Do you feel that you should pretend to love dolls that you don’t?

Would you be willing to provide a Youtube video of proof of doing this in public to a complete stranger? I don't live anywhere near where you do, therefore I can't witness this in person, so Youtube will have to do.

 

I've noticed this too. There are some threads in the critique forum that have really good, honest (and even blunt, sometimes) critique (and I was lucky enough to get a good bit of that when I posted my admittedly horrible first faceup months ago), but there are a lot of threads where there's obviously a LOT to improve on but all the replies are "Oh, it's perfect! So cute!!!" For my own things I offer up for critique, those responses are flattering and really nice, but not especially helpful - I can see that there's something not right and that it can get better, but may need someone else's perspective to help me correct it, which is why I'm posting it there and not in the gallery.

I do think critique should stay in critique, and not in the general galleries (unless requested) but a new doll from a company is something entirely different. It needs to be done tactfully and not whining about not getting what you expected (Soom, anyone?) but I see no problem with saying things like "Wow, Dollzone, the outfit on that doll is really gorgeous, and I'm glad to see you're coming out with new sculpts, but I really prefer how your older dolls looked more mature and didn't have receding chins. I may buy the outfit but won't be buying the doll, though she is cute!"

I don't want this place to go all snarky and mean, but I do think there needs to be some serious skin-thickening around here especially in the critique section. Of course it stings a little if someone doesn't like something you've done (or a doll company or sculpt you like), but that new perspective is a GOOD thing to see, even if you don't agree with it.

I've had designs I've done and liked called "F-ing vomit on the page! Vomit!!!! WTH are you doing!" often enough to not be pained if someone doesn't like how I've painted my doll. Maybe the eyebrows really DO need to be closer to the nose and a darker color, and I just wasn't seeing it. I'd rather hear an honest "I don't like it, and here's why..." than a fake "so cute!" any day.

 

s0yuz, having met Kim face to face? She's telling the truth. She's also awesome fun to talk with because of it. It's damnably refreshing.

 

Of what exactly? Me randomly walking up to someone and insulting them? I don't think any of my posts have said that I encourage that behaviour and and the only real world equivalent I can think of right now is asking a total stranger who their favourite band is and then going "They're overrated and their last album sucked."

Which is essentially what expressing a more negative opinion in a discussion thread would be, as this topic is not about attacking specific individuals in a gallery thread about their specific doll, which is something I don't do and generally don't support.

And if someone ASKS me my opinion, they really have no right to get offended if I say something they do not agree with.

 

Proof?

Besides, I was never originally addressing her in my post. She decided that it did. I am distressed over the ignorance of what Freedom of Speech legally means, and how people distort it for their own ends when Freedom of Speech is not actually a carte blance license.

Kim, I just want to know that you are the sort of person who would not tell her boss (assuming you don't know them well) that they look like sh*t and expect to walk away unscathed from it? That's good enough for me. My issue is with people who think they can act like that at all times to anyone.

For the record, I bet I can do blunt better than you can in real life. I've been told I give the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket a run for his money.

 

s0yuz: If you had waded through this thread, you would have read several times that with giving critism I don't mean being a dick, but to make polite remarks in general discussion (not the gallery-threads) so that we can have a healthy debate. Like what we're doing here. I'd just like to see the possibility of doing the same thing when a new doll is released. And right now I don't think that option is there, because people respond too sensitive to, peaceful and polite, remarks.

 

Proof of... meeting her at a meetup? It's probably mentioned in a thread somewhere.

Also, you seem to be laboring under the misconception that 'saying nothing online you wouldn't say to someone's face' automatically means 'letting every thought and opinion that passes through your neurons come spilling out of your mouth without any sort of filter'. They aren't the same thing. Some people simply use the same filter online and off.

 

That happens fairly frequently, though--heck, I've commented that way before. As long as people aren't jerks about it, I don't think that's so much of a problem. You usually get a group of excited people, and then you get some that would prefer some alterations. New doll release threads are less personal than a lot of other threads--it's not like there's a lot of owners of that doll running around already, it's a doll that nobody has direct experience with, and with new dolls people can often be a little more cautious anyway before buying. It's really not unusual to see a mix of opinions given.

 

If my boss asked me what I thought of her appearance, and she looks terrible, I would tell her. What really is the point of asking what someone thinks if you don't actually want to hear what they think?

I am not an advocate for trolling the galleries and nowhere have I said I have, and that is what randomly walking up to someone and insulting them would be. A general discussion thread about a particular doll sculpt or company is not the same thing, and I do think we should not be attacked for saying a doll is ugly or poorly designed, and as far as I know, that's not actually against the rules of the board. Not the attacking, the saying a doll is ugly bit.

Unsolicited negativity towards a specific person in a thread they have started in the gallery is a douche-y move. I don't do it.

 

Isenn, though your question wasn't directed to me, it's an interesting one, so I hope you don't mind if I answer.

If I own one, I may answer, positive or negative as is my opinion on the body.

To be honest, I would be less likely to answer over any fears of offending someone than I would over concern that I might not be able to answer questions as fully as I might like. I am not an expert on stringing or methods of changing how well a doll moves or poses, and I don't put my dolls into complex standing poses, so I couldn't easily answer those questions, which are factors that a lot of people would put in to the decision about whether or not to buy a specific body that go beyond aesthetics.

As to the aesthetics, I'd still rather own the body before commenting in detail. If it's a newly released item or that's not possible, I will generally -try- to avoid negatives unless I can pin them down beyond a nebulous sense of 'hmm, don't like it for some reason'. How something looks in person and in marketing photos is often different enough that I don't think it's fair to give a final judgment, even personally, on something I can't distinctly pin down to 'this specific element looks wrong to my eye, and this is why'.

 

I'm not Taco, but that is a good question. I think a good example of that was another "why are Bobobies so cheap?" thread that came up a day or two ago - it was answered, very honestly, by people who either own or have owned or often handled a Bobobie. There was no "They're cheap because they're awful, you should get a REAL doll" either spoken or implied, and there was also no "OMG they're teh best evar!" either - just honest replies along the lines of "I have one, they're great for the price IMO, but they have some limitations like..."

I won't answer a question like that unless I have enough knowledge to answer it - meaning I either own the body in question or know it well (I answer Bobobie questions sometimes because I've completely re-strung, sueded, wired, played with, enhanced the faceup of, had living with me for a month, etc - my cousin's Bobobie boy, I know his quirks better than some of my own dolls). If I do have the body being asked about I answer it honestly, like questions about the Dollzone double-jointed body I'll answer with "poses extremely well, but not as well as my Minifee, and the joints do have the squared-off look when they are bent all the way and the double-jointed stands well but not quite as solidly as my single-jointed Dollzones". Just honest facts. I might also give opinions like "the sculpting is nice but not as pretty as a Minifee IMO" or something like that.

I think if honest opinions can't be given, then the value of DOA as a resource is seriously diminished. Someone debating whether to get a Bobobie or not because they love the face but are worried by the price is looking for honest opinions, positive AND negative - from people who are familiar with the dolls, though - not from people who have only seen photos or saw one for a few minutes at a meetup.

 

It depends on if I actually own the doll or not. If I do, I would respond with "You know, I really love how the extra thigh joint helps mobility. But I'm not too fond of the hands." If I don't own the doll, I would respond with "I've heard trying to keep the feet flat is a real pain! Is this true?" In either case, I would answer honestly. I'd never sugarcoat my answer just to appease somebody's feelings. If I give some kind of OMG SOOO KAWAII GO FOR IT comment and that person buys a doll and hates it, in a way it's my fault.

This is exactly how I want to be treated as well. I'm asking advice about a purchase that could be hundreds or thousands of dollars. I want honest, blunt responses.

 

It should be but, it actually isn't because of the oversensitive people who take it as a personal insult if you don't happen to like their doll (or the way they dress it or the style of face-up or whatever).

I have some dolls (not among my BJD's) tht I love dearly but wouldn't describe as pretty, beautiful or atractive. At least one of them that I'd describe as downright ugly. I still like/love them as part of my doll family, but I'm not claiming they're visually attractive and I certainly wouldn't expect someone to not say what they thought of the dolls just because I happen to like them.

A lot of them, yes.

And, yes, that's a huge generalisation because there are obviously some who are realistic enough to realize that not everyone likes the same sculpts and styles.... but it seems like a lot of the DoA membership is of the, "You aren't even alowed to think negative things about my dolls" metality.

Also - some threads are terribly clique-y and close-ranks if you go beyond thinking into actually putting your opinion into a post, expecially if it's about a doll beloved to one of the clique's inner circle. DoA seems to have a large share of people who seem to have the attitude that you have to comment with something "nice" otherwise you are obviously intollerably rude and mean-spirited and shouldn't be allowed to play with the nice kids. Sometimes I even get the feeling that not-commenting on a thread that you visit regularly is seen as unacceptible... as if it's better to make some nice but inane comment on the current topic (even if you don't have anything to add to it) than to not comment at all and wait for a topic you can participate in.

I've bleen flamed (on another list before I joined DoA) for doing just that.

I don't find all BJD's attractive, I find some of them downright ugly. I also find some otherwise attractive sculpts are ruined (for ME) by the way people paint, dress or photograph them. That's not an insult to the people that like and/or have those dolls/sculpts, it's the way I feel about those sculpts or styles.

Not at all - my dolls are to my taste, not necessarily anybody else's. What appeals to one, won't necessarily appeal to all. And I'd far rather someone say to my face that they don't like somethng about my dolls (or me for that matter) than they say it behind my back.

Nope - they're entitled to their opinion.

It can, and does, get me wound-up if people are going out of ther way to be offensive. There's a difference, for example, between saying that a doll doesn't appeal to you, that you don't find it attractive (or even that you find it ugly) and saying that it is ugly as if it's an unarguable fact that nobody else is entitled to disagree with - rather than being a matter of personal taste.... especially if you then go on and on about it in an effort to browbeat those who don't agree with you to cave in and say they do.

Nope. Overreacted in other areas, yes, but not that one.

Generally speaking, when and while I'm angry, I feel justified, when I'm calmer, not always so.

No way - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and not all beholders see or appreciate the same things.

Teddy

 

In this scenario, I would post an opinion if I had experience with the body--otherwise I really wouldn't be able to answer the person's question. Assuming that it's a body I've owned or at least handled, I would say something like "I like X about the body, but I think Y could be better." or "The body poses better if you do XYZ to it." or "It's nice looking but tends to have kicky legs" etc. Things like that. If there's something about a body that I think could be better and someone wants my opinion, I will tell them. The key is just giving the information without being aggressive about it.

If you stick to the facts and just give people the straight up info, they can make judgments for themselves about if they think the body is good or not. People don't need to hear me say I think something is hideous, rather they need to know if a body is functional, if it will fit the head they want for it, if the company is reliable, how much work it needs out of the box to pose well, maybe what the resin feels like etc. If things are given in a factual way, then it seems less personal and is less likely to be taken the wrong way by other people. It also gives the person asking the question the specific information they need to make their own decision.

To be honest, if I had a dolly magic wand, there are little things I would change about my guys and girls. This doesn't mean that I don't love them or am looking to replace them, it's just that perfect doesn't really exist. I'm not afraid to admit those things.

 

Personally why lie, i think it is important you say what you think. I know some doll are more popular then others but that is just how things are. Some dolls freak me out! And some of them i hate!

Others i think are wonderful, though and i would much rather say to someone i like this doll because "..." I don't like this doll because "..." at the end of the day will are all entitled to our opinion and in being false we could miss-lead someone and they could end up with a doll they hate.

Honest is best.