Being Labeled a "Flake" in the MP

I've sold dolls to people on layaway once in a while and am happy to work with them, even if an emergency comes up and they have to miss a payment, if they contact me the minute they realize they have a problem. By working with them, I mean that I might take smaller payments over a longer time if it would help them eventually get their doll or let them resume payments a little later. Even though it might technically be "flakey", I would not give them flakey feedback; I would just consider it a new negotiation to complete the sale. I would leave flakey feedback if they just stopped sending payment and didn't bother to communicate with me. Of course, if I see that the next day the buyer is squeeing over a new doll they just bought with the money they should have sent me for the layaway payment, it would probably discourage me from selling anything else to them.

 

Good thread. Good, indeed.

I'm always weary of the people who are all uptight about selling/buying and say things like "Do not contact me unless you're serious." I'm serious until I decide I don't want it. "No asking for more information and then not contacting me back." You're trying to sell something, you should try to appease the buyer. And especially "I'll leave you flakey feedback if you ask for information and back out." That is straight up against the rules.

So many people do this. It's quite upsetting. I agree with blackeyeliner. If you simply ask for shipping quotes, commission quotes, more pictures, you're not committing yet. You're not committed until you've said something along the lines of "I'd like to purchase this item."

 

I buy and sell on DoA. If I tell someone I am buying an item, I always follow through and I always send payment. I try hard to be the sort of buyer or seller that I myself would want to have a transaction with.

Like Linakauno I've always been pretty flexible with layaway payments and if someone needs to miss a month because of an emergency and they let me know ASAP, I'd be willing to work with them and not leave flakey feedback, unless they wanted to cancel the transaction completely and then I might consider it as now they've wasted my time and I need to find a completely new buyer.

I have left someone flakey feedback. I had someone a few years ago request some doll clothes from me and they asked to have them put on hold and promised payment at the end of the week. At the end of the week, they asked for another week. 2 weeks later I PMed them and asked them if they really were going to follow through and said if they didn't it was OK just to let me know now. They assured me they would pay at the end of the week. 1 week after that (making a total of about a month) I PMed them again and they apologized but said they were broke as they had spent all their money for Christmas on other things and no longer wanted the clothes. That person was left flakey feedback and in my mind rightfully deserved it. There are people like that out there and sellers have a right to know who those people are.

 

Inquiring happens not only on DoA, but in regular retail stores. You might want to get a new watch, see a few that you like, try them on, and decide you want to get something different and leave with nothing. It happens all the time, and it's not the mark of a flake, but a regular buyer.

When I was new here (and didn't really know much about modifications) I noticed someone had been selling a pair of forearms on the MP, and was confused as to why someone would be selling them. I inquired, but it was out of curiosity rather than intent to buy (I had no use for a random pair of forearms). Now, I understand why people would sell random parts, but new members who don't know a ton about dolls and the habits within the hobby might ask someone the same thing one day - they don't deserve to be marked a 'flake' for asking questions.

 

Like linakauno and rkold have said before me, there are two very different ways to dealing with an emergency in a layaway.

If you cannot make the months payment, be upfront about it and work out a new plan with the seller. If you follow through with that, everything's ok and there's no need for flakey feedback. Myself as a seller I'd need at least a portion of the instalment, I'd be a bit wary to give a full month off.

However, having an emergency and backing out of the layaway completely deserves flakey feedback imo.

That said, I cannot help but preach a bit about making doll purchases and layaway plans that you know you can go through with, even with a few unexpected expences. In my field of work I'm in constant contact with people who just didn't plan ahead, didn't have a 'financial buffer' (some money saved for emergencys, like getting unemployed on a sudden notice or getting hospitalized) but used all their monthly income on things bought on credit. When all your monthly income is used for necessities (rent/loan, food, utilities) and all the excess on different layaways (not talking just about dolls here, you can buy all kinds of things in installments: phones, computers, clothes, furniture, etc.) and in the worst case scenario, also paying debts to collection agencies (once you cannot make the payments to the original seller and they proceed to collection) your recourses are very thin if an emergency happens.

No doll is worth a bad credit rating, be that a flakey feedback on DoA or a real credit rating. Please make sure you can really afford a (luxury) item before you commit to buying it.

All the 'yous' in here are general 'yous'.

On the OP though, just inquiring about an item or selling conditions is not committing to buy (like many here have said). You cannot get flakey feedback for that, or if you do, report it to the Mods. Basically you have to have said 'I'll buy it!" or "Please put it on hold for me for a xxxx time, and I'll pay you then" to make a commitment.

 

Several time that happened to me... Some ask questions (a lot), and they said they paid for my service (buyed shoes to an Event Tenshi no sumika or Dollpa), they said paid later... i have seen nothing on money arrived and no mp to informed me ... worst... they have used another service Oo !!!!!!!!!!! for the next time, now i will leave bad feedback...

 

Here's my "Flakey Feedback" story. I had posted a list of items I was looking for in a Fukubukuro trading thread a while back. Someone PMed me with one of the items I was looking for wanting to sell it for a price that I was willing to pay and I accepted. However when the person sent me the information for payment I was told I would have to pay the paypal fees which was not disclosed before I accepted the offer. I decided I no longer wanted the item due to this because at the time my finances were very tight. When I informed the person that I no longer wanted the item I was told the only reason I was not being left flakey feedback was because I had been upfront about the situation.
However, I was the one who truly could have left flakey feedback(which I did not) because technically the terms of the sale were changed.
A lot of the issues people have with flakey feedback being left is 1. not knowing/remembering/understanding the rules and 2. Misinterpretation. It seems to me some people think that any inquiry on a specific item qualifies as intent to buy.

Just my 2 cents.

 

The problem with this is that a seller has no way of knowing if your emergency is real or not. If there was a clause saying that flakey feedback cannot be left for emergencies, I guarantee you there would suddenly be a lot more sick kids/pets, evictions and grandmas dying. Not many would admit to just changing their mind if lying about it would keep their records clean. Unfortunately, dishonest people ruin it for the few honest ones.

Agreed. Yes, it's sad that someone had some tragedy happen to them and they need money, but it is not a seller's fault or responsibility to play bank or make sure you have enough money to deal with emergencies. It is the buyer's responsibility to keep their contract or pay the consequences. It IS pretty flakey to be entering layaways on luxury items you won't be able to pay off when basic necessities are not planned out.

 

Some important points raised here. Personally, when I first PM someone to let them know I'm interested, that's all I say. That I'm interested. Sometimes even that I MIGHT be interested. That way I can get more information and pictures etc without committing too deeply. A buyer is WELL within their right to ask for as much information as they need before making a purchase, especially on a more expensive item. To my mind, the only time it could be considered "flaky" is when a buyer has expressed some level of commitment ie: "I've decided I want the doll" or asked for the seller's paypal address, and then backed out. Because at that point you've raised the seller's hopes.

 

As has been correctly pointed out there are already rules and guidelines in place for how and when to leave accurate feedback. It is vitally important that these rules and guidelines are understood! The feedback system is ONLY AS RELIABLE AND ACCURATE as the feedback left!!!

If you have ANY question about appropriate feedback left of leaving appropriate feedback PLEASE use the Ask the Moderators subforum to get help and information! "Flakey Feedback" is not at the discretion of a disgruntled member - really!

 

Shandrel, if you're having trouble with layaways, that's probably not the best way to go. It's not fair for the seller to do a layaway for you just to have you back out. It's not fair to put your daughter's health at risk for the sake of a doll, and it's not a good practice to put your bank account into the red for dolls. They are just wants, not needs. I don't mean to sound harsh, these are precautions that need to be taken. On top of that, the seller has no responsibility when it comes to their buyer's miscalculated finances.

What do you think us buyers (or browsers) should do to make you feel better about turning down something?
I don't think buyers should feel bad about turning an item down. Sometimes I feel bad as a seller when I have multiple people interested, so I tell the first buyer that if they would like it, let me know asap. The first buyer backs out because they feel pressured, and the second buyer wasn't a serious buyer either. I can understand this, but I hate feeling like I'm trying to pressure a sale since I want it to be a positive experience! I guess for buyers, just say "I won't be purchasing, but thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it." instead of "I'll PM later and maybe make a decision." The buyer needs to be straight-forward and honest about an item as soon as possible so the seller isn't stuck in the middle if another buyer comes along. ​

 

The only problem with this is that while, yes, legitimate emergerncies DO come up, the system would be profoundly abused by those who had simply changed their minds and/or found something they wanted more. I've seen it happen over and over again, and had it happen to me a time or two. Something "dire" and "unexpected" comes up and a buyer backs out of a sale they have already committed to (or are making payemnts on), and three days later, the same buyer is purchasing posting a WTB the MP with a note that they can pay immediately, or joining a waiting room for a new doll they've just bought.

This is not to say that ALL buyers who cancel a transaction are deceitful. But there was obviously a large enough pattern of this or similar behaviour found on the forum to warrant making a rule to discourage it.

I also believe that if anyone is riding that narrow of a line financially, they should not be committing to doll purchases. Dolls are luxury items, not necessities. Having a reserve of savings (that will cover or substantially cover) unforseen circumstances is a must, and should always take priority over spending on dolls.

The flaky feedback rule is a godsend for the Marketplace, but by no means should it be discouraging. I hope potential buyers will ask tons of questions before committing to a purchase, to make sure the item is the right commitment for them. I have had people send payment, then PM me less than an hour later asking for a full or partial refund because they chagned their mind or realized something wasn't the right size. Had the buyer done their research BEFORE committing, it would have saved us both tremendous hassle.

The rule is protection, for both buyers and sellers. It is simply a way discourage buyers from changing their minds or bailing on a commitment they have made to a seller; and a way to protect buyers from a seller who may change their minds or sell to someone who offers a higher price after already committing to a buyer.

 

Please disregard

 

I think my point was, in my case that i was so terrified of getting flakey feedback....i can't imagine i am the only person who feels that way.

For my cases, i ALWAYS keep as open communication as i can. The first thing i did was contact the sellers, explaining everything. And they were more than willing to work with me.. and that helped.

The reason i like "emergency non-payment" and think it would work is people can see.. just how many times a person has CLAIMED emergency.. if someone claims it for.. what..5 transactions in say 6 months? then the pattern emerges. But say, two transactions for a year period.. well that is.. a bit more real. I just think of the unforeseen instances...No matter how much you save or plan.. things happen.

Also as a newer member of the community, i fear that a single "flakey" feedback means i can't use the marketplace again. That people will check the feedback thread, see Flakey, and not read or think about anything else, thus making it impossible to "regain" a non-flakey feedback. And thus, shutting a new person.. out of the marketplace. I know i can not afford "new" dolls often... This would mean, if i got a flakey feedback.. i am effectively shut out of the community. For, in my case.. a emergency with my child.

I agree people who make promises and then just vanish, or go " ah. nope sorry i know i was buying but i am not interested" should get a flakey feedback, if they have made a payment...

But also, thing about this... yah'll complain about having to "find a new buyer" .....yet every doll i have seen, says payments are NON-REFUNDABLE.... this means you got.. essentially free money. Because you keep, what the flakey person sent AND get to resell the doll.... now i know different buying seasons ect. might make it more difficult.. but it feels like a double penalty. For some people, i totally agree it's fair.. but like i said, a person having to choose between a doll.. and their kid... ends up out the money paid on the doll, the doll itself.. AND the ability to buy more later.

The people who i worked with were wonderful, and it was quickly resolved, and i was even able to pay them off on time! However.. not all sellers are that.. forgiving, and all buyers are not.. upfront. I'm not saying leaving flakey feedback is bad or should not be done, but please be aware that newer people, might not fully understand what they are getting into, but Flakey, is a four letter word.. and a scary one.


And wow, thank you so much, for saying that since my daughter had an emergency, i should not buy dolls. I save for them... wow..Really? that's your response to the situation.. is you shouldn't BE buying dolls..... wow....I am speechless...I used my case as an example i did NOT back out of buying the dolls. i asked for an extension.

 

The best way to avoid flaky feedback is to not enter into a buying/selling arrangement that you may not be able to complete. Pretty simple, really.

 

But if you can't leave flakey feedback how is a seller to know that Buyer A has 5 or 6 or 10 times reneged on a purchase because of an "emergency" Are you suggesting that a Seller leave a note in the feedback that someone canceled a transaction because of a personal emergency instead? (and after a bit, wouldn't this note have the same stigma as "flakey" feedback?)

Most sellers only keep the non refundable deposit. I know if I had ever had someone break a layaway (which I've not, I've only had lovely experiences with layaway where my buyers completed the transaction and were terrific to work with.) I would not keep any additional payments. Sellers keep this "free" money because there is no guarantee they will be able to get the promised price the original buyer agreed to pay. New dolls are constantly coming out and IMHO there are very few dolls that are so in demand that new buyers are readily found again. The seller might very well have to ask a lower price when reselling the doll. And while this is not something I do, but having read enough Problem Transaction threads, sometimes sellers sell dolls because of their own financial issues and they need or have already spent those payments to cover their own bills.

I hope you won't think this is too harsh but, I think if someone has an emergency maybe once after a couple of years that is one thing and a true unexpected emergency, but if someone is having an emergency once or twice a year, it means they need to rethink their priorities and should instead work on getting their finances together rather than buying dolls. This is a luxury hobby.

 

This sums up my feelings as a buyer. I will not commit if I can not see it through to the end. This means I try to time my purchases and layaways to periods where I know I'll be able to cover the payment(s). It's not fair to the seller and it's not fair to any other buyers who are interested and CAN fully commit that might be waiting in line.

As a seller, I'd much rather someone tell me up front if something goes wrong. If I have to leave flakey feedback, that's something I would be sure to point out. "This person flaked, but they contacted me right away about it." is much better to have on your record than "This person is a flake. They never contacted me and didn't respond to PMs."

Flakey feedback doesn't mean you'll never be able to buy/sell/trade. There are some that will not enter a transaction with you, true, but the point of the feedback threads (as I see it) is to give an overall picture of you as a MP participant. Someone who has otherwise stellar feedback save for one or two flakey moments is someone that is probably going to be fine. The person who reads your feedback thread is generally looking to see if there has been any trouble, is there a pattern of trouble, how bad the trouble was, and how recent was any trouble. A flake or so in the past is not as alarming, personally, as a recent string of them.

 

Honestly, i won't be returning to this thread, I pointed out that the fear of getting flakey feedback, is a concern for new people. and having said that, obviously no one else agrees with me.

And also, when someone quotes me and tells me something, it does feel very pointed. Never mind when someone directly uses my name and states the same.

So, I added my two cents, and obviously it is not in line with others viewpoints. I only posted trying to explain why "flakey" is a scary thing. *shrugs* yah'll can take that into account or not. But i am entirely to upset over the feelings this thread has raised to me, a newer member, to continue to add my imput or point of view.

 

As someone who mostly sells, I welcome buyer questions and encourage buyers to ask me anything. If I can provide more information, I'll gladly do so, because the last thing I want to deal with is a buyer who purchases something on a whim and then has buyer's remorse. That, and I just want to make any transactions I have with other members as smooth and worry-free as I can. I would never consider leaving Flakey feedback for item-related inquiries. As far as I'm concerned, until there's an agreement to purchase between the two parties, the buyer is simply window-shopping. Yes, this means that I have wasted time on answering questions from people who didn't buy from me, or didn't even reply to the extra information they requested, but that's just part of the selling process.

However, I will leave Flakey feedback if the buyer agrees to purchase something and then backs out without contacting me and trying to come to an understanding. I'm a human being too and realize that emergencies happen. If you talk to me and tell me what's going on, I'm going to do my best to work with you and come up with a payment plan, etc. But, if you commit to buy and back out, then I reserve the right to leave the Flakey feedback.

I do not think that a separate "Emergency-Nonpayment" clause is warranted. Fact is, emergencies do happen, and, yes, sometimes people buy things without budgeting for them. It happens. As a seller, if I see an one instance of Flakey feedback among numerous positive transactions, I'm not going to hold it against the person - I'll just assume that an emergency came up and was a one-time event. If I see numerous Flakey feedback, then I'll probably be more cautious.

Speaking as a buyer, if I agree to buy something and an emergency comes up preventing me from going through with the purchase, I'll suck it up and take my Flakey feedback, because I deserve it. It was my job to budget my money and make sure that I can afford the item in question, and I obviously failed. I'll rebuild my feedback and chalk up that one non-stellar review to a lesson learned.