BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

Good to know about HZ. Interesting that he left the BJD market even though 'only' his tiny Roro is recasted (= 'only' in comparison to the masses of dolls that are recasted from other companies like Fl, Iple or Soom). Still sad though.

I have a full list of legit companies (currently counting at 664) in the BJD Measurement List, including those that are out of business and smaller artists that only sell on etsy/other platforms (it's over here).
DoAs wiki has a list of Dollmakers too, but there are only like.... 150 companies on it. I'm not sure if it makes sense to merge the long list into DoA, since the Dollmaker page only links to DoA Wiki pages... and creating +400 new pages that basically just link to the (maybe non-existant) homepage seems a bit useless.

 

Though I think I'm not the most web knowledged person, I would be willing to help at least start the site. I'm on vacation until the end of the first half of this year so if it could be started already I would have a lot of time for this. And than we could maybe rotate people helping to keep the site so it wouldn't be too much of a heavy load for however volunteers...

 

This perception always makes me cringe! I joined this community way back in 2007 I think, did not have a doll and never perceived that I was NOT welcome to participate in the community (and I'm more of an introvert myself). I lurked in a lot of specific doll discussion threads as I was overwhelmed at the site in general but I joined in several of the general discussion threads. One of the first dolls that I REALLY, REALLY wanted, was crazy for, was Soom Vega Last Song. I couldn't afford it and I was shocked by how depressed that actually made me, and I literally had to have the "conversation with myself" that "it's just a doll, not the end of the world" I still do not have that doll (but I dream )

 

Have you ever had someone steal from you? It’s traumatizing. The fact that so many companies are sticking it out after “masses” of dolls have been taken from them by counterfeiters is a testament to how dedicated they are to their work as dollmakers, but it shouldn’t surprise anyone if they give up when it is depressingly clear how little recourse they have when this happens. HZ was a successful BJD clothing business first—they don’t have to take the risk of producing dolls that might be recasted to stay an active part of the hobby, and I’d imagine that made it easier to take a step back from doll production. Why take the risk if you don’t have to?

I think what that tells you is that we should be focusing on how amazing it is that these companies are still fighting to be a part of this industry when the rise of rampant counterfeiting is putting an absurd amount of pressure on them. That’s what makes this situation so sad, and so baffling that there are still people out there who look at it and try to make excuses for it.

 

I've not said that copying just one thing isn't horrible. I know it is, and I would be devastated if one of my own dolls would suddenly turn up in Aliexpress or taobao as a recast (and I had people threatening me to send the first doll I made to a recaster out of spite because I sold the recasts I owned years ago and completely turned to legits...).

I'm really glad that everyone is still producing dolls and is still fighting the counterfeit market. We recently had a big discussion in one of the german facebook groups (when the trademark issue came up), because some people STILL said BS like "but its my money! Its not my fault that the recaster uses the money to buy trademarks!" Well honey, it is.

 

I completely agree. But honestly I think that that's with many things, not just the BJD hobby.

Like my younger sister doesn't care if she spills stuff on the sofa because "its not her sofa". So why care about a company that you have nothing to do with...

I sometimes miss how the hobby was back in 2007-2010.

 

I can't really say I feel the same. I lurked without registering in doa for quite some time, and I even though I had already bought my pukipuki, I felt like I couldn't join the discussion without having have it here with me. I don't know if its my social phobia or something from my head, but there is moments I feel like having only tinies I'm not as welcomed because the biggers ones are more loved and the tinnies are usually just an ascessory in the doll families. It may have something to do with what people talk about though because I've seen a lot of people saying things like this and maybe I'm just reproducing it without notice?
There was a discussion about which doll size do you like the most, and people who liked bigger sizes (actually more for the msd/sd size, but thats pretty big for a tiny lover like me) were all engaged and talking, but people who likes smaller sizes were just ignored.... I did think about contacting them and start a talk about our common interest, but I'm shy!
I don't wish to have something bigger than yosd though. So if my therapy doesnt help, I may stay recluse in the tiny appropriated areas.
I know you may be thinking "but if you have social phobia thats not an average example", but nowadays mental problems - especially anxiety related ones - are pretty much everywhere, so its actually average enough.
I do agree with @Yumeiro that we should win the heart of the newbies before the pro-recaster get them. As someone who is a relative newbie, I can say that for a moment they almost made me swing for the wrong side with their receptivity.

 

Go back and re-read what i said carefully, and then you can apologize because i was defending this discussion STAYING on DoA

 

meanae and flornosertao, maybe if we do a bit of research and find out some suggestions for a free website that could handle that many pages (obviously there is no point linking to companies that no longer exist)... but I really am quite naive with website hosting... we would need to get permission to use company photos of dolls too (as we are railing againts peoiple who steal their property!). I'm working a lot at the moment but will keep thinking abaout this and if anyone else wants to help, just put a comment here

 

someone mentioned tumblr, and I think with some themes adjustements it could work. blogger too. this sites that have tags like those two can be a easier alternative to the sortting problem.

 

Even not counting the companies that are out of business, thats still... 460 companies °cough° I like the idea of having them all together, but I think that would need some kind of- I dunno, auto-compile function. I'm an excel nerd and I know how tumblr works and whats possible and what's not, but typing in infos for +400 companies? Plus getting permission from so many shops would take a loooooong time too.

But I would be on board for something like this. One would need an easy to 'copy and paste' template... I'll think about it. Maybe excel CAN help.

 

Though the bigger companies do have a lot of content, the smallers dont have that many dolls. So I do think is possible with calm and unity. Only problem is that each person (or maybe everyone for ablog) on tumblr can only post 100 times a day, so that would make things slow.

 

Maybe multiple people could work on excel files. A group of companies for each person. Keep the same system and then put everything together?

 

Can excel have images? And be acessed by everyone? Because writting it like this and than reposting in a site would be twice the work... We could just give each person in the team a company to be responsible for and when you finished that company content you could get another one. When it was finally up to date we would decide on keeping it updated (since by the time it would already have changed some people in the team probably).

 

Yes you can add images. And it could be shared through things like google drive or dropbox.

I do have an idea for a set up for it. I work a lot with excel at work.

 

Yes to images and yes to be accessible. Google spreadsheets are great
TBH I don't think pictures would be necessary, if we put the link to the companies webpage in there too. Currently working on a spreadsheet thats collecting all the right data in on sheet, and you'd only need to copy/paste it (its over here: BJD Measurement list [ver. 25.4.18])

 

In case anyone wants to start trying out tumblr to see how it goes and if seems workable or too hard, that would be a good way to start: make around 10 mock up posts that can be edited later. Than start working on the design and the tags that we be used to sort things, some I suggest would be: by company, by country, by size (it can be as simple as doa classificiation or more complex), and by material. Other suggestions would be welcomed since it would be to troublesome to edit later so every sorting method should be choose in the start.
I'm more of a worker than a leader, so if you give the first steps I can follow behind, just add me to the team (my tumblr is on my profile).

But than instead of updated post by post we would have to update on google drive or dropbox each time and it would change the url, no?

 

No the url should stay the same. I am gonna start my laptop real quick and see what I can come up with.

 

I read it was "Q" and not "O" being registered and some pro-recast folks are using that to explain away Luo Ligui's innocence. To me, that is similar to registering "freeple" and "dollsh craft" and other misspell tradenames. Infringement though substantially similar mark is unfortunately a "thing" (#7 of http: //cyber.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm)

I also question whether the competition Luo could've registered the marks in his supposed cousin's name - especially if Chinabjd S/L Luo is actually a woman and Luodoll a man?
Looking up registration for Chinese trademark, I found this: https: //www.trademarknow.com/blog/the-china-trademark-registration-process-cheatsheet
requiring official documents from companies for their trademark registration. I imagine an individual filing trademark registration would similarly be required to present their compulsory national ID proving identity... (http: //www.scmp.com/tech/article/2129957/look-chinas-push-national-digital-id-cards)

(amazing to me that the site is recommending 5 year registration-to-use lead time. 5 years? that's a long time to think ahead for an artist who's fueled by muses / inspiration / need for monetary support from / for her/his creation!)

this compilation of information should fall under fair use, at least in the U.S. https: //www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

 

I was thinking about images because there already are some sites with company list, but its more rare a all-bjd-stoee like that people could use to find the doll to their like easier like recast sites like aliexpress have.

Yes, please do, lets try different things and see what works better to work with later.