Do you consider Dollfie Dream to be a BJD?

I think if there is a ball-joint on the parts, it's a BJD regardless. It doesn't have to be resin to be a BJD. PVC is just as fine. It doesn't have to be realistic to be a BJD. We know that many companies are far from that when it comes to some molds. It doesn't have to be strung to be a BJD. The skeleton acts the same way as the elastic. Even though they don't have the same assembly system and material, they still have the main component that makes them a BJD, which is the ball joints themselves.

 

I find the concept of dividing these dolls into "ABJD" and "non ABJD" kinda amusing. I remember when Volks, CP and Luts were just about all there was out there. Dolls had to be ordered thru a buying service, took months to arrive from overseas and OMGOMG we finally got A store in Florida that stocked Volks DD1!!!

Back then my idea of ABJD was DD, Lishe and the 4 sisters. Many people early in the hobby bought the DD1 body and placed resin heads on them either because they liked the mature body, or because the body was cheaper. Is a Resin head on a DD1 a "ABJD"? At what point can we really say that the DD doesn't meet the asthetic standards of an ABJD? Do the Arthos? What about some of Notdoll's sculpts? As the hobby expands and grows, so do our ideas and definitions.

 

Hmm. . . I think if it's got ball joints then it's a ball jointed doll. Not to sound like Captain Obvious or anything, but I think that's all that qualifies a doll to be a BJD. If it's the type of BJD that is DoA style or is it a BJD in general?

There are criteria for the ones on the board because it's a broad range of doll. If you're asking if it's the type of BJD that DoA usually mandates, then no probably not in my mind. However it is a type of BJD.

 

I don't think that's a company pic, but don't worry, DD2 hands and feet pop off for easy changing so I'm sure that poor dolly got her hands fixed eventually.



To me (and i have both a DD2 and 60cm Obitsu-- love them both, they are fantastic posers) they aren't really technically (to me anyway) ball jointed dolls. In my mind a ball joint would hold the doll together with the tension of the elastic... remove the string or elastic and you're left with a pile of dolly bits on the table. DD2 is a ball and socket like your own skeleton, but with screws connecting the joints, rather than ligaments.

i think they fit the category and the 'spirit' of asian bjd though, the asian aesthetic and customization factors at least, and i have no argument against them being grandfathered in here on DoA.

 

Woot! I'll take the skelly and put a less "anime" looking head on it!

For a hobby that claims to be a community, there sure is a lot of fence building between groups. She looks a darn sight MORE ball jointed than my Iplehouse EID, who hasn't a ball joint in his body unless you count his hip joint.

Personally, I find them rather unattractive BUT I don't think it makes them any less of a doll or any less important to those who love them.

 

I have a resin head on one of my 60cm obitsu bodies, and it works great (same with the DD/resin hybrids I've seen).

I don't think people are really building fences--whether or not someone considers them to be the same type of doll as an abjd, doesn't mean they are actually being critical of them. There are lots of fantastic dolls that don't fit the criteria of an abjd, but it doesn't keep them from being awesome in their own right (though, I do lump the 60cm obitsus and DDs in the same category with abjds, but I understand why some people don't).

 

If you were to define it by how the joints work... they are ball joints, especially in the wrists, ankles, hips and shoulders. The knees and elbows are more of a disk joint. When soft doll or teddy bear makers are asked about joints (because it seems to be an important question at least in teddy bear world), they are not shy about stating ball jointed if that's the joint they used. It doesn't matter the material of the bear itself... be it mohair, wood or synthetic. If it's a plastic disk joint bear, it's a plastic disk joint bear. The type of joints don't define what the actual animal/doll is made out of. "All hard board disks use mohair..." That's not true. They are separate details. "Mohair bear with hard disk neck, button joint arms and plastic joint legs." That's perfectly acceptable in teddy world... although why you were want to mix hard board with plastic since they are the same kind of joint just different materials is beyond me.

The distinction between materials used on the dolls seems to be focused here on DoA. Other places allow other materials to be discussed such as vinyl or porcelain. But here it's "We only discuss resin BJDs." But Volks and Obitsu (MSD SD) are grandfathered in. Obitsu used to make the Volks bodies, that's why their SDs are allowed.

 

I think you can swap them hands. They're bjds more easily swappable with parts

and I find DDs and Obitsu in the same league when it comes to joints...its all about the material here I suppose

 

As the mommy to an Obitsu 60, an army of 1/6ers, and strung resin ABJs I introduce mine as a cousin to the ABJ who is closer to the smaller Dollfies. IMO a ball joint doll is strung, so old compsition dolls count in that aspect.

 

^This. As others have said... It has ball-shaped joints, therefore it IS a "ball-jointed doll". That part is pretty cut-and-dry, I think.

That being said... this thread has brought up another issue... What is and is not considered on-topic at DoA does not define what makes a doll a BJD. This is a common misconception that bothers me.

I understand the desire to limit discussion to specific types of dolls, and I do support DoA's decision choose which dolls are available for discussion. (The forum is already so big, it's necessary just to maintain order! ) However, I'm finding more and more often that people are basing their general opinions of a doll on the sculpt's on- or off-topic status. I've been to a meetup where someone mentioned they were afraid to bring an off-topic-for-DoA Goodreau Doll to the meet. Just because a doll doesn't fit the criteria to be discussed here, that doesn't make it "not a BJD", or somehow less worthy of collecting and displaying said doll in venues outside of DoA.

Likewise, the argument that DDs wouldn't be on-topic if they weren't grandfathered in has nothing to do with the discussion of whether they are a BJD. There are many dolls that are technically Ball-Jointed Dolls that are off-topic here due to aesthetic reasons, but that makes them no less "ball-jointed".

And FWIW, my DDII girl has more spherical "ball"-shaped joints than many of my newer-style double-jointed resin dolls that are strung with elastic, lol! I don't see how the stringing mechanism or casting material defines whether a doll is a "BJD". It just defines whether a doll would be available for discussion on this forum.

 

What is considered BJD? I have an antique doll who is made with a china head, and composition body, with wood ball joints, and she is strung. IMO, she is a BJD.
My IH Luo, has rounded joints, but not actually balls, as do most resin BJD's, so why are they considered BJD? I think they would be best defined as machinacally engineered dolls.

 

Hi! I think these maybe different but I still consider them 2 bjd dolls. They very interestinng 2 look at. I like the fact that these dolls r somehow easier then bjd dolls. Suppossedly u don't have 2 restring the doll like bjd doll.isn't nice.

 

DDI was a BJD cause had ball joints and elastic strings but DDII is not. Though I absolutly love Dollfie Dreams

@Judi from FL: Resin bjd's are one of the evolutions of antique bjd's, that's it

But, we were here for asian resin ball jointed dolls in the first place, then the forum admins allowed resin bjd's from another countries that had asian aesthetics and Dollfie Dreams and also Obitsu dolls were grandfathered for the forum, but that doesnt mean that DD and Obitsus are real bjd's.

 

They're sort of easier and sort of the same difficulty. Changing heads and parts is easy, but if something breaks with the internal skeleton then it is very difficult to repair it and you can't buy another one.

 

They definitely have ball joints, so in a purely technical sense, they're BJDs.

Though this thread got me thinking about how DDs kind of straddle the line between dolls and figures. People who find most dolls terrifying and collect figures instead will often at least think DDs are cute, and people who love dolls but don't really care for figures will like DDs too. They're welcome on sites where resin BJDs aren't really appreciated (i.e. dannychoo.com, where the OP's photo came from), and on sites where figures aren't on topic (like here). I find that rather interesting.

And that convinces me that there's room in the market for anime dolls besides just DDs and Azone/Obitsu too, though as far as I know nobody else is making them. ¬.¬

 

I don't think they ought to be allowed here because there are SOOOO many dolls rejected for silly little things, while these dolls are allowed, despite not even being STRUNG, which is one of the more basic things that dolls on these forums are supposed to be.

I REALLY love Dollfie Dreams, but forum-wise, they seem to have been grandfathered in, rather than actually judged as on-topic.

They don't appear to be fully ball-jointed, either. The knees and neck are some other type of joint.

 

Well yes, they were grandfathered, it says so on the on-topic dolls page. It's because the original DDI body was strung, and they were included before the list of criteria got more complex...and the mods decided to include the DDII body when that innovation came along.

I started a forum specifically for vinyl BJDs (link in my sig) & there is regular discussion on Danny Choo's sites and the Dollfie Dream Flickr group. The interest in DD is growing a bit more now, but for a lot of people, their only place for information on DD is DoA and if DoA suddenly declared DD off-topic I think there would be a lot of people left wondering where to go with questions about their dolls.

I agree My brother isn't interested in my resin dolls that much, but my Dollfie Dream is so much like his Final Fantasy figures (in sculpt at least) that he has no problem with her. He collects male figures mostly though, so if Volks finally do make a boy DD, I would definitely get one for my brother.

 

They grandfather in other dolls, though too (there's a list of them under 'On-Topic Sculpts'). If a doll was allowed on here at one time, then they aren't going to suddenly change that. That seems to be how the forum works, and I don't see how it's an issue, really. I'm sure it would be both aggravating for the mods and owners to suddenly have to declare dolls that have been allowed for years OT.

 

Yes... back in the beginning there just weren't that many BJDs out there, so the list of criteria didn't really need to be as specific. Like Jescissa stated, the DD1s were included at the time because they were strung and structurally similar to BJDs despite being made out of vinyl. When the DD2 body came out, it was included because the DD1 had been... and the 60cm Obitsus were similar to the DD2, so they were included as well. At first, there wasn't really much need for as many "on-topic" criteria, because there just weren't as many doll companies out there or as many options available.

But later, as more and more variations on BJDs were released, DoA had to implement more criteria to maintain a consistent focus... but by that point DD1, DD2, and 60cm Obitsu dolls (amongst others) had been a part of the forum for so long, the decision was made to continue to allow those specific types of dolls.

From the "On-Topic Dolls" thread in the Rules section: