BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

Thank you for clearing that up. I've only been in the hobby since 2014, so I'm not sure how dolls were protected or not before then. I suppose the threat wasn't so great as it is these days.

 

It really wasn't... and that's one of the big reasons why many older dolls tend not to have all of the documentation and ephemera that modern buyers think are absolute musts. No one worried about having to have a branded box to prove authenticity (If the doll even came in one, because some didn't-), so they weren't always kept. Very few companies issued certificates of any kind, much less certificates with trackable serial numbers. Sales data for older past orders is often lost when a company redesigns their website, but many of us didn't think we'd ever need a copy to prove provenance and so didn't keep print-outs or confirmation emails.

That's why a lot of us here stress research and the importance of knowing about what you're buying as frequently as we do, especially if you're interested in those older sculpts that date from "The Time Before"... If you're waiting for a CP/Delf with a CoA, for instance, or a Volks School head with an attached head-plate, or an old-school Dollshe with a branded box, you'll never find one. You need to know what might or might not have come with the doll you're after, and how to tell if a doll is 'real' even in the absence of paperwork.

 

But haven't they migrated the old data? I had an arkose/Morivala, who was from the end of 2011, and his coa numer even mentioned something along the line of 'bought 2011, added to system 2014'. Means of you can't find find your nubmer in the system, you just have to ask Soom directly and they'll look it up.

Even though recasters are copying coas and metal plates, one has to remember the backlash if someone found out you you've knowingly sold a recast as a legit. You'd be kicked out of doa and the bjd groups (or wherever you sold it), people will put up 'buyers beware' posts everywhere, and the internet never forgets.

 

Isnt not having a COA a problem for like, all dolls from before 2015? The secondhand market still worked all this time even with this, I don't think its now that it will be ruined.

 

if you mean Soom only i can't say but this is not the case for 'all' other companies.... ive been buying iples from before 2012 with CoA's ... just saying cuz im not sure if you meant for all companies or not

 

Problem with him faking original boxes, CoAs and head plates is, that not only people who are really caring to buy legit dolls will have a harder job on proving or confirming a legit doll which makes it harder to buy and sell dolls 2nd hand, but also will mislead people who are not aware of recasts at all OR even that dolls get recasted including their most common proofs are getting faked, too.

Artists and companies will have to switch their ‘security’ to something more extravagant to trick the recasters and make it possible to identify legit dolls with minimum effort.

 

I did mean all companies, so thank you for the information, I didnt knew some already had CoAs before recasts being a thing. I am kind of a fairyland addict so I only knew about them I guess XD

 

I thought of different ways to achieve this, since personal records like a serial number is a hard to maintain proof (think of buying second hand, then selling again and again. If the new seller won’t register from new every time, the serial number will be useless more and more).

How about changing the head plate’s design on a regular basis in addition to the serial number?
How about a hard to copy CoA with watermarks etc?
How about adding a chip in the inside of the head to register the doll electronically?

Another problem is that bodies also get recasted...

I personally save every communication eMail when I purchased a doll directly from a company to have further proof instead of only providing the box, head plate and CoA. Yet, it’s hard to tell people to do that, too. Because not everybody will.

 

Wouldnt change the head plate design also have the same second market problem?
I like the second idea, but the 3rd would probably make the doll really expensive (it would also need a database to keep all the registers).

 

If you change the head plate on a regular basis for each time period (let’s say every new season), recasters will need to go with the rhythm for every company who changes their head plates with a rhythm.

This way, if I offer a Doll by company XYZ bought in April 2018, any interested people can look up if the head plate and given purchasing date match to verify this doll is legit by checking an official data base given by the company XYZ. For double proof, they can check the serial number: if the company registered a doll sold in April 2018, this doll is 100% legit. No new registration needed when reselling the doll, minimum effort, maximum security.
Since companies would have their own rhythm of changing head plates, recasters will have to study this move very intensely to make their dolls look legit.

 

best way to show 'legit' is send a print out of the sites order form... only they buyers can access that. Can't copy what you can't find and theft of that would be a major crime ... world wide security breach of private information. If i sell a doll a printout of my 'original' order form' from the company web site goes with it. And can't cry 'private info' cuz if you are sending money and mail back and forth... the recipient already knows who you are. And your payment 'method' is listed... not say a bank or card info. This is something ppl need to start doing .... and printing off copies for their own records is good for insurance reasons... I have a file drawer dedicated to order sheets, CoA's, manuals and Shipping pages... i even photocopy ones i can't remove from a box top.. Your want legit? .... as the saying goes "I got the receipts" literally lol

if you sell, make a copy to keep and send originals with the doll/CoA

 

Hello, this is COCORIANG.
Here are some news for trademark issue.

The current situation is not good.
That their horrible behavior is destroying the original company by not only registering illegal trademarks, but also placing them in social commerce and online stores in many countries.
They sell aggressively regardless of the size of the doll company.
Yes, All BJD companies are suffering from them.
They are also hiring location lawyers from each country to circumvent the law nets.

Today, we were found an illegal company in Korea that had forged documents and sold illegal recast products.
Surprisingly, they are using the same address as the company that trademark issue.
And even though they eventually failed, they even tried to participate in the Korean event in the name of a Korean company.

Probably, Their behavior will continue until so many companies go bankrupt.
Or... until they disappear...
((I talked to him through Facebook, but it didn't work at all.))
((He didn't seem to understand our common sense. As if he were a sociopath....))

Before that, we will try some action for solve this.
First, In Korea, Many companies are preparing indictments to registered trademarks without permission.
Our lawyer will be appointed soon and will be solve this trademark issues together.
I am trying to involve as many companies as possible.
[ COCORIANG, TTAY, Chicabi, Dollshe craft, Be with you, Darak-i, Sadol, Migi doll, Rosenlied ....]

Please help us stop them from destroying our creative will.

Thank you for reading the long article. I'll be back soon with next news.

 

I know what you mean, and I do it the same. One of my drawers is dedicated to all those documents proving my dolls to be legit.

Yet, I’m not only aiming to find a solution for people who already know about the problem in these alarming days, but for a solution to future doll collectors and beginners to make a purchase easier without showing off a hundred different documents.
If you only go by “eat or die” or “show off your receipt or stay away” you’ll probably sell either nothing or plain don’t help with the problem (since there are a ton of people out there losing their documents for whatever reason.)

 

But really, if you have a legit doll and other recasts, can you just show the site order form multiple times?

Thank you again for the update!
I will keep your backs up here in Brasil, this recast business aint getting anywhere near my country without a fight.
Today too, be strong! You did a good job!

 

thank you so much for keeping us updated. This whole situation is so sickening...

 

...yes, that is what I mean, I am sorry I should have included that into my post.
Especially if you own a legit one and have a problem because the Number is not within the system...v-v

I also have the opinion that some of the recast-issue could be solved if some companies bring back the old limited dolls again.
Without FU and clothing, just the sculpts themselve.
Because whenever I see a recast doll, I often have the feeling them are dolls that are no longer available.
But that is just from what I see around the FB-selling groups that allow recasts too.

But I am also glad -like many others here- that DOA allows to talk open minded about this issue. We just can prevent art theft when we talk about it.

 

Nope. My older Sooms aren't in the system at all. If your Arkose was made in 2011, he'll be there. The site redesign was in 2010.

Just be aware that that information isn't necessarily going to be available on the company's web site forever, and be sure to keep your own locally-saved screenshots or copies. Not only can doll companies close down and disappear with very little (or no-) notice, but when websites and shopping cart systems are redesigned, old order information may be lost. (If I go back to my Orders page at Luts today, for instance, my oldest purchases from them aren't listed there. At some point they updated the order database and removed those old records.) ​

 

Thank you for the update @cocoriang !
We are wishing you all the best!

 

But I have to ask - if it was so easy to prevent the recaster from selling recasts as to register a trademark then why didn't the companies do it themselves in the first place? I hate to seem as if I am blaming a victim because that is definitely not my intention... but I just don't understand. Even if the process of registering a trademark costs money, wouldn't they still want to do it anyway if they are losing money because of recasts? Especially in China if they know what the laws are like? I mean it is crazy for us but aren't people in China aware of what the laws are like in their country when they are running a business for many years? I hope this is not taken the wrong way, but I just really want to understand it because something just doesn't seem right about all of this...

 

Unfortunately, it is not easy from both legal and financial povs.

Legal: Assuming one is completely fluent in the language and have access to electronic filings and international credit cards, etc., one has to navigate convoluted rules and regs and figure out what's what. In the US, one could file the same trademark in different classes... I looked at the trademark section of USPTO site, and very quickly realize if I wanted to register TMs for dolls, I either have to spend a lot of time on research or consult counsel who is familiar with registering toys and dolls as to which class(es) to choose, to maximize the protection. (How many degrees am I from Mattel's IP counsel on Linkedin, I wondered... XP)

Financial: Just for the US filing, it's currently US$225 per mark per class (before any attorney's fees). The business-minded individual with access to competent counsel would register multiple similar marks and in as many applicable classes as possible. That adds up very quickly. "Competent counsel" isn't cheap, especially when they specialize in IP/TM and international law. How many dolls would one have to sell before any labor and material costs and other overheads just to register, and just in the US? Luo claimed in his digital VC that he graduated from one of China's premiere law school. How many of his victims have similar free access to legal advice?

Then even if one has the means to register, it doesn't stop the infringer from bad faith registration of something similar to one's mark. (Like Luo did "Dollsh".) The legal and financial implications becomes mind-boggling. I sincerely hope the legit companies have enough governmental and combined financial power behind them to fight this.

A slightly dated article, but it gives a decent overview of the procedure and costs in the US, I think: http:// www.ipwatchdog.com/2013/05/23/trademark-protection-is-litigation-worth-the-cost/id=40711/