BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

This made me think that the legit companies are quite the opposite to the big companies, more like the mom & pop stores of yesteryear, whereas this Luo crapwad is more like Walmart, trying to buy out all the territory using shady and underhanded tactics.

In this case, the pirate/recaster is actually the big, mean corporation/company. If only we could get the po-recast folks to see that fact. "Don't you see, you're the idiots supporting the big, bad company?" Of course, it wouldn't be worded quite that way!

 

From everything I've seen, that's pretty much the case! BJDs are still very much a niche hobby, which means the companies making them are pretty small for the most part. Volks might be the only legit company that's gotten bigger, but BJDs are also not the only products they make.

The comparison to Wal-Mart is actually pretty accurate- this asshole is gunning to shut down the smaller legit companies that have been around for years so he can corner the market on dolls.

 

I took the list of affected companies here My Dolly Adventures: BJD Trademarks & Recasts and cross referenced it with the companies who have been contacted here bjd trademark notifications (luo aftermath 2k18) . Here is the list of names that were not crossed off/ removed: Idealian, Kreamdoll, Doll'n'Doll, Chicabi Doll, DolkBJD, Monochrome, Neo-Angel Region, DollBom, Chica Bonita, RAMCube, Napi, Cocoriang, Migidoll, Dara, Sadol, RSDoll, April Story, Aileen Doll,, Lyllycat, Withdoll, Lina Chouchou, Monodee, Leekeworld, IBJDD, Dollmore, Crobidoll, Rosenlied, Doll Soom. They probably already know, but I just figured if people were still trying to make sure, this list might be helpful.

 

A lot of people who buy recasts (by mistake or not) also simply do not know how BJDs are made. They aren't aware that, by buying a recast doll, they are actively hurting the smaller companies who made the doll in the first place. Like some people have said before, the "instant gratification" factor plays a big role in their decision as well.

Someone I know did just that. They had wanted a doll for years, happened to shop on Ebay and thought they had found a good deal. I had to break it to them that it was a bootlegged doll and what it implied. I don't know if they care in the end, considering that they're enjoying their doll and don't really plan on joining a community (their words, not mine), but I find it sad that them of all people didn't consider what buying a "too good to be true" deal really meant in this hobby. They're a creator themselves, so I thought they knew better but I guess that their priorities lied elsewhere. I just hope that they won't do it again.

 

One thing I've been wondering about since this all began: does anyone know if there are any regulations that the bootleggers have to do meet the standards of while manufacturing, or do they operate without any regulation?

The reason this bothers me is: a lot of unregulated bootlegs of other products made in the past that were imported into the USA and elsewhere (e.g.-baby food, Barbie dolls and other Mattel toys, etc.) were later tested and found to contain contaminants like lead and other banned material.

I have to wonder if the bootleggers have any government oversight to regulate their practices or not? Considering the fact that they cut corners with their materials, what possible fillers could they be using in their productions? Could banned materials be included in the resin they use in their production? I'm pretty certain they're not paying for higher quality materials like, say...Dollshe or Granado, for example. I recall time and time again about them needing to increase costs due to material costs, etc. And the bootleggers don't do this. It really makes me wonder.

I'm not certain if this is relevant or not, but it's been on my mind the last couple days.

 

I'm sorry how is a recast instant gratification? Do they get the doll the instant they buy it or do they have to wait for it a few months too? And all that time they shop around what makes them think that they will be satisfied with a fake regardless of if they join a community or not when they can have the real Legit bjd and be more satisfied than a fake replica. There is a lot more psychology here about having a conscience than I can get into. I do however believe that ever since the terms PRO-artist and Anti-recast came up the pro-recast people started using the pro-recast pro-artist terms as a way to confuse everyone and get more people to support them. I do think it's more difficult to convince someone however that a counterfeit could be PRO-artist. What are they going to say now? They are pro-fakes? That just sounds stupid.

 

@jade-eyed-cat I don't actually know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that would be a problem with (at least some) recasts. I've heard that even when legitimate products are produced in Chinese factories, there has to be a supervisor from the company who's hired them to make sure they're not getting screwed over by the factory using cheaper than agreed upon materials. Like, big companies like Apple probably have to have someone physically there to watch the process and test the products before they accept them, because many factories will substitute cheaper materials to make more money. And that's for legit merchandise. Counterfeiters don't have anyone watching over them.

 

@Serdtse the "instant gratification" is the cheap price and the shorter waiting time to receive the doll, regardless of its quality. I don't agree with that myself, in fact, I also find this pretty foolish. The BJD hobby thrives on artists and their hard work. But for some people, having the "same" item for cheaper and quicker is somehow "better", and like I said before they don't believe that they are hurting small businesses and artists because they simply don't know better. Although I might not have used the term "instant" the right way here, maybe it's just the language barrier.

As some said before, some people apparently identify both as pro-recasts and pro-artist. Which doesn't make sense in my mind (and surely doesn't for other well-informed collectors), but I guess that these people find ways to use these terms however they see fit regardless of what they really mean.

 

Yeah, I already saw something similar about BAPE clothes in china. God knows what they are capable of doing to get more money.

I also saw in more than one place about some recasts using toxic materials, but I don't think there is enough evidence I mean, how many of us have a lab and a recast avaliable to do the tests? If we were able to get proofs in this kind of thing, that would be big a step in the fight against recasts! Can recasts toxicity be my tesis for university? LOL

I've read this before! The person justified that by saying its ok to buy recasts when the doll is out of the market or something like that.

Update on the answer list, whattheplumbob @ tumblr posted dollshe reply to her email about this matter. - @mangameow

 

It's instant versus waiting and hoping for a rerelease of a limited doll or searching for one second hand. That's a justification I see a lot. I could just buy a recast Volks Graffiti girl body...or I could continue to beg Volks to add the body to FCS for another ten years. Some people don't have the patience for that, or they don't think they'll want it by then. I see it as a way to be really sure of what I want. No matter how crazy or frustrating it is to try to get their dolls, I'm still not going to stab them in the back.

 

What is happening really disgusts and saddens me. I hope the Chinese authorities can crack down on Luo or the issue can in some way be helped. I feel terrible for the Chinese folks in the hobby who may have trouble legally getting legits at all. I just hope that it does not harm the hobby too much long term. I am only just starting out and would be a shame to see things go downhill.

 

For full disclosure, I was many of the newbies who got "duped" by recast stores. I didn't even know that recasts were a thing or that counterfeits even existed. Recast stores are on amazon, ebay, and are some of the first google results when googling "BJD". Thus easily falling right into the hands of recasters, unknowingly buying a counterfeit. The day of purchase I was so excited and wanted to see if there was a community, that is when I learned what I had just purchased was a recast. What recasts were, how these dolls are made, why they were so expensive, and that "unbelievably priced BJD" were probably either a scam or a recast. I had no idea that these dolls literally had birth certificates and authenticity papers.

I, being an artist myself, was distraught. I instantly contacted the recaster and said I wanted to cancel my order and an instant refund. I wanted my money back so I can put it towards a legit. It literally had been 24 hours. I remember a day in passing exact. They had told me they could not refund, doll was already shipped. I assume people willingly buying these recasts do not have long wait times based on this experience. That happened about 2013. I had a much more extendable income, and right after the recast came in, I hated it. I hated it so much. It felt terrible that my money was wasted. Recast in question is no longer in possession. I gave it to a legit collector for modding practice after some time.

Next paycheck, the first thing I did was buy a legit doll within budget after somehow stumbling across Alice Collections when that happened. I am proud of my all legit doll family. It feels like christmas when a doll I have saved up for comes home.

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As for just general topic:

I also want to add, as mentioned before--- being more kind will make the pro-artist community more appealing. Not that anyone isnt or hasnt. I just think its a important reminder a lot of things like this happen in ignorance, and to be empathetic of situations similar of my experience makes them feel validated and included. A lot of newbies who go through this actually join recast forums because they felt like the mistake they made instantly puts a target on them. It was through the kindness and understanding of pro-artist people that have helped me realize that being duped is an unfortunate reality many newbies may face if we did not research. It really makes coming into the hobby a really negative experience, and some may never try to interact with the feeling of guilt and animosity they have. Some instantly flock to recast forums, join recast communities and continue to support recasts trying to justify the doll they have. It's not okay by any means to do that, but it's a huge snowball effect of how easily accessible recasts are. Especially if buying in America, googling basic BJD terms first results are recast shops. The BJD hobby may seem big online, but it is extremely niche in the vast scheme of things.

I dont know if there is much we can do, but the best thing we can do if at all possible is always make legit dolls and company links more accessible and find-able (for lack of better word). As mentioned previously, I really like the idea of having information on our social media on where to find these dolls. Even if that is a "doll bio page" where we post all links of where to purchase, or if we post company links in every post on social media.

This trademark issue really scares me to an extent, mostly for doll companies/collectors based in china. Im not sure how things will be impacted here in the western countries will be if Luo tries claim these trademarks. I suspect it will be unsuccessful here in the US. Im not well informed on trademark laws of EU/AU, but I assume the applications wont go through if legit doll companies are fighting this. We can only hope. I would like to remain positive and hopeful. I truly hope this would be a situation where some previously pro-recast individuals decide to take up buying legit. Considering the narrative I have seen from the other side of the community, I doubt it, but we can only hope.

I feel like being extremely open-armed to those wanting to seek legit dolls is important also. Not that we aren't, or that people dont try, but going the extra mile to try to make people who are going legit really feel like they are doing the right thing. Just little things, like maybe shoutouts to those who go legit on social media, or as faceup artists, giving a huge discount on someones first legit doll. Or offering a give-away on your social media for those going legit for your services. Im not saying faceup artists (or any sewing artists/wig artists, etc) like myself should do this, because none of us are obligated, but it would make those going legit feel more included and celebrated.

It's just food for thought. In practice its always much more complicated.

 

Evening all
So I'm up to reading page 11 of this thread so far, there's allot to read through ^^'.
Reason for joining the discussion is that I am working on an article about what is happening with this, and I'm working on contacting the effected companies for interviews. So far I've got a few interviews lined up but is there a master list of companies that have been hit by this trademark theft case? I am trying to get interviews with as many of the companies as I can before I write the actual article.
If someone can point me or link me to the list I'd be eternally grateful.
The article will focus mainly on highlighting how smaller scale bjd creators/companies operate and the effect illegal counterfeit/recast operations have on those small businesses.
Personally speaking, I could rant about why people shouldn't buy counterfeit bjd till I'm blue in the face, but this article is a better use of my time and will hopefully be useful for the bjd community as a whole (by which I mean information/statistics for both the pro legitimate bjd side and the pro recast side.

Anyone have the list of effected creators or links to list, please? And many "Thank you".

This is such a horrible thing to be happening to our great hobby community :/

Stay legit, stay strong

 

I believe the pinned post about this topic in news has a list of the artists.

 

Something that a lot of people may not realize is how terrifying this is, even for unaffected artists. My thoughts: how many dolls will I sell before it catches the eye of a recaster. Do I know where they all are, even the heads that have been resold. What can I do to make my dolls more difficult to reproduce that will be something an approved casting company can duplicate. I say these things as statements because I fully understand that if my doll is recast, there will be very little I can do about it. I am only one person and the profits that I have made thus far have not been enough to get my trademark in one country, let alone several. Is it worth it to finish my bodies and make them available. I want to own them, I want my dolls, but what if I sell to the wrong person and he's taken. I won't even know where to begin.

 

Chiming in with my 2c...
Australia is a "first use" jurisdiction. So if the registration went through, it could be opposed/overturned with evidence of prior use. Registration can also be opposed on the basis of "bad faith" - i.e. the person is not the owner of the trademark. It's a massive pain but they're probably ok in Aus I think. But we're such small potatoes.
What really concerns me is China. They are a huge market and it's notoriously difficult to overturn a registered mark (Apple, Michael Jordan...).
China has, in recent years, put in measures to try and address trademark squatting ("prior use" you have to prove a commercial reputation/that you were "well known") - but it's still a long and expensive process. Not always guaranteed of success, especially in a niche market. I worry that losing the Chinese market, even for a couple of years, would be devastating. Even worse if their China-based agents (and possibly casting factories?) are affected.

I'm just gobsmacked, because this would have cost Luo a fortune.
And it breaks my heart for the artists... I remember reading that Cocoriang nearly abandoned making dolls when they first learned of their dolls being recast. To have even the right to sell their dolls stolen!?!??! I worry they will quit for good this time, and I'll never get the chance to buy my little rabbits and cats.
Sorry for rambling, this just hurts.

 

exactly.. when I discoveret bleater the sheep by ios2 was recasted I was so shocked, since it cost only 70$ and when I said it to the girl who ordered recast she said: "because I don't waant to wait 6 month, I want it now!"

 

Now I HAVE seen where recasts do contain toxins that legits don't. I guess we could report them. There was a company that posted about people getting sick from recasts, especially if they are sanding and modding them.
I just don't know how you would go about reporting a toxic toy without affecting actual legit BJD companies. Now this is... a link to the USA office of import surveillance. If people reported Luo and included the address he ships from then maybe it could affect him shipping to the USA if his products test positive for illegal toxins?
Thoughts?
Import Surveillance

 

I don' know if this is a general attitude of the pro-recast community but I feel that some may see how expensive the doll's are and just assume that the companies making them have very high profit margins.

I know a lot of people justify counterfeit bags/clothes with it only cost xyz to make and there selling it for more than 10x that price so I'll buy a knock off.

Maybe it would help to put it out there how much approximately it does cost to make a bjd. It shows that if your able to get a recast so cheaply that they are cutting some serious corners on materials, pay for staff ect.

I know some won't care one bit but it might make some understand a bit more.

 

I thought toxic resin in recasts was just a rumor? I guess it is impossible to know for sure, unless someone is able to send a counterfeit doll for testing.

I agree with flornosertao and nocturneofsilence, kindness is the best method and best weapon in bringing people away from recasts. Especially being welcoming to those who have gone legit only after being part of the recast community. We are human beings and that means that we make mistakes. What's great about being human is we can learn from our mistakes and grow as better people from them. Everyone is allowed to make a mistake.