Company's taking costume ideas?

There is no magic percentage at which copyright goes away. If I rewrite 20 pages of a 100 page book, it still violates copyright to copy it and pass it off as my own even though it's "20% different". Fair use covers the copying of very small amounts under specific circumstances, but other than that any copying of any part is illegal.

As to whither or not the copyright law could be enforced in a given situation, that is another matter entirely, and something that I'm not really qualified to give advice on.

As to if I find these copies morally reprehensible, quite frankly I don't. With the exception of the Dollmore one, the outfits just aren't close enough for me to think that they are copies. They seem more just outfits pulling from the same Victorian/Gothic Lolita style book.

 

It doesn't really bother me. Maybe because I can envision myself purchasing multiple similar outfits if the theme is something I love. I have done this before. Though I can see why people would be upset.

 

first of all, i'm sorry if its in the wrong section or if this has already been discussed


so i was browsing trough angell-studio's outfit and found this one http://angell-studio.com/en/?product-888.html that is very nice. i scrolled down a few pics and i noticed the 7th pic looks A LOT like this one http://static3.animepaper.net/upload/thumbs/scans/Kuroshitsuji/%5Blarge%5D%5BAnimePaper%5Dscans_Kuroshitsuji_blerica(0.69)__THISRES__219851.jpg

lower on the page, you see a second guy, dressed in black holding a pocket watch.....


i'm not accusing angell-studio of anything but am i the only one who think this looks like kuroshitsuji? or am i just crazy? xD

edit: i meant the picture, not the outfit.
of course kuroshitsuji didnt create this kind of clothing!
there is an harajuku style called kodona, wich is pretty much the equivalent of boy lolita
both taken from the clothing kids wore back in i-dont-know-wich-century

 

I thought the same thing when I was perusing Angell-Studio and saw that one. But who knows.
-Sheleeta

 

There seams to be a lot of Kuroshitsuji inspired outfits going around right now. Soda even has a version of Ciel's crossdressing outfit! Dollmore does as well. I think more companies should delve more into anime inspired outfits.

 

This has actualy been brought up in the Debate sub-forum Here: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?345280-Company-s-taking-costume-ideas

I don't know if your talking about the photo itself or the clothes, but Myself (and at lest one other member) pointed out that the pose and composition is definatly inspired by Kuroshitsuji, but the outfit is too different (though from the same time era) to be a copy. I should tell you I haven't read through it lately, but we did seem to be a minority at the time.

Also, don't let a copied pose full your eyes, the only thing that is the same in it is the fact that it has half pants, a coat, bustle and a hat... none of these things are actually the same though, even if they are both ornate.

 

I believe it was Angell-Studio that I also noticed some outfits that were really similar to Vampire Knight school uniforms-
I think they've been drawing inspiration from gothic styled manga in general.

 

Its only natural kuroshitsuji would be an inspiration. The outfits are beautiful and creative, its a bjd dream

 

Inspired by, certainly. But the outfit itself? No. It's just another Victorian-era dandy-suit.

 

The outfit itself is actually heavily based on an outfit of Ciel Phantomhive. Of course there are changes to the design slightly but it is one of the more recognised outfits from the manga version.

Mix Red, Mix Blue and Mix Black are all heavily infuenced/based on Kuroshitsuji' Sebastian and Ciel. The layout, design and even the 'story' is very based on the story. Same as the 'My Fair Lady' outfit from Dollmore is based on Ciel' cross-dressing outfit. But they are not presented as the characters because they're not. Just merely based on the actual concept.

This isn't the first time that Angel Studio drew inspiration from manga/anime. Lucifer and Gabriel was very influenced by Angel Sanctuary at the beginning too, the promotion pictures was literally created like two of the most famous pictures from the AS artbooks. But those have since been changed. Personally I think it is rather cool, as I really like Angel Studio, I really like the art of the original artists and I really like the period of clothing. Its nice and they wouldn't be the first company to draw inspiration. Besides I'm not sure about the creator for Kuro but I know the author for Angel Sanctuary Yuki Kaori and many other manga artists own BJDs too so inspiration is drawn across boards.

 

A little bit about items unprotected by copyright, including clothing:
http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/unprotected.htmlhttp://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/unprotected.html

This I think is something all photographer's should read - do you have the right to take a photo of something? Not always!
http://www.wipo.int/sme/en/documents/ip_photography.htm

 

Here's a video talking about copying in the fashion industry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2FOrx41N0

Personally I see most of those pics as being similar due to both copying off of the same period of history. When you look at the actual outfits they are different for the most part, and they only look similar because someone's taken inspiration from Kuroshitsuji for the posing.

 

THIS

Also, when I look at the comparison pics in the OP, I see similarities, but not exact copies. Moreover none of the ideas in the drawings is so completely novel that it would be easy or fair to make an argument that the clothing designer "ripped off" the idea from the manga. Besides that, making a drawing & making a garment are two completely different things!

If a designer made a dress or garment that was obviously a copy of something worn by a figure in a famous classical painting, that designer would not be expected to pay royalties to that artist's trust or anything; that's just not how these things work.

If it bothers you that a doll clothing manufacturer is making clothes that are "too similar" to something else you recognise, then don't buy that company's clothes. There really is no other reasonable course of action to take.

 

starzzz

I agree. On the whole, I have no issue with companies creating outfits that strongly resemble costumes seen in manga. When other doll companies start making knock-off versions of other doll comapanies' limited outfits though, I start feeling much more uncomfortable.

For example (unless someone can give me context that proves the situation is different than it looks):

Here is Dollmore 2009: Lisa Rubik, Caspian Sea & Ha-Yarn Cho, Caspian Sea

and here is Cheerydoll 2010: Goddess Story in its Black version & White version

On the one hand, I think if someone loved the design of these clothes, Cheerydoll has presented an opportunity for them to acquire a costume that they like-- I can't help seeing this as a positive thing; as I'm sure many others here know, missing a limited something-or-other that captured one's imagination can be saddening, and many people buy and sell limited outfits on the Marketplace.

At the same time, however, out of respect for Dollmore and the people who bought their limited fullsets, I (and this is only my personal sentiment) don't know if I could feel right if I purchased something so similar.

 

I honestly don't see how the outfits are copies but the photo of the skull is obviously a pastiche of the comic book pose. Perhaps it was intended right from the start or perhaps they developed a costume based on Victorian clothing and then someone in their office said, "you know what, this reminds me of a comic character's outfit, let's pose the doll the same when we do the photoshoot". We don't know which way round it happened and never will. I just don't know what here is copyrightable anyway as the anime/manga characters clothes are simply not that original to begin with.

That's not knocking either the comic book artists or the doll costume makers, they are all just creatively drinking from the same fountain, reworking the same inspirations to make new twists. Absolutely nothing about any of the costumes shown in the illustrations is original and non of the doll costumes are direct copies, so no case to answer really.

 

I think one thing to keep in mind is the brain seeks patterns and similarities, and it's a well known effect in the study of intelligence that it will quite happily see them where there are none. I've noticed that this effect is strongest with elements that we don't experience so often.

As an example, I don't often see ladies walking around in victorian period dress, so if I saw two men in green victorian jackets my mind is more likely to register them as being overly similar. If I actually lived in the victorian period however, I would be used to seeing such clothing, and my mind would be less likely to register them as similar due to the differences between the jackets.

 

Well, yes. I can definitely see similarities in the comparisons on the first page, but I don't think any of the outfits is so close to its respective Manga "source" that it can really be called "copying" or whatever.

Even in the first image, the overall style is similar, sure, but the doll's hat is smaller & has a different brim treatment & decorations that the drawing. The bustle is completely different, &... well, I could go on. The OP acknowledges they've been "alter[ed] a little", but honestly I don't see enough similarities to support the statement that the company is "taking costume ideas".

 

I didn't want to make a new topic when it deals with a similar situation, and that's why I'm sort of bumping up an older topic... but...

What about people who replicate brand name clothing? Like copying Moi Meme Moite or Sexy Dynamite London clothing and making it doll sized, then selling it. Where do you stand on the morality/ethics of this? Because the company doesn't make doll clothing and it wouldn't be replicating it exactly only making something similar to it, is this a condonable practice?

 

This is also tricky one, especially if you're talking brand and logo prints. When, for example, you are just talking about something "In the style of" - without any sign of brand and / or logo included then I don't see this as an issue. However, when you are talking about brand names and / or logos being included this becomes a bit tricky. In the end, however, by adding copies of brands and logos to doll-wear - (eg. you see a lot of "Calvin Klein" items out there) there are no company profits being effected as far as these brands are concerned as its not as though these brands have their own doll-sized lines that are being copied and re-sold. However, as far as the legalities are concerned, it is effectively illegal to copy brands and logos with the intention of making profit.

 

The point it's to really prove it, if 2 different man discover the fire at the same time in different countries, could you say one has stolen the other?, unless there is a perfect match about it, it could be just coincidences given the fact than than the culture and designs are quite similar, don't misunderstand me, I'm not defending anyone, just saying what I humbly think about the subject...