrosa factory are "dressing generic Barbie look-a-like dolls, that are produced in China, in Muslim headscarves and clothing". So it seems those dolls are nothing like BJDs, although their outfits will very likely work for the Barbie-sized BJDs such as Soom Mini-Gems (Uyoo, Aren), Soul Doll Metel etc.

 

Sorry but thats rubbish,
I know "Marluxia" has been banned but if you intend on participating in a debate stick to factual information.

Its been fantastic actually having some input from people living in Arabic coutries - I have a deep facination of cultures and religions the world over and if there were a degree for it here I'd be at school everyday.

Its truly facinating and exciting in some ways know that this wonderful form of art - our hobby - DOES reach into every corner of the globe and touches people from all races and religions.... I mean C'mon thats just so COOL!!!!! Across invisible boundaries a hobby connecting people from all walks of life!!!!

 

all of my old bosses at my last job were Muslim. They are actually some of the most OPEN-MINDED people i've ever spoken to. We had a very large amount of christians always trying to convert myself (a pagan) and them, (muslim). Often, Shadi (Pronounced "Shawdee") Would sit and talk with me about Paganism, and it's ideals. I gave him my bucklands' book of witchcraft, and he gave me an english version of the Koran. I read the Koran he gave me, and he read my book. I know he read it, because he told me about certain ideals regarding the history of paganism, and where it come from, and talked about things that he had no clue about originally. We talked about similarities (And yes, there are many) and differences (Again, many) in our faiths. He was always open to learning about my religion, and where i come from as well. Never once did he judge, or make crude remarks about me, or what i believe. In fact, when some of the christians started to attack me verbally, HE stood up for me, and wrote them up for religious harrassment. I think that his culture was very different. and that's great. I just loved that we could sit and have a convo about these things, and not upset one another. And just for the record, he ADORED my doll, Shandel. And she's nearly always dressed in short skirts, and tight fitting corsets with a dipping low cut in the front. Just because someone is Muslim, does not mean that they cannot appreciate female beauty of western culture. It is within THEIR OWN culture that it is so restricted, and even then, not always so.

 

I have two muslim friends, one more conservative than the other, both from Pakistan. As far as religion goes, human faces tend to be shyed away from, so as to not be confused with idoltary. Cultural pressure, it seems, would be more of a problem in owning a doll, as the owner knows thay aren't being idoltarous themselves.

 

Hi. I took my BJD with me to the Masjid slumber party right after I got her. I was read Hadiths and verses from the Holy Quran about why my doll was not a good idea, why even Fulla was not a good idea and why I would have to ask Allah (SWA) for forgiveness for my wickedness. *giggles* After prayer I made a dua (special prayer request) and was approached by a few of the older sisters from all over the Arab diaspora and asked why I got the doll, what I intended to do with it and if I really planned to keep her. When I said yes I was keeping her, that I got her to practice and learn fashion design with and that she was a creative outlet since I had no children and live not close to any of them needed a playmate. The responses varied from close minded and prudish to a sister that makes abaya offering to teach me how to make one for my doll as well as hijab and other muslim fashions that are rarely seen nowadays.
Now something I must say due to the previous posts is that narrow minded is okay to say regardless of where one grows up or is raised with Islam. The Arab culture boasts artists, poets, writers, dancers, musicians and you name it in the creative world including fashion designers and models. in every faith there is a division between the thumpers (fanatics and zealots alike) and those that appreciate the time in which they live. In countries where women are forced to cover in public, you should see the beauty of the garments they wear underneath when they remove those abaya and the variety of hair colors and styles when the hijabs come off. Fashion moves the Universe of female identity irregardless of regulations, religion and often economics.
In Iraq you can get Azeri folk dolls, and similar Tajik dolls in muslim China, Muslim Afghanistan, and many others where the Azari, Tajik and many others people have mingled and mixed in.
Google or YouTube Ballet Afsaneh, representing dances from the Silk Road regions of Central Asia: Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey if you would like to see the diversity in dress as well as modern yet ancient Muslim womens attire possible under the abaya and hijab or chador. Now back to the Middle East proper, when dealing with Saudi Arabia and its neighbors, one must remember that these nations are made up of tribes and that each tribe has/had its own way of dressing and adorning both men and women, these things have not been lost, just less commonly seen. If anyone wants me to dig and produce some examples for them pm me and I shall be happy to share what I know.
On a personal note, I dislike wearing a lot of black and love colors, so I asked often why we wore so much black, my mother said style, my aunties said style, a lady whose name I never knew told me it was the easiest color to become invisible in. Thats when I decided to learn fashion, to make colorful clothing that was modest, and where better to practice then on my doll(s)?