BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

This is horrible! Selfish, greedy person! Shame on him (or her)!!! Disgraceful behavior!

 

I'm aware my idea is kind to ideal to become real, since there are so many artists and dolls it would take a heavy service and a dedicated team, and someone would have to pay for this (even if some companies agreed to, not all would be able). But I think that even if it didn't have all the companies, having some together would be better than have they solo like this.

 

I remember when I was a newbie (only 4 years ago) I was looking for a bjd and the first thing I was directed to in Google was aliexpress. I like to do my research though and I found DoA but it was difficult to get in at the time. I had to email a mod and get permission. I don't know how DoA accepts members these days but I made my first purchase directly from fairyland before I became a DoA member and that took a lot of trust on my part because I didn't know what to expect as my first experience. I think if we make it much easier to find one large and popular site for all doll artists like @flornosertao said then the option to choose Legit would be much greater.

 

An update from Dollzone on their Instagram:
Dollzone Official on Instagram: “#dollzone #dzdoll #dollchateau #dcdoll #antirecast #legitbjd #legitdoll #bjd #bjddoll #balljointeddoll #doll #bjdartist #dollartist…”

@mangameow
You can add DZ to your list. Thanks~~

 

I have to applaud you for doing research. Many newbies don't anymore. And I can imagine that most don't really want to become a member of DoA as it can be rather intimidating when you're new. (It was to me when I came into the hobby 12 years ago).

I truly miss the smaller forums. We had two in the Netherlands and I know a lot of countries had one. And from there you moved to DoA for more information. Now most things go via Facebook which is "easy" but a lot harder to find if you're not really familiar with it all yet.

Here in the Netherlands we have at least three FB (no-sales) groups I know and two of those are recast friendly. So what do you do as newbie? You go to whatever says it is 'friendly' to something.

I agree to the people who say we should start calling it counterfeits. I think that when you give it a name that everyone can understand, it becomes easier for them to see it is wrong.

 

I agree that it is difficult to not get lured in by recasters. When I discovered BJDs, luckily the first site that popped up in Google was BJDcollecstacy. However, there obviously were also recasters, as prices for e.g. Fairyland dolls varied so very widely. To my luck, I thought they were something like fake Adidas shoes. But had I not been that suspicious in general and not tried to rather talk myself out of the hobby (which obviously did not work), I do not know if I had not gotten a counterfeit doll as a first one - absolutely unknowingly. So it is a good idea to have such a list.

Another aspect I am sad about that during the time I am in the hobby, it was and is always fascinating to see the technical innovations which were introduced by doll manufacturers. The biggest on me for me was the transition from single jointed to double jointed dolls, and the introduction of mobility joints. Now I am afraid that we may stop somehow at this stage. Sure, the doll bodies now existing work. But maybe there could be new, exciting things we now cannot discover because long-term doll manufacturers may be forced to go out of business?

And how many new artists are now hesitant to offer their works to the public due to this event? Ah, it is so disheartening.

 

I've been mainly lurking and reading over the comments of this since I was directed to this thread from FB, but I figured I'd say something as well.

It's truly despicable what this individual (male/female) is trying to do, and it's my hope that the companies banding together, or through some collaborated effort of some sort, will be able to obstruct this from going through.

I'm thankful that when I returned to the hobby I never felt the draw towards recasts (counterfeits), and that I was able to go directly towards legit sites and discover legitimate bjds that suited what I was looking for. But I am a bit of an exceptional case, as I'd had exposure to the community way back when (some 7-8 years ago), and still remembered my account on here and companies like Luts and Dollzone that I recalled seeing when I first discovered bjds. There were also places like Pullipstyle where I used to post that had a bjd section, and I learned about them through that.

Unfortunately, places like Pullipstyle don't really exist anymore, and newbies really have to find their way around through image centric sites like Instagram and Flickr where there isn't a big catalogue of useful information that can be informative and useful for beginners in the hobby. It'd be nice if there was a database where people could be directed for info about stuff like good companies and dealers to look through, as well as educate them about counterfeits, the dangers of buying one (including the physical hazards, since they are most likely not safely monitored with their practices, and toxins and other problematic materials could end up in the resin that would be otherwise caught in a legit facility), and also have it be user-friendly. Knowledgeable people in the community could link newbies to it in order to direct them away from illegitimate sites and info in order to have them be properly informed, and keep them away from the clutches of the pro-counterfeiters.

As they say: knowledge is power, and spreading information on legitimate companies and dealers is key to keeping unsuspecting newbies and all the dangers of counterfeits (physical, financial, economic, legal) from falling into the traps of thieves. It's one thing to tell somebody they are right or wrong in what they consider buying, but it's more important and powerful when they are given the facts instead--and also have it be presented in a friendly and reasonable manner for that matter. Salt attracts much less flies than sugar!

(Note: if something like this exists, pardon my ignorance of not being aware of it. Also, pardon me if I stated anything in this that is not correct or whatnot. I'm going off what I know).

 

Now this reminds me of when I joined not long ago. When I did research about BJDs, most of the info about them seemed to be on DOA, of which I could access very little as a guest. I worry that if I had not decided to finally join instead of searching elsewhere in frustration, I might have been drawn to the other side. Maybe a few more areas could be public? This really is the most central English BJD resource on the web.

 

OMG, really? When did this happen? I have one and now I feel sad because he would be the only one I have from HZ...

Maybe it's just my knowledge that is lacking, but I think copying a vinyl doll is much harder? You cannot put a vinyl into a casting device because it melts easily, and it's also squishy, making it harder to get the exact replica. Although, with the 3D printer and scanner, it might not be that hard anymore. Danny Choo is much more vigilant and since he is Chinese (descendant, not citizen), I assume he knows the dangers of not trademarking his creations in China, so he might already has the trademark there. Correct me on these, if I am wrong, thanks!

I almost forgot to add... We have dealers in most countries now where you can do "window shopping" and internationally, we have DOLK! (And Luo has registered DOLK's name, too. Dang him.)

 

This dolk site is amazing! I was also not aware about it. I will sure show it to newbies. Hope they are also able to fight this problem.

 

excellent, thank you so much!! :'D
i've added them to the list now, thank you for helping me keep updated! ^^

 

I did not think this kind of thing was possible, legal or allowed. I was and still am quite mortified and disgusted that someone would do such a disrespectful and immoral thing. I really hope he/she can be taken down. This is just wrong on so many levels.

I also wonder why there isn't an international copyright law that covers all countries so people like this Luo person can't do something like this. Isn't there something we as buyers and collectors can do?

 

Someone mentioned that when people Google bjd or abjd, the top search results are usually recast (counterfeit) sites. Google does remove links to sites due to copyright infringement. I wonder if enough of us brought up the issue to Google, explaining that counterfeiters are taking advantage of small companies in various parts of the world, they would remove the sites from the search result list. The information that we have regarding this current issue could also be used to emphasize our case.

To be honest, I don't know how that would even work or if it would. Maybe the companies themselves would have to appeal to Google directly. But it might be something to try.

 

It takes a lot of effort to get something removed from a Google search once it exists. I had an ex post naked pictures of me on DeviantArt with my full name attached to it and all anyone had to do was Google my name and those were the first images that showed up. It took me months to get them removed. I had to get DeviantArt to take them down first, which took almost a month. They wanted all sorts of proof and legal statements. From there, I had to do the same with Google.

It would have been impossible if those pictures were not selfies. (Evidence that I was the photographer, evidence that I was the model, evidence that I owned the right to those images and that they were being used against my permission)

Good luck with that endeavour.

Edit: Google vehemently refused to do anything at all, until I got Deviantart to remove those photos btw.

 

LOL if they're gonna use that logic, (if they didn't want ____ to happen, then they should've just ____) then the: "if they left their car running in the parking lot, they're just asking to be taken for a joy ride" argument works too (eyerolllllll)

And i think the "it's their own fault for making their dolls so expensive" is an ignorance to the excruciating process which sculptors go through to make the dolls beautiful, and that ignorance supposedly stems from "lack of research", which i think just stems from laziness.

I personally think that
it's the mentality of people. (and feel free to disagree. this is just opinion)

its that the people who buy counterfeits, all have a certain way of thinking, and they lack a certain...respect for the world around them.
it's not because they're "broke". (because they clearly ain't broke if they buying recasts and fancy cameras to take pics of their fake dolls.)

it's laziness and selfishness, pure and simple.

Educating newbies on what recasts/counterfeits are, will help, but newbies are entering this hobby all the time. We can't possibly reach them all, because the sheer numbers are ridiculous even if this is a niche hobby, and not its technically our job.

People who choose to buy counterfeits want the instant gratification, and the """prestige"""" that comes with owning a doll.

People who don't educate themselves before entering a hobby with a high price tag are chasing something...superficial. (same goes for couture handbag collecting..etc)

You tell them "you're fooling yourself with a copy of the real thing", well yeah, they know that! (referring to the ones who knowingly bought recast)!
They don't care! In their mind, they win.
They got theirs in 3.5 weeks, you got yours in 3.5 months. HA.
They don't think past who made it, why, or where it came from, and that's the problem.

The Luo saga was a little bit inevitable because of the mentality of people who enjoy and even purposely seek out fakes. And in a terrible, miserable way, I feel like our hobby needed this reality check.

A divide is happening, and hopefully, the side with the most hard-working people win.

 

And the mentality of "not owning a doll means I cannot be part of the community". I think that is something we can at least work on.
To encourage people to participate even if they do not own a doll yet. Then perhaps some won't feel the need to rush and buy cheap fakes.

 

maybe artists didn't exactly close for good, but many toke badly the strike and decide to take a pause... like 5thmotif that made a long statement on FB saying that he was so hurt from the situation that he has lose the passion to create new sculpt. and if you think that venitu was indeed his first creation that took him more than a year to finish, you can understand. same goes for asella, enaibi, the kikipop creators that dropped making it in resin... the woman behind cocoriang couple creators dropped sick after they recasted her first creation, peppi, and Rachelle of lilicat had to fire her assistant and often said that she's thinking of give up every time she see one of her creation being recasted.

the damage is certain, and I admit this time I really feel frustrated and useless. I want to help, really want to help badly, at last the small companies that are desperate and don't have the found to get out of this situation. but I don't have any friends in the law fields, unfortunally...

If we open a crowfounding for the brand that have financial struggle for fighting luo? do you think is possible? I never opened one, but I think that we pro artist are so many that even a dollar each can really do something... is it too unrealistic/impossible to make?

 

Of all the excuses to buy a counterfeit, this is the one that gets me the most. Probably because I'm an 'invalid' myself, but mostly because it's just such a 'pitty me!' comment. It is so manipulative.
No, even for sick people, dolls are still a luxury item. If you can't afford said item, it sucks, but such is life.

This is so true. I'm actually glad I've decided to move on to making statues instead of making dolls. Although one of the reasons for me to do so was because making statues is more challenging sculpting-wise, another was the growing uncertainty and toxicity of the community. Now, I know that - as I say this - there are those mocking this sentiment with a nice 'your dolls were too ugly to be recasted'. But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that artists making dolls have to factor in the big chance that it won't sell well. Most sculpts don't. Only a handful of dolls become popular, and those are the ones companies make money from. All the other sculpts? They were lucky guesses, but at most you'll get your investment back.

A counterfeiter doesn't have this risk. They only sell the hits - using the marketing their target paid for - and as a result, they are able to make much more money than any doll-maker ever could. That is why we now have a Luo Ligui who has enough money to pay for trademark fees, without having to worry about any legal resistance from his victims. Most of them, won't be able to afford it.

 

I have just been catching up with this thread and wondered if we couldn't all band together to make some form of "Web-Ring" (remember those, lol?) which has as many legitimate BJD sites as possible featured with links to their sites and make it very visually appealing and if we crowd-funded or just had donations to get it high up in Google searches? I've made a few WYSIWYG sites in my time but I'm not really that tech-saavy, are there people here that would be interested in collating information and helping to put together an open public information only site that could link newbies to all the legit doll artists quickly so that they have to go hunting for the counterfeiters/recasters instead of the other way round?

Like I said, I'm not that tech-saavy, so do we think this could work?

 

This is so disheartening. I don't even know what to say or do. I just want to cry thinking about what this arsehat is doing to so many companies.