BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

Once more, here's the list of companies with no contact confirmation, updated and put in alphabetical order.

April Story,
Chica Bonita,
Chicabi Doll,
Cocoriang,
Crobidoll,
Dara,
DollBom,
Doll'n'Doll,
IBJDD,
Kreamdoll,
Leekeworld,
Lina Chouchou,
Monochrome,
Migidoll,
Monodee,
Napi,
Rosenlied
RSDoll,
Sadol,
Withdoll,

 

@Cynthia in FlintHills, @Silk, @vonbonbon, I applaud your patience and competence.
Am I the only one who wished ppl would at the very least read the official news post before posting, even if they have no time to go over the whole thread? That would at least cover all the basics of the situation... and maybe help prevent the same old rumours and allegations currently swamping the popular social media from reappearing here time and again? Sorry, I do not wish to sound unkind, really I don't, but slowly my nerves get frayed with that debacle going on...

 

Could Withdoll be the last missing ex-Iplehouse artist? Someone mentioned the ex-Iples (Dollits, RaccoonDoll, and one more) were taking action together ...

 

I have sculpted, molded and cast my own heads/parts. If I can figure it out, so can a recaster.
They can also save money in other ways: like by using lower quality silicone; it produces less casts, with lower detail reproduction ...which is super common in recasts. I would say they are just using lower quality resins, silicones & fillers rather than lead-filled, extra-toxic stuff. I would like to do all we can to help, but lets find more ways to attack this problem than assuming they are more toxic than legits and wasting a lot of time/energy in that when we could be chasing better options instead.

 

I'm so sorry that this happened to you and to so many newbies I'm lucky that recasting wasn't near as big as it has become when I first started otherwise I feel like I would have gotten duped as well. I couldn't be prouder of people who switch from buying recasts to buying legit and supporting artists. I know that kind of thing can be an addictive slippery slope and hard to get out of, even if it was an accident at first. Do you mind if I ask where you first saw/found out about BJDs? I'm hoping maybe we as a community can find a way to reach as many newbies as possible and as quickly as possible with information to hopefully prevent this kind of thing from happening to them.

Wow that attitude is so disgusting, I'm fuming right there with you! Why do legit dolls cost so much more than recasts? That's simple and easy. First: the cost of developing the doll (and the skill of the artist) which can take months or years during which time the artist is not being paid for their work and 2) Recasters operate in China where the cost of living is SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than the US, UK, Japan, Korea, etc...I wonder would those same people screaming about how BJD companies are "greedy" and "ripping people off" would accept an annual salary of $3,000-$10,000 USD while still living in a country where the cost of living makes that salary peanuts? If $300 a month is good enough for a Chinese laborer, isn't the recast buyer "greedy" and "ripping off" their employer by expecting more?

I LOVE this idea Not just because it gives a better name and more popularity to less expensive but still beautiful dolls (and let's face it, a lot of young newbies will want to follow what's popular rather than sift through hundreds of companies) but also because it shows people that you don't need $500-$1000 to own a BJD. A lot of newbies are sadly suckered into buying recasts for $150-$300 because they think that's not enough to buy a legit doll but that couldn't be further from the truth!

 

Please be more specific about so said better options we could be chasing...

 

I thought that was what we were here to figure out together? Several ideas have been put forth so far and we're discussing the viability of those ideas...aren't we?

 

I don't know about you guys but I hardly ever share or post pictures of my dolls like I did when I was new and even then it's only when someone requests a certain thing that I have. I know the loudest voice (in this case the recast supporters) is the voice that's heard but maybe those like myself who just enjoy their dolls privately can work on becoming a lot more vocal and visible and make our voice loud to match theirs and to reach newbies.

 

Some ideas are already being worked on, I have joined some projects. I don't see how discussing the possibility of recast being toxic disturbs it all, I mean, we are just sending specialists some questions, that cant really hurt anyone, can?

 

You said you'd need more info to know if that was a possibility. As someone who's done it personally, I was trying to help provide some of the info on how they make dolls more cheaply than legits. I'm only one artist. Ask lots of them what they think...hire a lab if you like. I'm not saying not to ask, just not to put a bunch of eggs in that basket.
Put your energy into what you think will help, whatever that is. For me, I think the promotion of less expensive dolls is a great idea and I'll be putting more effort into that than I have in previous.

 

Looking at the list, many companies didn’t register trademarks even in China, one of their biggest markets, and for most, it’s where they’re based in. It is part of any business/individual responsibilities to protect your own work, and trademark it especially when you’re selling it. Regardless of profits, it should be one of the first things that you have to do. However much/little their profit margin is, it should have been prioritised otherwise it will come a day such as this where it hits them even harder than not doing it. The risk and consequences of having the trademark stolen is far more than spending x amount of money initially to protect it. As the name of the companies is the brand, it is crucial to trademark those name, especially in China.

Now they have to pay much more to fight for that trademark.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

I understand your point, and I'm thankfull for your opinion. I just feel like you are dismissing the possibility too easily. But your opinion was actually helpful, because I didn't think about studying casting before. Now if the guys I emailed about the law side say its possible to ban the itens, I will sure work on studying this!
As I said, I'm already in other projects mentioned before, so I'm not putting all eggs in one basket. I have quite some time until july and personal reasons to feel so overhelmed by all this deal, so I want to work hard on helping, so please dont worry about me wasting my effort.

I'm sorry but if I started a business the last thing I would worry about was to trademark it in China. I know the big companies should have. But the smaller ones? I know we live in a globalized world, but who would start a small business thinking someone from the other side of the world would try to break their business down in such a cheap way? I've seen people say "your country is not the world and blablabla you should watch for other countries too", but really, is not just an USA X China thing, there is a lot of countries involved, how much would be to trademark your brand in every single country? Thats crazy!

 

I completely agree. There are also people who we can never change their minds either, and will continue to try and push the recast narrative. Spreading mis-information and rumors: DOA is evil and elitist, pro-artists are bullies, etc.

No amount of kindness will sway them. How can we change DOA's image when many are spreading these rumors? It's not a simple answer unfortunately.

Im sorry you have to deal with clients like that sometimes. This is non-bjd, but I have dealt with people throwing fits that my commissions are too expensive when I am factoring barely above United States minimum wage hourly for my work. Or people wanting my artwork for free.

It's not just dolls, there are people who honestly don't believe artwork should be payed for. I always find recasts alarming until I realize, this isn't just a doll thing. Some people don't like paying for artwork, even though it's artwork is called artwork for a reason. It's WORK. They have expectations of everything being about the same price or cheaper than mass-produced items. Claiming we should be pricing lower because we need to be competitive with a mass-producing market.

When in reality, hand-made/art is itself it's own market and we couldn't get by charging that. We would be suffering losses, sometimes not even covering materials. I imagine this mindset (or a similar) is what pro-recasts are using to justify recasts.

I remember I saw them in a youtube video. I was into monster high dolls, and found faceup videos of BJD. I couldn't find any information on how to buy BJD from the video. I think at the time, I might of didn't see where the youtuber had any "where to buy" information or they might of had none. I can't say.

So I went to google. First thing that popped up was this store, I think it was BJD-Shop. It also comes up as a top result when googling "fairyland bjd".

 

@Nefla the first place I saw bjd was flickr, I was already in pullip community and some people collect both kind of dolls so I found about it. That was yeaaars ago, I always thought "its too expensive for me", but I ended up buying second handly this year. One thing I think its worth mentioning, is that blythes have counterfeits (TBL) that are widely accepted. Its important to remember people the difference from a highly industrialized item like a blythe and a bjd because if we keep pressing the same "its fake, its morally wrong" buttom it wont reach some people who don't really give a damn about morals. I mean, people have different morals, so is not even debatable.

 

I like the idea of promoting the less expensive/more affordable brands. About 70% of my collection is from those companies. From someone who never imagined I would ever own one let alone nineteen dolls, it can be done. It is spread out over ten years of accumulation but it was worth it. I did it by saving and taking advantage of company events when they happen. It's really not that hard to buy affordable legit dolls. It comes down to patience and being able to save a bit at a time and the persistence and willingness to do that. Personally I think when you finally get the doll in hand, it's a great feeling because you've had to work for it in a manner of speaking.

 

I found BJDs through DeviantArt and got most of my info from there, DoA was invitation only at that point. I did find one forum that was available after a bit, but it started on dA.
One of my eternal pet peeves is people not adding details to their pics, making research extremely difficult. If more people could start adding more info about sculpts and brands to the pics they're already posting anyway, that might help newbies find the right kind of information ... especially about more affordable dolls and hybriding options.

 

Honestly I'm really putting all my hope and faith into MORE of us taking a stand! You might be shy but, you have a voice. The more of us speak up and continue to speak out about this the better.

 

Back to the what Luo is he/she topic, if this is S/L, why is he trademarking his brand as Queneifs instead of Oueneifs as they always have been known? Here is what S/L says. And here is the research someone did about the adress of S/L vs the other luo. Someone mentioned a print of S/L luo admitting it was actually him, but I never saw it and every single person I know that contacted him out of curiosity had a negativy answer so I really wish I could actually see this print to run through photoshop and search for manipulation.

Some people have been saying things like "I dont care which luo it is, it would be great if S/L payed for what he did by being a victim of unfairness too", but you do realize this would mean the actual culprit still out there owning the recast market right? Thats why the ideas to drive newbies away from the recast markert are cool. While the companies fight the luo guy/girl, we fight recasts as a whole.

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Ah, someone asked me to translate the part br/pt wikipedia has about recasts to english wikipedia, but I don't really think its that well written, you can probably do better writting it yourself. But just to give you an ideia of what it says: "Some stores sell counterfeits dolls, they are called recast. The reason why it is called recast is because a new cast is made from the already finished doll. (It kind sounds too redudant in english). [...] Since, after the prime aplication, the doll is sanded to remove imperfections, the recasts are usually smaller and may have problems in the juctions. [...] The resin are usually from lower quality and thinner [...] which makes it more fragile [...] Many groups and communities, including den of angels, the biggest bjd international community, don't allow recast pictures and commercialization. [...] The biggest problem with recast is the harm to the companies, which are usually small and have a few artists. So, the smaller ones can even go out of business because of those falsifications. [...] It's important to warn newbies to avoid buying from sites like taobao and aliexpress [...] "

 

I ask you one simple question. Do you have the slightest idea just how cost prohibitive it is to get a trademark/copywrite in a country you do not live in? It's not cheap in your own country nevermind all the hidden costs that would be involve in legally binding contracts from multiple language users. And no two countries work the same way. And what might be legal where the company is may not be in another country. So no, saying they are at fault for not being international lawyers (which they would require making cross boarder contracts) is at best unreasonable for the vast majority of companies involved. Too many ppl in this community grossly over estimate the size of some of the so called "large" companies. A widely known name does not equate large numbers of employee's and resources. Iplehouse for one had ppl who essentially hold down 2+ jobs, One en-translator was also a primary face up artist (just for example). Time they spent on one task was time away from anther... So no they do not have pots of money and ppl on stand by to do all the extra trademarking...

do 'not' quoate me but i think someone said maybe "Creature Doll"... im not even sure i have the name right....

 

Thanks, that was me about the wiki I will have a think how to proceed for the English page!