BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

If you don't think the BJD community is currently incredibly fragile, in the midst of this hot mess that has divided it brutally and may very well cause the end of legitimate companies and artists careers in the BJD world, I really don't know what to tell you at this point. In fact, I think you and I have said all we need to, to eachother.

 

I still would hope that moving forward, legit companies might consider a Trade Association. It might sound really crazy, but candle makers did this to self-regulate their products. Doing so ensured that consumers would not need to worry about the safety of the products and it also helped all members be respectful of each other's formulas. This would help currently as several companies banding together to afford legal council will be less of a financial impact as each company seeking their own. It's really a shame when it comes down to the consumers being advocates for their favorite companies, I would hope it would be the other way around sooner rather than later. The trend of these 3 D modeled sculpts is going to continue to create friction between companies and the ones that are really going to loose are the customers.

I would like to add that this is not only a problem with BJDs, but with all high-end dolls or dolls that are marketed towards adults/collectors. There are probably dozens upon dozens of legit doll makers that would benefit from a Trade Association. I've even heard of knock-offs from China that are actually toxic to consumers and they believe they are buying a legit product. This is a huge problem in the doll world at large.

 

It was mentioned previously here and I agree, it would be great to have some association, but it would also be hard to include everyone because of the differences the artists have with each other. Maybe they could try something like a sindicate where there would be divisions for areas and things like that? I'm really happy seeing koreans companies working together! But it also makes me wonder why some of the affected koreans companies arent in the bunch, was it their choice or they werent invited at all? Is not my business, I am just curious of how the whole thing would work. Like having doctor stranger hability of seeing all the possibilities of future.

 

@mollym, if you look earlier in this thread, you'll see the news that a number of Korean BJD companies seem to be banding together in this way -- I hope we'll hear more about the outcome of their association soon.

 

I saw it, South Korea has decent intellectual property laws as far as I'm aware. I am hoping a larger association is formed. It's not a issue that's only affecting one country, it affects the entire industry. Of all the dolls that are recasted/knock-offs/scams, the vast majority are manufactured and sold in China. There's too much fussing between companies as well. It's not a good idea to have the consumers try to sort these problems for the companies either. In the long run, collectors loose on this because it devalues their dolls, even if they were bought from a legit company at a time that their dolls were not under scrutiny. Not only is blatant recasting a problem, but this business of one accusing another of copying a 3 D modeled doll or dolls is uncharted territory that companies need to sort between themselves, and not throw the problem into the laps of any forum, meetup group, second hand market, etc..... It's just unprofessional and discourteous to the lot of us.

Personally, this makes me want to deal with the second hand market even more because I'm now wary of new dolls. Even if the doll comes from an individual artist, the casting service they use can influence weather or not the doll has any second hand value. I try very hard to only accept dolls into my collection that I really, really like and intend to keep permanently. Of course, a few just didn't 'fit in' or I just had a brain block that kept me from enjoying them as much as I hoped. So, even I have offered some dolls in the second hand market. I could be the only one that has more faith in the second hand market rather than faith in established companies.

 

@mollym since you mentioned most recasters being chinese, I remember there was a talk somewhere about how chinese companies arent often recasted, like, recasters there fear they will be caught since they are under the same jurisdiction (its only a theory though). So an association kind of thing would be really great in the sense of having chinese companies too helping the other countries companies and thats sure reason for recasters to fear because what they do is wrong, and there would be nowhere to run, and this rhymes larala (8)

 

Yes, and it's not just BJD type of dolls that are being recasted. This is a problem for many different types of dolls. It's high time for many legit companies to talk to each other. If anyone has some contact information on who is getting organized in South Korea, then maybe we can (as collectors/consumers) all ask them to make it an international effort to include all legit companies, Chinese and other markets to get this problem under control. Personally, as a collector, I do realize this might increase the cost of new dolls, but it would also help to ensure the value of my collection doesn't become worthless. A healthy second hand market is a good indicator of the value and appreciation of art of any sort. It would also help prevent BJDs and other nice dolls from becoming bygone fads. This would combat recasting and at the same time, help the companies work together to agree what counts as copying as this is now a problem when a 3 D modeled doll is too similar to another doll that is also 3 D modeled. Inside arbitration would be better for everyone. There is no recasting when this happens, but one company can ruin another company and make the dolls previously released be treated like recasts and make the owners feel like criminals. I get upset that the consumer part of the hobby has to fill the role of doll police between companies. They should not put that on us, they should work it out themselves.

These sorts of problems are not new, nor are they limited to BJDs. There was a small thread about the history of BJD dolls, the drama that ensued after patents were made for those and related doll owner communities, but I believe that thread is now gone.

 

A friend related to me how she noticed some recasts sculpts that were sold by multiple sellers in aliexpress are now only showing up for luo's store. Some other even more famous sculpts still are being sold by one or other recaster beside luo, but I kind think there is a lot less than it used to be? I'm not sure, maybe I just never paid the right amount of atention, but I see multiples adverts from luo's differents stores, but not as many as I remember when it comes to others recasters...

I checked some famous stores and the sculpts are actually there, but not really named for the brands which seems like the trademark is being used against them?
They are using the term "stenzhorn" and I'm really confused cause I dont know what the hell is that supposed to be c.c
There is even a "new arrived beautiful 1/6 doll for baby girl bday" and like no info about the sculpt and company at all.
That really makes harder for people who dont know the stores already to find them, which would be great if there wasnt lots of luo's adv showing in the results.

 

Wait, so for USA the process is available for public opposition on June 19th?

Everyone, we should start thinking about this!
We need to collectively put our heads together and figure out what we are going to say, what documentation we would like to provide. We need at least a bullet point list of all the necessary information to get the point across that not only is this guy a thief, approving this trademark will work to ensure the destruction of an hundreds of small businesses around the world, and prevent future small businesses from starting succeeding in this field! Even

This is the least we can do for the artists we love, the least we can do to fight back against Luo and protect our BJD community.

After this we can all work together to reflect on what we can do to better provide pro recasters the education and compassion they need to feel safe and informed enough that they can stop supporting recasts and fight alongside us. We mustn't respond to toxicity with more toxicity. I believe we can do this. We love this hobby and our community so much. We can work together for this cause.

 

I wonder if we have standing to oppose? Or we need to argue that we indeed have the standing? There are also filing fees involved (as with all things. Sigh). At least though it's just based on written record.

http://www.wipo.int/sct/en/comments/pdf/sct17/us_1.pdf

Agree w not responding with toxicity with more toxicity, and instead working together.

 

I thought we didn't have a say in opposition, cause that how it works in countries I know and I kind forgot I dont know a lot about usa, but anyway, @ATYL link seems to imply that third parts can actually "prevent the registration of a mark". I wouldn't recommend anyone to join this without consulting a lawyer though, as law is a serious matter and may cause you problems. It would be great if someone here was a lawyer in USA or had a lawyer that could talk a bit with the community to guide people here and collect proofs to send. I don't have anything from iplehouse or dollshe, so I can't really help in this cases XD

 

the opposition itself doesn't seem difficult, looking at this sample filing http:// online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/2015_0205_redbull.pdf
I imagine anyone with $300 can file pro se. (so I hope the artists/companies affected are at least doing that.)

according to this https:// www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/opposing-canceling-trademark-registration.html
it's "any party who may be damaged by the actual or proposed registration of a mark". do we as consumers qualify? I haven't yet found anything that definitively says we do. doesn't mean there isn't though. (or that we can't argue for it, just that having precedents would be better.)

 

I would say collectors would be damaged as this would affect the value of a collection. Also, I hope that all vendors and makers are aware of the date to file opposition in the US. Is anyone able to contact them easily?

Having a recognized Trademark it the US can sometimes help to keep or obtain a Trademark in other regions. Each company, or interested party will need $300 to file an opposition. I have no doubt that some legal council would be helpful for every party involved. Perhaps some of the companies can get together and get a group deal for legal council? That might cost them a whole lot less in the long run, and prevent this thief from offering his counterfeit goods in the US market.

 

I was told luo is already making "good use" of his trademarks rights, taking new pictures and using fairyland original logo on them!

 

Oh sh** (no, I will not write here what I want to say now, it helps nobody). So what now? Anything we can still do?

 

What just baffels me is how he get the trademark in the first place. I mean you would think they (the place where you register the trademark) wold atleast do some little chek your not copying an already existing company. I think it's not hard to just google a name, and especially fairyland would probably pop up emidiatly and showing that fairyland already is alive long before recaster produced a doll. Maybe it's a really western view but fairyland can clearly show their dolls where there first, and the logo is already conected to them for a long time.
Just crossing my fingers justice will be there in time.

 

I wish I knew how to contact all the companies.... I have no clue as the only new-to-me dolls were ordered primarily from dealers/vendors. The others, I'm not sure if they would understand me very well. I really wish right now I was able to access the Chinese collector community as I'm sure they have some personal connections to the makers.

 

They were all already contacted, if you have anything more to tell them you can just ask for help, I'm sure you will find someone willing to help ^^
Having connections in the chinese community would be sure helpful, even doa doesnt seems to have a lot of chinese members...

 

I'm so glad I had someone to show me the wrongs and rights of the bjd community, I almost would've bought a recast without knowing!!

 

Hi Gockt here, long time lurker / active worker in BJD companies in Korea
We all know this is getting ugly and there's not much community can do BUT not buying recasts.

I did a panel at DN 2018 with Cocoriang / who's in head charge of international suing process rn
And we had a time and chance to educate con attendees.


Here are few things on how you can help out companies

1. Educate your friends. Or newbies who wants to start their hobby in BJD.

- Be honest. Most of new people just type BJD in eBay or Amazon, and buys whatever pops up, which are recasts.
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2. When you see those ads or listing on eBay / Amazon / Ali express / etc, report them.

- That's the best way to help out the companies right now. You cannot donate them money or anything. Removing ads to low the visibility will help.

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3. Most of all. DO NOT BUY RECASTS

- I mean, duh.

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If you have more questions and what not, tag me on this thread.