Being Labeled a "Flake" in the MP

I don't mind when people ask questions about an item I'm selling, I really don't, but when people ask for picture after picture after picture and then never contact me again, it is a little annoying. I had someone ask for five different pictures of eyes, ask what brand, how long I had them, and the like. Say she really liked them and she wanted them asked for my paypal and I didn't hear from her in weeks, despite her logging on again. I sent her a message asking if she sent the money and she replied that she didn't want the eyes anymore. It was early in my DoA history so I wasn't sure if I should have left her feedback but looking back it was ridiculous and a waste of my time.

 

Aside from all the rules that have been laid out, I think certain types of requests are reasonable while others breed resentment. For example, asking for a couple of different photos of angles that had not been taken before? Reasonable. Asking for 10 different outfits, 5 different wigs and then disappearing without even saying thanks? Yeah, that's gonna cause some resentment though it doesn't warrant flakey feedback.

It's probably just a side effect of most people lacking in social graces these days, this entire community is shockingly (and wonderfully!) considerate compared to most people I run into offline but there's always going to be at least one of That Person.

 

One thing I never do, is ask people to hold anything. If somebody buys it and I miss out , then it will be my fault. Even when the seller offers to hold I tell them not to. If it is available when I am ready to pay then I buy it. I would hate for some one to miss a sale while I am deciding.

 

This is why you should keep your PM's. If you inquire and you're not interested and 'flakey' feed back is left, you can prove it to the Mods and have the post removed from your feedback. If there was no promise to purchase then you can't be called a flake.

I'm a buyer not a seller. Sellers please don't get offended by what I'm about to say...

If a seller isn't willing to provide me the information I need, I think that person is shady and I can probably find another seller with what I'm looking for. Typically if there is one photo, if there is blurriness obscuring the item, the lighting isn't showing the item well, if the photo is really really small, if there is little information provided about the item, I won't even bother inquiring. Something has to be wrong. I'm suspicious though and that's typically for resin items. I buy all my clothes, shoes, wigs, eyes, and accessories new. I won't take a chance on anything else.

 

As a buyer, I generally won't PM the seller with questions unless I'm certain that I want to buy. If I'm not serious, why bother them and get their hopes up? I don't want to ask someone "hey will xxx fit xxx doll?" only to say "no,I can't afford it" after they double checked for me. When you ask questions like that, the buyer assumes that you're going to buy if the answer is "yes, this will fit your doll."

As a seller, I don't mind buyers sending me questions, but it is frustrating when they ask for photos when their question could have easily been answered in words (length, what dolls it will fit, etc.) and then back out. I wouldn't consider them flakey, but it does make me feel as though I wasted my time. Photos take more work than just hitting "reply," especially when there's clothing changes involved.

It's easy to get irritated at potential buyers when they have questions and then decide against buying- after all, they don't know how many times you get similar PMs, only to turn into a "just curious, maybe-maybe not" situation. I understand that spending money these days requires extra thought, but that's the same reason why I don't inquire unless I'm sure I want something. If it's a matter of comparing against something similar form another buyer, I'd suggest telling both sellers that. Then they know that you're debating and are looking for the best results.

 

Well, I had a situation where a buyer got really annoyed with me. I had a Volks head that I was selling at a reasonable price. I had 3 people pm me asking for shipping prices. I sent all 3 the cost of shipping to their country. One never responded again, another agreed to buy the doll and said they would send payment promptly, which they did. The 3rd got back to me a day later and said they wanted to buy the head. I explained that the head had been sold and got an angry pm back because I had sold it. Apparently I should have told them that I had other people interested.

Now personally, when a seller tells me that they have other people interested, I get a little wary. It seems like the sale is getting pushed onto me and they're trying to rack up the demand. At that stage I had 3 interested people, no-one had asked me to put the head on hold and I had no idea if anyone would even get back to me after I advised them of shipping costs. I advised the buyer if she had asked me to hold the head for her, I would have explained I was reluctant to do that because I had other interested parties. But I guess with the flakey feedback risk, no-one is keen to use holds any more.

 

Just popping in again to reiterate - As has been correctly pointed out there are already rules and guidelines in place for how and when to leave accurate feedback. It is vitally important that these rules and guidelines are understood! The feedback system is ONLY AS ACCURATE as the feedback left!!!

If you have ANY question about appropriate feedback left of leaving appropriate feedback PLEASE use the Ask the Moderators subforum to get help and information! "Flakey Feedback" is not at the discretion of a disgruntled member - really!

 

Agreed! And there's always the chance of a buyer doing the same, I suppose. Something like "well, so and so has it for $$$ less."

Of course, we all have the options of saying "then I can wait to buy/sell if you have someone else interested in selling for less/paying more." The trick is that so many people don't do that, because they feel intimidated. That happens everywhere, from cell-phone providers to car salesmen. Frankly, if a seller/buyer on DoA were to use bad feedback as a threat (despite it not being allowed), I would automatically walk away. I don't need their business/item THAT badly.

 

I'm always wary that I'll be labeled a flake. I've had some people understand, "I'm interested in your doll, -insert question here-", to mean, "I want your doll, what's your paypal address?". I've since learned to insert the "may" as in, "I may be interested in your doll", which has helped a great deal.
As a seller, I've also had some people get slightly upset with me when they asked a question, didn't get back to me for a few days, then assumed that I'd held the doll for them. It's rather frustrating as I don't like to assume that someone will buy what I'm selling based on a question.
And I do want to make clear that I understand that there are rules set in place to avoid this confusion. I suppose I'm more worried that I'll be viewed a flake in that individual's eyes, not necessarily branded as one in my feedback.

 

I don't think you were in the wrong there -- if the person had not said specifically that they were going to buy the head, then there was a reasonable chance that someone else might in the meantime. That's why when I'm in the midst of some kind of possible marketplace transaction, I make sure to check my messages often and get back to the seller ASAP. There's no reason to assume that other people wouldn't also have inquired.

 

I've often inquired about a doll/part and never hear from the seller after they tell me -
i have someone interested in it and may sell it,i'll let you know if it sells....

i find out said doll/part sold in the mp after checking back on the sale thread with no word from the seller.
very rude if you ask me.

 

@nytheriel: I wouldn't worry too much about individual sellers' attitudes; personally, I firmly believe honest actions will speak for themselves. If you've made yourself absolutely above reproach in communications, the seller really has no room to accuse you of flakiness. And if they still attempt to do so... IMHO, I'm not sure that I really want to interact with them in future!

As a buyer, I protect myself from "flake" accusations by starting enquiries with "I would like to ask a question about X, but am not ready to commit yet. I will tell you if I do decide to buy X." And then I make sure to follow through (this is very important!) with a clear Yes or No, after the seller has answered my question. If the seller is still accusing me of flakiness, well, I'll let my actions speak for themselves.

When selling dolls, especially with layaway sales, I've discovered the best way to protect myself from wishy-washy buyers is to specify the terms required before I agree to a sale. I usually ask the buyer to provide a layaway plan first (subject to my approval) and then a non-refundable deposit -- and only when I've received both, is the doll sold and the buyer liable to follow through with the purchase. Until then, nothing is binding, and both I and/or the buyer are free to walk away without penalty. So far this has worked to my favour as a seller, and I hold to this principle too when I'm on the buying end.

 

I guess it depends on the situation. If someone postpones or cancels a payment because of a sudden emergency, then that's understandable, because sadly, emergencies do come up, usually when we aren't expecting them to(though it would probably help if more people started putting aside funds SPECIFICALLY for emergency situations). Though I'd start getting suspicious if they started having some sort of emergency every week. Some people are probably just really unlucky, but I highly doubt there are that many people who have serious emergencies that frequently.

Then there are more obvious situations, where people keep putting off paying layaway's or stop paying at all, and don't respond to PM's from the buyer/seller. I say that's about the time that it becomes flaky behaviour. I would understand if it's a one-time thing from a person who otherwise has good feedback, but if the person has a history of doing this more than once, than I probably won't be buying from them or selling anything to them anytime soon.

As for the first situation, isn't that technically against the marketplace rules?

 

For sellers:

Agreeing to sell to a specific person and canceling the sale
Agreeing to sell at a specific price, then selling at a higher price to someone else
Agreeing to a set price and then trying to raise it due to another offer, fees, etc.

I have had SO many people do all three of these to me and it makes me so mad that I can barely stand it, especially when it's something that I really want. I was trying to buy an El head for a friend of mine and I found the PERFECT one, and the seller had some offers for it, but no one was really biting seriously. So, she told me that she would sell him to me and that I could buy him no big deal, then all of a sudden the next day, she sends me a pm and says "sorry... but I just have too many offers for him, I'm going to put him up for auction so that I can get the best deal out of my head..."

Um. Excuse me? You said that you'd sell him to me. That means that you are supposed to sell him to me.

I had another seller with a different doll that I wanted agree to a price with me and a layaway plan, and then told me that she was selling him to "someone else because she got a better offer on the table" and I'd just have to "deal with it". Ex-CUSE ME?

You know, I understand that things happen and sometimes people can't buy from me, especially if it's due to life just sucking. A car accident, medical bills, not having enough money at the time, over-drawing a checking account, speeding ticket, etc, but not selling to me AT THE PRICE MENTIONED ON THE THREAD because you have a better offer or because you want more money is just crap.

 

@Elendae_Nersil: I can understand that it's frustrating for both sides, a situation like that, getting a higher offer than hoped for is hard to resist especially if you need the cash, but as soon as they agreed to sell to you, they should have, end of story. It's just this kind of thing that has led me to not consider a transaction valid until actual money has switched hands, although of course agreeing that there will be a sale is binding enough and should be binding enough.

I've been on both sides of the issue myself, both more than two years ago thankfully. As a buyer, I backed out of a deal ONCE. A dear friend of mine (with MP access) really wanted a Dia head but she had no paypal and bad english skills so I negotiated for her. I believed there was a rule that stated "no buying/selling on behalf of 3rd parties" (I think there is, but only for 3rd parties with no DoA access or something, either way I felt a bit iffy about doing it). We found a head, my friend had a limited amount she could spend, so I went to negotiate. She didn't have more than $250 to spend which she had really had to scrounge for, the seller insisted on $300. Knowing just how badly this friend wanted the head for her beloved character and how incredibly happy finally getting it would make her, I decided to put in the remaining 50 myself, not telling my friend that because she was really strict about not borrowing money from people, it would just be a secret gift from me to her. So the seller and I agreed on the price, and then my conscience kicked in, I had to tell my friend that I went against her wishes and was going to pitch in some money of my own (which she could repay me whenever she got it if it would make her feel better, but she wouldn't have had to). She told me no way, that I was too sweet but it wasn't going to happen. So not wanting to back out of the deal or disappoint her, I made up a story to get the seller to lower her price for me (I stupidly didn't feel like I could tell her the real situation since I wasn't sure if negotiating on behalf of a friend was allowed), assuring her over and over that I would certainly buy the head for that price, but she understandably wouldn't bite. So that was lesson learned, bigtime.

I've also had sellers flake on me or at least treat me not so stellar, I've had the "I have another person is interested, but if they back out I'll let you know" followed with silence, I've had a seller who took ages to reply and said she lost my PMs, all because she was apparently having multiple transactions going on at once and lost track (aren't you supposed to be able to handle that if you offer multiple items for sale?), the same selleralso also never bothered to let me know that the doll I traded against hers had actually arrived despite me telling her that tracking from the Netherlands goes blank the moment the package leaves the EU, but those are just instances of less than customer friendly behavior, not flakey behaviour.

I did get one huge flake though. It was a seller I had negotiated slightly lower price and a 1 month layaway for a Volks SD13 body with, I had paid the first 1/2 of the amount nicely on time in the beginning of the first month and was one week away from paying the next, meaning the layaway was well on its way for at least 3 weeks, and then I suddenly got a full refund and a PM stating "sorry, I've found a buyer in my own home town who wants to buy the entire doll, here is your money back". And three days later another PM, "the other person didn't want the doll after all, you can still get the body, for the original sales price [so not the negotiated price] but no layaway". If I could have paid right away I wouldn't have asked for layaway in the first place, now would I=_=. I think that was the only time I ever left negative feedback on here and that was way before I even heard the term "flake".

 

This is a very stressful and irritating situation, but also highlights why flakey feedback is important.

As Zagzagael has said, the feedback system is only as accurate as members can make it by leaving factual, truthful feedback. This includes leaving flakey feedback when it is warranted, for sellers as well as buyers.

It helps everyone be better informed when getting into transactions

For everyone's attention: Retaliatory feedback is not permitted - if you are afraid of leaving flakey feedback because of retaliation, report any blowback to the mods through clicking the report button at the bottom of posts. You can also report harrassing PMs in this way too.

The rule is that members may only conduct their own personal business through DoA's Marketplace. Members may not transact on behalf of anyone else, just themselves. Buying on the behalf of friends is not allowed at all and could cost you your Marketplace access.

 

Here's my thing; I like seeing details. I'm very picky and as I have yet to buy my first doll, I want to make sure that I'm in love with my first before I buy it. Also, there are a lot of things I want to know about the doll, that some seller's either just assume people to know due to having seen the doll before, but as a newb, I can't find the answers even by Googling it. So I have to ask and I might ask to see more pictures because I've never seen the doll before and I want to see what the hip joint looks like or what the head looks like without the face-up...

And I also think, that most of what I'm asking for should be on your ad in the first place. I shouldn't have to wonder what size she is or what size wigs fit her best. And ads should have plenty of pictures taken, and if you've had her for a while, you should have some on your account already.

I'm not saying it isn't annoying to have someone not buy it when you think you've shown so much, how could they say no? But it's common knowledge, that people change their minds. Maybe your doll has boobs too far apart and now I don't want it (that actually just happened to me. I told you I was picky!). I don't think that warrants hating on the potential buyer...

tl;dr- I understand buyers being upset, but if I don't like your doll, I will say so and move on. I shouldn't be hated for that... (However, if I just leave ya hanging and never reply to you again, the yes, that is wrong and no buyer or seller should ever do that. Communication is key when buying something pre-owned online.)

 

I personally don't see what the problem is? The seller was telling the truth; if the other buyer backed out, she would have PMed you. But.... the buyer didn't, so she didn't. If I was told that, and I got a PM in my inbox from that seller, it would have raised my hopes up for nothing to think that I got the sale when all the seller was saying was "You're SOL, I sold the doll to someone else".

 

Thank you for clearing that up, I see where it's coming from and why it's necessary, although I don't quite see how it is to be enforced, but that is besides the scope of this thread.

I know, it's not really a problem, it's the suggestion that the other interested party isn't sure yet and might back out that gets my hopes up, more than a second PM that might be a yes or a no. I'd rather just hear "sorry, someone just beat you to it" so that I know I don't have to get my hopes up at all, but that's just me.

 

ShuriTigerH - If you'd like to know more about the rule, I'd be happy to explain more about the rule via PM or in Ask the Mods, rather than make the thread off-topic If not, no worries.

Hollyraed - I like to look at company pictures of dolls I'm interested in, so that even if I'm buying second hand I will know that an un-modded doll should still look like the company promos. I'm buying a Volks SD13 body on layaway and I have a pretty good idea of what to expect from so much time looking up SD13s and checking them out. Most companies provide nude photos of their dolls these days, so you should be able to have a really clear picture of the doll you're interested in (and know if their boobs are too far apart ) before you contact a seller about their doll.

If you want detailed pictures of any scratches or dings in the resin, that's reasonable and should be either provided by the seller as a matter of course or the seller should expect to provide them when the buyer asks to see them.

It's also not a safe bet to assume sellers will have a backlog of photos ready to show you. I have some dolls in my collection that have never been photographed, they really are just decorative pieces to have in my room rather than dolls I play with.