BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

I'm glad someone brought up the potential health risks. Thanks for the info @nocturneofsilence It's something I have been wondering about too because as someone else has already mentioned, resin itself is a toxic material so I would think the handling and curing of it would need to be done carefully and in the proper way. (ie. not cutting corners).

I had forgot Luts had posted that notice on their site. I remember reading it too. Could this be something that can also be brought to the attention of recast owners? Perhaps if they are also aware that their health could potentially be at risk, maybe they will listen. Or maybe they won't. But even if a small number do, that's a change of sorts.

 

WTF...I can't believe anyone in real life could have that kind of attitude. I did some delving into the recast side of tumblr, which I normally avoid like the plague, and this seriously is what they think...that the doll companies are evil greedy moneygrubbers and the counterfeiters are doing the world a valuable service. Just blows my mind because that's totally the opposite of the what the situation actually is. I think it's become abundantly clear that Luo, at least, has more money than most BJD companies will ever hope to see, and I'm willing to bet this doll counterfeiting business of his is only a side hustle, at that. He and the other counterfeiters have no genuine love or passion for or investment in dolls and the community, it's just a way for them to make a quick buck. Yet, somehow, the companies are the greedy ones.......talk about cognitive dissonance.

 

I wrote to Luts and asked them the details of what makes recast resin more toxic. They have a working understanding of the safe way to cast resin, which means they understand the wrong way as well. I asked them to tell me what chemicals/ingredients are used in recasts that make them more dangerous. If it is something (for example) like lead, then reporting it to Import Control may be made aware to check packages from Luo, from his address that he puts on the boxes he ships.
We may not be able to stop him from trademarking, we may be able to make it VERY difficult for him to get things through customs. If enough people make enough noise about it.
Waiting to hear what luts has to say.

 

This discussion really makes me wonder, as someone planning and wanting to create my own BJD dolls--- how can we protect ourselves as new doll artists from stuff like this happening? Will we have to really file trademarks with every place we want to make sure our stuff is safe in, to protect our logo's and IP?

It's also a huge deal to me that someone would go and try to use others logo's and identifying property. Not only is making the dolls hard, but to settle on a graphic design that will represent you, your work and your doll company is extremely hard and requires a lot of work.

I can't imagine how scary this is for independent doll creators right now. Also the threat of recasting has always made me wonder, how can I as an artist try my best to protect me and my work? I can only assume that placing copyright laws are expensive enough. What about my trademarks? Is there no way to do it all at once?

Im sure when I get more serious, I will have to research all of this stuff. I know the best I can do in my design, is somehow make certain things with my legits identifiable so if there were ever a time my property would be recasted, you can easily tell its a recast. That still wont fix people knowingly buying from recasters.

I really dont want to let the issue of recasters and trademark squatting to ruin my dream of creating something Im so passionate about, but it really is such a big issue especially when you start out so small and the amount of time engineering/sculpting a BJD takes.

I know this has all been said before, but I also think after all this going on, when things have calmed--- maybe we can somehow also collaborate to make a legal resource page for new artisans.

 

a problem with this is not all companies use the same formula's (Iple's glow resin is one they just developed). And it's not always the chemicals used but the 'combination' and how they go thru the process... you might have a list if ingredients... but it's how you combine them and the conditions of the surrounding area that make each different from the next. Also asking a company to give up a recipe.... you will get the KFC one faster?

 

i didn't ask them whats in theirs, i asked them what's normally in recasts

 

I would like to take a moment to applaud those of you that came clean about owning a recast. I realize that unfortunately many fall victim to the trap of unawareness and get deceived by all the wrong information. I would also like to point out though that I noticed that people who defend recast do so out of envy. They want what we have but give as many excuses as they can think of to convince themselves and each other that they are justified in their envy. We are the "haves" and they are the "have-nots" If we can prove to them that they can also have what we have just in different combinations like Legit hybrids then maybe they will be convinced that they can essentially feel good about having the real thing instead of a fake?

 

We could also start highlighting our more affordable legit BJDs on social media to promote how many legit dolls cost around the same as a recast. I feel like if we give the lesser-known low-price dolls a popularity boost, we might be able to dispel the myth among pro-recast people that inexpensive dolls are ugly/undesirable/unpopular. We might be able to sway some hearts, or at least show some newbies how many affordable, attractive legit dolls are available.

For example, I really love Akagi Doll, but I don't see many photos of those boys on IG or in FB groups. Akagi Doll boys are gorgeous and I want to own one of each, eventually!

 

@Doll-Mage that's a great idea! My dolls are all on the "less expensive" spectrum of the hobby, it could be worth it to create specific posts on my doll-related social media with price information, the companies they came from and such.

My only concern is knowing what tags to use. Some people seem to take the use of the tags "anti-recast", "pro-artist" or "recast bjd" (used on legit doll pictures to reach pro-recast communities) as an attack, which generates more hate. I tag all my IG pictures with the name of the model and the companies, but most newbies aren't familiar with them when researching. I wonder if it would be worth it to create a new tag to separate these posts or if simply using the tags "bjddoll", "bjd", "abjd" and all related tags would be sufficient. Then again, I'm not very familiar with what tags are used how, so I might be missing something obvious.

 

Then don't use those tags. Use neutral ones like "bjd"/"abjd" and style tags like "bjdcosplay"/"morigirlfashion"/"fairykei" etc

 

I really like this! I have seen so many beautiful dolls that are on the cheaper side. I never thought I would enjoy resinsoul, but there are some particular dolls that look so lovely in owner photos vs. the company pictures. I have learned that looking at owner photos actually helps me make a decision when buying. Or change any previous thoughts I might of had if a specific sculpt can pull off a specific faceup or aesthetic.

There are so many more companies too vs. RS. I really like what Swandzz on youtube does for people looking for a specific aesthetic. For example: A lot of people want the minifee aesthetic, but do not like how pricey they are. She gives information of doll bodies that look similar to minifee bodies that could make a very nice hybrid.

Information like this I think helps a lot. It helps gauge the potential of more wallet-friendly dolls many others probably would of never considered.

 

Fortunately our pt/br wikipedia page has a whole topic on recasts. It even mentions doa not allowing recasts, I even found a orthography mistake... This all I just checked now, since I got in uni wikipedia is like non existent for me since its not a trustable source. But I do agree many people go for it.

In the luts topic, maybe eveyone from the comunity who likes to giveaway should probably change their method to contests with originality proofs (since not all dolls use coa) or something, to make sure you are not giving to someone who supports recasts since thats pretty unfair.

I actually already researched a little about this and the fillers seem to be the principal worry reason. I don't think luts can help abosulutely in this because is not like there is only one wrong way, but many, so unless they took their time and money to research the recasts they probably can't be sure about what exactly is there. I even think its probably different from recast to recast. I noticed from internet pics when I was searching about how to indentify recasts that some recasts look more like the original texture while others are very bubbly, I wonder which is more dangerous.

 

I have an "unofficial" reply from Iplehouse about the squatter... i basically asked if they could possiblly make a statement.... since i went throught the English translator there this is thei reply to me personally ... the thing to note is they are working on this with other companies...

Dear Tiku
Thank you for all of your support. We have contacted other companies in Korea.
And figuring out what we can do. I, who is writing this, is just a english sit manager, do not know the specifics since our CEO is working with this matter. However it seems clear that we are going to take legal actions.
Once again, we really appreciate your support and interest for us.
Best regards,

 

what company is this from?

also, i received a reply from the always wonderful dr.mes/dollpamm and added it to the doc and tumblr. ^^

poor dr. mes ;;

 

Man, seeing responses like the one from Dr. Mes just makes my heart go out to the artists behind these companies so much more. I'm so glad that they're going the class action route in filing the lawsuit against Luo as well- it will at least distribute the financial burden of legal action among the companies involved rather than the entire cost falling on them individually.

I think a practical way that we can continue to support these wonderful companies is by not only continuing to buy their dolls, but adding encouraging messages about how much we care about them when we do so. Hopefully it will lift their spirits a little bit, and let them know that we see them as people as well as doll makers.

 

i'm already running two projects in light of the recent events, but i was thinking about making like a fan book we could all sign and add pictures to? for each company would be very labour intensive, but even just having people sign like a google doc or something with little notes about how much they care would be nice.

i remember when tales of link closed (mobile game) the reddit community was putting together a thank you fan book in google docs or something... i thought it was such a sweet idea....
i missed out on signing it, now that i think about it ;;

 

oops my bad i took it from the company specific page lol It's from Iplehouse ... the En manager replied to me.

a separate note this is me extrapolating information form conversations and post both here, on Facebook and my reply from Iplehouse.

Based on what I know, and have read an "educated guess" is that Iple, Dollits and Raccoon have possibly banded and the other company who's name i always forget being the 3rd sculptor to go solo from iple in the last few years.

I deliberately 'blinder' myself from many companies simply to not destroy my finances. These and a few more i have ordered from are they only companies I deliberately follow. So I can't say anything about others.

 

Iplehouse received help from KOTRA (Korea Trade Investment Promotion Agency) back in 2014 and that is who Dollshe mentioned, so I am assuming that the Korean companies are all banding together with the help of KOTRA to deal with the problem.

 

OMG, this would be too cute! I already want to join.
In kpop fanclubes we do often gather messages, pictures and signatures in a book+dvd with videos to send idols, and they love it, I don't know how bjd artists would feel about it, but they cant possibly hate it, right? I wish we knew more personally about them so we could make them happy sending them simple things like, food or some kind of really cool badge/trophy that acknowledge their great job for the community. My doll is literally a grounding item which keeps me out of depression and anxiety crisis, so really, there is so much I wish I could say to thank fairyland for that.

 

Agreed, but we have to keep in mind that even when we are the nicests people around, we're also still fighting against rumors from inside the anti-recast community. @vonbonbon said that maybe DoA should do something about their image. Problem is that there are loads of false rumors going around. I remember when my company was dragged through the mud, there were still quite a few people who believed those rumors, despite of how visible I was and how nice my responses were. When (new) people are part of a community, they tend to believe the vocal people of said group, no matter if they're right or not. Hear enough horror stories and it is logical to think that 'where there's smoke, there's fire'.

Personally, I don't think that kittens and rainbows aren't going to be able to fight this off, but that doesn't mean that we should change our tactics. Being nice and transparent is good. Just don't expect to change the opinion of the masses, or the negative image of this forum anytime soon. Rumors are difficult to combat.

This is absolutely the general consensus. Dolls are expensive, and so the profit margins must be high. It is one of the reasons why I get quite frequent requests to make a completely custom doll from scratch for a customer, beause the dolls in my webshop are too expensive for them. Usually, they offer me to pay 50 to 100 dollars for this XD.

The main reason for this is that it is easy to research the prices for resin. Go to the smooth-on website, and you get a general idea of how much the material costs are for resin and silicone. The casting services also show their fees on their webpage. People forget to calculate the time it took to sculpt and engineer the doll, however. And so it looks like dolls are overpriced. In reality, they are notoriously UNderpriced. I sell my sculptures for three times the amount I can get for my dolls, and sculpting statues only takes me 2 months, instead of an entire year. The main reason is that with my statues, I'm actually able to give my self an hourly wage. In the doll-business, you won't be able to do this; prices are more or less fixed due to competition and what customers consider 'reasonable'.