Cracking on other people's dolls where do you stand?

For the sake of debate -- that's true, people are accepting responsibility when they share on the net. But doesn't that responsibility fall on both sides? By saying 'it's your fault, you posted the picture' doesn't that negate the need for any responsibility from anyone else? Just as someone chooses to share, others choose what they type in response to that. While this doesn't seem to be a popular opinion on this thread, I don't think people should be let off the hook that easily for their behavior. I think that's what bugs me -- people avoiding responsibility for the kinds of things they put out there. It's easier to blame the person with the poorly done faceup that's getting ripped on or whatever than stop to think about the consequences of one's posts.

 

I believe it's one thing to give some constructive criticism about a doll, which in the end means you're trying to help, and a very different one to just go on rambling about how horrid that wig is, or how the clothes won't fit the doll.

I usually keep my opinions to myself, because they may hurt someone who has spent a lot of time over a doll, trying to get the perfect image they want for THEIR doll. What may look silly or badly done to me, looks wonderful to the owner. I always keep in mind the fact that people create their character as they want it.

I admit, though, that I had a brief period of considering sharing my opinions in a bad way ^^;;; But I would have done it in a childish petty revenge because I got many negative and hurtful criticism for my work on Xionesse's faceup (the one in my avatar). I ended up deciding that innocent people shouldn't pay for my own frustrations, so I still swallow my opinions if I have no constructive criticsm to give.

Everything is a matter of tastes, my friends. We all like different things

 

I'd be lying if I said I'd never, ever thought, "Jeez, that doll is ugly. It's faceup looks like crayon." or the like. I'm a human with strong opinions, like we all are. You are all too. Unless you're particularly saintly, you've also felt strongly about a doll's appearance. It's just how we are. I try to refrain from saying anything, though, because I'm not so good at constructive critique. I'm way harder on my doll than any Anonymous could ever be, and if I post a picture anywhere public, it is up for ridicule, that' sjust how the internet is. I've been to "that" forum, but admittedly I am way too sensitive to handle being there much, so I avoid it. Anyone like myself should just follow suit and do the same. If it's going to bother you, avoid harsher sites and stay here in the land of fluffiness and gold stars for all.

 

Well said, Taco. I agree-- the blame lies on both sides. Yes, you have some risk by putting pictures out there. But that doesn't mean the person who turned it into public mockery isn't being a jerk.

The fact that owners took the risk of sharing photos of their dolls with like-minded folks on the internet doesn't mean that others should get off the hook for being mean. Similarly, if I leave my car unlocked, I risk having my car stereo stolen (and even having a car stereo means I risk having it stolen, locked doors or not!), but just because I took a risk doesn't mean the thief is off the hook for what s/he did.

As for people claiming that it's a free country (whatever country "it" is), so what? No one said that mockery was illegal, merely that it wasn't polite. In a free country, you have the right to call me nasty names, and I have the right to think you're an ill-mannered jerk.

Personally, I would feel the same way about a doll failblog as I would about publicly mocking what someone's wearing in a Facebook picture: it's not particularly nice, and while it may be hilarious to you and your friends, there's no need to do it in public, to draw attention to all its faults, get people to view it negatively where they might not have noticed the problems with it, and draw a crowd of mockers-- all where the owner may end up seeing it, not necessarily because they went looking but perhaps because some well-meaning friend told them what was going on behind their back. Which could genuinely hurt people's feelings, so, yeah, I think it's a bad idea. Careless and maybe a little callous. Funny stuff is funny to you, but it stops being just a joke when it hits a sensitive spot for someone else. Personally, I'd keep it to email/PMs/entries locked to only trusted people, if you want to have your fun but not hurt anyone's feelings about something they might have worked hard on and poured their heart into.

 

Oh, and to add, if your doll (or mine) ended up getting bashed somewhere, it'd be a good thing to take that as good, harsh critique. It might hurt your feelings temporarily, but you'll probably be thankful in the long run.

 

I do agree. That's the best response to have. On the other hand, it doesn't change the fact that said critique was irresponsibly and meanly delivered, and that sometimes stuff just stings. The mocker has no way of knowing what level of personal stuff this doll might represent to you, or how easy it will be for you to get the mental image of their criticisms out of your mind every time you look at your doll. Some people are better at that stuff than others, and people who end up on failblogs didn't opt in to critique. They risked it, but they didn't choose it.

 

As a person who's participated in snark sites, I can say that a lot of people (wankers? lol) aren't exactly let off the hook easily. I've been plenty harrassed back.

I also know that the admins of such sites DO remove content which is actually potentially damaging. But ultimately, there's only so much that can be done. In the US anyway, you have the right to Free Speech, but you don't have the right to Not Be Offended. (In other countries, though, I should mention, have laws against "inciting hate" which could spark a whole 'nother debate.)

Unless you mean that persons should be punished for their behavior in other places...for example, if I'm known to be a member of wank comms, should I be banned from joining DOA. As an individual I obviously disagree because I know that I would never be anything less than polite here, because I am genuinely interested in the hobby and don't take snark seriously enough to even bother remembering it. As for others....?

 

Me and my doll friends take the pee out of each others dolls and lame efforts, but thats because we are friends and we can take it and laugh about it. I can see some people will take offense to snarky comments on forums because they dont know that person and what tone of voice is being used etc. I have read some snark about my dolls which was funny, its just like gossip, I understand that but I find it a waste of time to sit and read or write it on a regular basis.
Me and my friends might laugh about other peoples dolls, but thats looking at them on the internet at random pictures, I dont feel the need to post about it to other people, I dont need people I dont know to laugh at something humourous I have come up with about someones dolls to make me feel clever.
Id kind of like it if I met doll people who I got on with at a meet who felt relaxed enough to take the pee out of something about my doll, I dont like being precious about hobbies. But it doesnt give anyone permission to be rude to your face or get personal. I have had people being really personal on forums about me just from seeing me at a meet, just making stuff up and laughing about some very sensitive things, stupid playground antics. Its a cheap thing to do to someone. Stick to the dolls!
I do enjoy having messages with members who have got a good sense of humour and can laugh at their own dolls and mine, if youre genuinely friendly then it can be quite constructive criticism with lols.
Also, theyre dolls for christsake. Its not like theyre laughing at a disabled child or something!

 

I think the word "right" is tossed around much too lightly these days. Is it rude to express a negative opinion about someone else's doll? Well, that depends on how it's done. But even if it is done in a snarky manner, the person has the right to have that opinion and to express it. Even with naughty words. Even to someone's face. Even behind their back. Even with mockery. That right is protected in our Constitution for a reason -- some of our best government philosophy was born out of snarking the opposing team during the Revolution! (See? Every cloud does have a silver lining.)

I can't imagine a world in which no one was ever allowed to turn a mocking, critical eye toward anything else. There would be no comedy news programs like the Daily Show. There would be no interesting commentary on CNN articles to read. There would be no lively, hilarious discussions about whether or not a movie was good or bad as we walked home from the theater. What little critique there was to help skills improve in school, hobbies, and sports would be dry, boring, and stilted, because heaven forbid someone attempt to have a little a humor about it -- the subject might be offended.

Separate snark sites exist because some people don't want to see snark on the existing forums they use. That is fair enough! The snarkers are doing their part to keep the peace. Those who don't like snark can do theirs by not seeking out what they know will upset them. People who like snark for the most part try to keep it out of the ivory tower, so don't go invading their dungeon and then complain about the rats!

 

I understand people can, and will, get hurt, but you can often avoid seeing the harsh critique by avoiding forums that offer up much of that harsh critique. The world is sadly a mean place and one has to develop a thick skin to survive it.

 

I'm not talking about what the person whose dolls were targeted should do. I'm talking about what the people who make fun of it should do. Regardless of whether the target responds with a thick skin or a thin one, that doesn't mean it's okay to do things that you know may be hurtful. The world is a mean place because people do things like that. It adds to the meanness.

As for avoiding it: What about people who find out their dolls were on those sites because a well-meaning person let them know, thinking they wouldn't want to be talked about behind their back? Even if they don't go look at it, they'll know. What if they're searching for pictures of some doll thing on Google Images and they find their doll's picture with a URL back to a snark site? People can and do stumble across these things by accident. And when one person feels "I don't want to know", another person may feel "I would have been fine with it if you'd just told me instead of doing it behind my back". Accidents happen with well-meaning people spreading the word around, if it's not locked down to just a small group of people you know won't talk.

Yes, people can and do get hurt. Does that mean we should continue the behaviours that hurt them? Every time we do, the world is an even meaner place. Is that what we want?

 

One thing I do find kind of odd is when the 'snarkies' say they would never say anything mean to a doll owners face and they would be perfectly civil in person. To me that seems a little two-faced, just because you would be nice to a persons face doesn't mean the person who you snarked on would suddenly forget all the mean things you said on the internet.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. You don't think people should be let off the hook in what way? Just because someone says or does something you don't personally agree with doesn't make them wrong. You seem to be implying that people are somehow obligated to be supportive. That's simply not the case.

 

There's been a lot of arguing that if unhappiness results, the blame should fall on the person who chose to put their doll's picture on the internet. I think Taco is saying the blame also falls on the person who chose to type something nasty about them. That they also had a share in the creation of unhappiness.

 

So someone said something mean about someone's doll on the internet? Boohoo.

With posting anything on the internet, there comes the risk that people who do not know you or care about you, or are not invested in your emotional well being are going to come across it and make fun of it. It's simply the way the world works. If you are so fragile that you are unable to handle the thought of some random stranger saying something about your doll, you would be best to just not post it on the internet.

I don't really care what random people on the internet think about my dolls. I like them. I bought them for me. The only time I would potentially be hurt by someone saying something mean about them would be if it was coming from a friend, and the issue there wouldn't be there that they said something mean about my doll, but that they didn't feel like they could trust me enough to be honest with me and tell me outright what they thought. I don't care if my friends don't like my dolls, but I do care that they would feel the need to say things behind my back and not to me.

 

Bliss - Since I'm not one of the ones making fun of a doll, I'm not sure what they should do. I can only offer the opinion of someone who's a lot more likely to be the target rather than the snarker. If I found something of mine being ridiculed, would I be hurt? Sure, I'm too sensitive. But would I roll over and quit the hobby I love so much because I found out I wasn't hot stuff? No. I can only offer words that try to encourage the ridiculed not to give up because of one big, hurtful setback.

 

Ahh. Your comment could have been read either that way, or as if it were blaming the person who posted a picture of their dolls for having their dolls get mocked. Which some people on this thread have been doing, so I guess I misread it as that.

Perhaps comforting advice about how to react would have made more sense to me in a context when there were actually people who needed said comfort? idk. Since the discussion is so theoretical, I misconstrued it as a shifting of where we address the root cause.