BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

Dunno how people thought this issue shouldn't be covered by DOA. Personally, I'm debating on leaving the bjd Facebook groups I'm in as they deleted everything concerning this issue as if hiding it would make the problem go away. As far as I'm concerned, that's enabling the conterfeiting no matter how much they explain that it's to keep civility/drama out of their groups. It is enabling/supporting by omission/silence. There is no such thing as being neutral to recasts. You either support it or you don't. In order to be neutral, you have to see some good in it for you to not see why it is morally and financially evil. The neutrality (or better yet apathy) probably helped this issue grow much bigger imho.

I had a zero tolerance on recasts for my shop and I've accidentally dealt with counterfeits in the past. Someone who asked me to custom their heads kept insisting theirs was real, that they'd never buy recasts, despite my questioning certain features (namely company logo) only for me to catch them commenting to purchase on the counfeiter's Facebook site. That blatant lying left a bad taste in my mouth and ultimately I stopped doing commissions. And this is why I personally think recast friendly people are a different ilk and why I am vehemently against them and recasts.

And the thing is, recasts and the mindset has ruined the second hand market, not just the new stuff to be produced. Older items are so hard to sell nowdays because they lack coa/markings that are more prevalent today. And as far as prices, gauging what is appropriate is so difficult as they are now expected to be so low (to compete for budget spenders) and yet also not so low that it is a red flag for recasts.

Ultimately unless this issue is faced by all of the community, nothing will change and recasts and recasters are just going to continue their business. Their business model is profit through stealing and selling bulk, what do they care about the hobby they are inundating with fakes? (and I feel like this mindset too is shared by recast owners)

 

Something I’m wondering about, not sure if anyone can answer, but:

How will this affect the secondhand market?

Obviously, we are concerned about artists first and foremost, but the ability to sell a doll you don’t bond with affects the decision to buy it in the first place. If these trademarks go into effect, will that make it illegal for us to sell legit dolls to certain countries? Will it count as selling/importing a ‘counterfeit’ trademarked item, which is illegal in many countries? I sincerely hope not, but it does make me worry about selling internationally. I’d hate to limit legit secondhand buyers or limit future purchases because of this whole disaster.

Mods, if this is way off topic or inappropriate to discuss, please do delete this and let me know. I just thought it might be another important factor to consider while fighting for our artists.

 

I would think that at least as far as the US is concerned the second hand market would remain at least relatively unaffected in terms of re-selling, and that the second hand sale of dolls would be covered under first sale doctrine if they were legitimately purchased.
Though I'm not a lawyer or anything so I'm not 100% certain on that.

 

I have noticed some very upsetting arguments made by recast owners that the Legit companies are to blame for not paying for the trademark due to taxes. Is there any truth to those allegations? Does anyone have any more information about why legit companies haven't taken care of this issue before it came to this Aside from cost?

 

I'm pretty sure second hand market wouldn't be a problem within each country, but it is sure worrisome when it comes to international market.

 

now that's just straight up victim blaming. i can imagine that aside from cost, they might just not have known that this was a thing they could do/needed to do. most small time artists don't really think about trademarking themselves, especially in other countries, you know? what luo is doing is completely unprecedented, there was literally no way to see this level of moral corruption coming.

 

I read this too, but that person is quite biased so I wouldn't really mind what she/he says. Luts for example says they actually have the trademark in china, still they are involved in the problem, so we can't give any credit to that argument.

 

I don't think so. It's legal to sell your Louis Vouton bag, so long as you don't claim to be the designer/owner of the brand. Registering trademark is to see who the rightful owner of the brand name and so to define who is allowed to sell under that name. But hobbyists are simply selling an item they own, they have nothing to do with trademark law.

 

but in some countries you cant really send a LV bag without documentation proving its original, I mean, I don't think anything happens to you if you send, but the item wont get in the country.

 

also, an update on the trademark notification list, i just got a response from bambicrony, you can check it out on the list: bjd trademark notifications (luo aftermath 2k18)

 

@mangameow It isn't unprecedented, unfortunately. Seems it is very much a thing. However, I still don't blame the doll companies for not knowing this and not going through all the rigmarole and expense of registering their trademark in every single country that a trademark squatter might want to hit them. This has been an eye-opener and a very, very sad business.

The Five Kinds of China Trademark Squatters | China Law Blog

 

sigh, i suppose that's true, and being in denial won't help.... i just never thought something so awful would come to such a niche hobby. ;__;

it's no fair to the doll companies, especially the really tiny ones.... i'm so heartbroken.

 

Sure, but that has to do with counterfeiting. It's like proving that the doll you've sold is not a recast, because tax offices have become aware that they exist. You're still allowed to sell your doll, though, OR that LV bag.

Companies register trademark to prevent competition from using that name for their own brand, or to protect your brand against bootlegging. (for instance, it will be hard to produce a new car under the name "mercedes"). But this law does not include customers, only businesses, tiny home-based ventures included.

That's a typical case of not knowing the ins and outs about trademark registration. AND not knowing how expensive it is.
The main problem is that a world-wide registration system doesn't exist. You could have registered your brand within your own country, but that won't protect you from someone across the border using it, if you haven't registered there as well. So, to protect your brand worldwide, you have to register in every country (or union) on earth, according to each country's individual law. And because no country's law is the same, this isn't something you can do on your own. You'll need a specialized lawyer. And that's what makes it expensive.

The fees for trademark protection are also pretty steep. Looking at my own country, if I also want a registration guarantee, I'll need to pay €685 per trademark. This will keep my trademark name registered for 10 years. But this is only for the union my country is a part of. Then comes registering in the EU. Then in all the other countries that exist. And this is just the registration fee, your lawyer will also want to get money.

This is why most small businesses, especially not start-ups, do not have their trademarks protected, and certainly not world-wide. The costs are too high. And in the case of China: If someone registered your brand name before you did - because you live in and work in Sweden, so why on earth would you think that someone on the other side of the world would use that exact same name in the exact same business- your luck just ran out.

tl;dr This isn't the companies' fault, but a case of Luo knowingly misusing trademark law and benefiting from a lack of a world wide registration system.

 

Thank you so much for making this clear Its very depressing to think that one person (Luo) had so much support and success financially to be capable of filing for trademarks in many different countries while the Legit companies and artists didn't have as much financial support to do so before he did.

 

Thank you for bringing up this link again. Even if it's been posted already a few pages back and in the Mods' news post, it is important information. I can only encourage everybody to read the news post because it summarizes all the important information and will prevent this discussion from becoming redundant.

 

i've created a google docs version of the list of contacted companies, so now it should be more accessible to people not on tumblr:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11vXEWnGC14UKqFlVF7CYQPRPU8mQOybTRD3UoiB3H74/edit?usp=sharing

also, does anyone know if alice's collections has been contacted and if she's made a statement?

 

Wait a sec...even Marina Bychkova?
That is her NAME. Hé is trying to patent her real name!

 

Yeah. Her name. He can't even spell some of the names right.

 

If a company loses their trademark, what can they do to move on? Change their name and try to continue business as usual? (I'm not losing hope, I'm just trying to make sense of this whole thing since I honestly don't know the legal aspects of situations like this.)

 

I just don't understand how this can happen