Do you feel that you should pretend to love dolls that you don’t?

Re the body question, if I owned the body in question or had significant experience with it (like had handled it in a shop or when another owner brought it to an event) and thought it had issues, I would consider it my duty to point that out, because the person asking the question is about to drop upwards of $100, probably more like a few hundred, dollars on that body or doll, and they deserve to be able to make an informed choice. If I say that the body is awkward, they can still decide they like it and buy it anyway. I've bought bodies that some people had reviewed as being utter junk, but I still appreciate that they put the info out there because it allowed me to manage my expectations.

 

Part of the problem is when the blunt people and the sensitive people don't understand each other's viewpoints, and then get annoyed at the other person for being that way. The blunt people don't understand why the sensitive people are getting so offended by something, and the sensitive people don't understand how the blunt people could hear something like that and not get offended. Just like it's not wrong for people to have different opinions, it isn't wrong for people to be a little blunt or a little sensitive at times. You shouldn't attack someone for expressing their opinion in a polite and frank manner, but you shouldn't attack people for trying not to hurt other people's feelings or for being a little more emotionally invested in something than other people are. It isn't good to be extremely blunt or extremely sensitive about things like this though, especially on the internet.

And now, for no reason at all, a pile of hamsters:

 

There are plenty of dolls that I dislike, but I see very little of a reason to openly disclose that. If someone said 'I want you to honestly tell me if you think this mold is ugly or not', I would. But otherwise, why interject with something negative? It seems kinda pointless.

 

This. If it was for a review, I'd complain.
But if someone brought me their doll and said 'Oh wow isn't this so nice?'
I'd never in a million years just say "No. I think it looks pretty bad. '_' "
The least I'd do is say something like 'Oh she has potential to have a really great smile if you painted one on', or 'She could really stand to be restrung/sueded', or 'Her eyes are a tad droopy'. There's nothing wrong with subtlety, but bluntness is something I don't often do.

 

If someone I didn't know asked me what I thought of their doll, I'd say it was pretty/cute no matter what. (though it's hard for me to lie, so I wouldn't go any farther than that) I don't know how sensitive that person is or how they'll react to any kind of criticism. This is hard for me to do since I come from an art background where super harsh critique is the norm. I was shocked to come onto this forum where a gentle critique like "well it's a good start, but the eyebrows are crooked and the paint is all around too thick" is often considered harsh and you're mean for even posting it. I think the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" will get you through most situations here. If I see a doll I think is ugly, I just don't comment period.

However if I'm with people I know, or in a chat/forum that I know isn't sensitive, I'll say what I really think.

 

I think all (including myself) ought to be aware that a hobby like BJDs is built heavily on emotional responses and subjective interpretations of what constitutes as beauty, aesthetics and pleasing appearance. One man's "nice" is another man's "meh". Because BJD appreciation is so subjective, it's statistically inevitable that someone, somewhere, absolutely detests the doll sculpt you adore. Thankfully, most people fall on the middle ground! I think if everyone received comments with this in mind, there would be less reactionism and hurt. One person critiquing (or, God forbid, hating on) your doll doesn't mean that the whole world does too, to put it bluntly.

Same applies for the other end of the spectrum: if you (general 'you') detest that particular doll sculpt, be mindful that that someone, somewhere, absolutely adores it. And most people will also fall on the moderate spectrum of "I like it". So if you have a strong negative reaction to someone's doll, be considerate and circumspect about how/whether you express it -- because BJD appreciation is a subjective experience tied up with emotions too.


With all this subjectivity and emotional investment into dolls and photography (and DoA's Gallery is a LOT more gentle-handed than some drawing/art critique forums I've been in), I personally prefer not to give unsolicited negative opinions on the sculpt or someone's photos unless I have something else positive or constructive to balance it out; otherwise I'll hold my peace. But if there's a debate/discussion/critique thread actually soliciting responses on a doll, I will express my opinions, and endeavour to be constructive or informative. And I would expect the recipient be able to receive the comments I make; after all, they solicited them in the first place.

I don't believe in claiming to like something I really don't (I will rather be silent); and I also think negative comment that remains uninformative is generally unhelpful to all and results in drama.

(An aside: I would that the Critique section of DoA be more rigorous! But I'm used to art critique forums that can be aptly described as shark-infested waters, where you'd expect your drawing to be ripped to shreds -- definitely stiffens one's skin. )

 

There’s nothing wrong with giving constructive criticism, even if you hate a particular doll, but just saying its junk or you hate it tells people nothing. I think you can express your opinions even negative ones if it’s done in a non-hurtful way. I minored in creative writing and took art classes in college and we were taught that constructive criticism is an art form too.
Here are some of the guide lines we used: give concrete resends why you like/dislike something, (which most people here say they already do) make suggestions on how it can be improved, (don’t just say your face-up sucks; say it would look better if the eye brows were even) try and find something you can say that’s nice about it (don’t lie, but no matter how bad something is there’s usually at least one good thing you can find to say about it.) This helps the person to listen to what you are saying instated of getting defensive.
I’m not saying people have to follow guide lines just that giving a good helpful critique is more than just saying “it so cute” or “it sucks” nether is vary enlightening.

 

I like the discussion of "blunt" vs. "sensitive." :-)

I think everyone fits somewhere in the spectrum (blunt on one end, sensitive on the other), and it can be difficult to anticipate what someone who the other side might think when you're making comments.

When I was younger, though, I've had friends make blunt comments about topic X, only to later get offended later when, they were on the receiving end of a similar comment. When that happens, I think it's just an issue of "doing onto others what as you would have them do onto you. (Haha, a cliche, I know).

However, I do think we should try to avoid unconstructive "doll-bashing."

 

Some people like Pollock and some people like Monet. Very different artist. But really, if you think about it, all the dolls are art. Someone took hours/days/weeks/moths to maybe even years to learn to and sculpt the dolls we enjoy. To me, regardless of my taste they deserve respect. A kids art may look like scribbles to most, but to the parents it's a masterpiece. It's the same with learning your own face ups. I'm sure if you ask the really good people about it on DoA, they most likely had very humble beginnings, something that wouldn't be bought. I just think that if someone took the time, and put their love into making it, it deserves my respect, and I would not be respecting the people who made it if I were to say it's ugly. And most likely, some of the people who make these dolls are members. Just a thought, would you tell them that their hours of work was bad/ugly?

 

Its gonna be short but if I dont like someone doll I just close the page. If the owner is asking for critic im maybe going to answer, being polite of course, because even if you dont like a mold I think we all can express our feeling without being rude. As someone already said on the topic, if you just say; This doll is ugly. Its mean nothing because you dont explain why you dont like the doll.

But you cant ask everyone to be in that way because some people mentality is a little bit young like in real life. You always have people in real life and on internet that are really rude and sadly we cant do nothing about this ^^'

We have all different taste and theyre so much company to choose between. Everyone can love doll more than other mold and I think thats okay, its the same thing like buying cloth^^

 

Generally, I think that it would be more polite to just not comment on a doll if you don't like it for whatever reason, however if there was a thread specifically asking for an honest opinion on a certain doll I would deffinately say how I really feel about their doll, but in a (hopefully) non-offensive way. In that case if they get offended, it's really their own fault since they asked.

 

Well I'm kinda on the safe side. I always like being polite and not being in trouble. If I see a mold I don't like, I just don't say in public. However I do admit things like "you know, this doll never made it for me, but you made me change my mind!".
And I've never experienced someone saying "your doll is ugly!" or something like that. I guess other ones are polite with me as well xD

 

it depends i think.
if my friend asked me about a doll they wanted to buy, and asked my opinion, I will just tell them honestly what I think about it. Like " the doll is quite pretty, but I think the nose is... or the joints are..." and etc. It's not saying that what I said is exactly truth, but I just want to be honest to them from my view. We see "pretty" or "perfection" differently. Maybe someone prefer a doll that is not too perfect, or maybe some people just dont care about joints or etc.

But if my friend already bought a doll that I may not interested with, I wont just say to their face "it's ugly, why you buy it?" or something. It's just rather rude. I think that time it's more to respects. Like one said, "if you cant say anything good about something, just dont say anything". But if they really really want me to comment at all, I may just say "Not bad. Might not one that I will buy, but she's pretty unique or she have potentials". or something.

 

I know my dolls aren't universally loved, and I wouldn't expect someone to tell me how much they love the sculpts if they really don't deep down. I don't like being patronised or lied to. I also don't like someone telling me how ugly my dolls are. A happy medium is definitely possible;

If you are faced with a gleeful owner and a doll you find most unattractive there is always something nice to say about it, even if you consider the doll to be downright ugly! Look at the quality of the face up (some ugly dolls are extremely well painted), or the quality of the eyes, or the overall style of clothing, or if the skin colour/wig colour combination is particularly complimentary. I think it would be false to gush over a doll you find ugly just to please the owner, it's still lying even if you're trying to be nice, but pick one thing and compliment that.

 

I don't think I've read enough discussions about specific dolls to form an opinion of how the board operates as a whole, but in response to the general question posed by this thread - no, I don't feel as though I should pretend to love a doll when I don't at all. It's so much easier to just steer clear and not bother looking at all after the initial glance repulses me. The blunt vs sensitive sums it up pretty well - I'm extremely blunt because I believe strongly in honesty without white lies, but I definitely don't feel the other party needs to know my opinion about a sculpt I dislike so it's simpler to stay quiet. It really is much easier that way.

That and I don't give two flipping monkeys about someone's else's opinion of what I personally like, so I wouldn't be offended at all even if someone was in my face about it. Would be more irritated at their lack of manners and inconsideration than their actual opinion.

 

In response to the question "Do you feel that you should pretend to love dolls that you don't?" my answer is: No. And, I don't feel anyone should feel obligated to pretend to like my dolls either. I also don't care if they hate the companies I buy my dolls from and, as a result, hate my dolls. They are free to feel how they feel and I don't care how they express it, because for me it's only important for me to love the dolls I have. In other words, I collect for me.

There are dolls I love, dolls I like, dolls I am ho-hum about, dolls I dislike and dolls I absolutely hate. I admit it. There is a particular look that makes me go "ew", but I've gotten in trouble on other forums when voicing my perspective regarding a particular doll so avoid doing it now.

In one such situation, the woman equated the doll with her child. She felt the doll, a realistic child doll, was modelled after her own daughter. When I voiced my dislike of the doll for cultural reasons based on the country the doll was said to originate from the woman took it personally. Very personally. And, she tried to have me banned from that particular forum.

So, I would proceed cautiously when being honest about my opinions. There are a few people out there who will react unpredictably when their dolls are criticized. If I had to do the above situation over again I probably would have gone with a two positive for one negative rule to balance my perspective out a bit. But, over the years, I have learned a lot about what is safe to express and what isn't. But... I still make mistakes

Luckily, DOA is a large enough forum that it is easy to avoid the more negative aspects (dolls you don't like) and focus on the positive (dolls you do like).

 

I dont think so. I have an experience with thyis for that matter. A few years ago, even before i bought my first bjd, we went to the MCM london convention, i think it was 2006 or 2007. In any case, there was a 20 something yearl old girl who had a BJD she had modded. To be honest the doll had been horrifically modeified, the nose sanded to oblivion, no mouth, and the face-up was utterly horrible. Yet everyone walking around was like "oh gorgeous" "oh fab" , and 5 minutes later as they walked away, i heard someone saying "thats actually quite a s@@t looking doll" . So, what do you do in this situation? when this girll approached me, and asked if i had any questions about the doll, i just said "mate i think the modding and faceup are a bit too on the rough side". She was happy to hear my opinion, as she was learning the art of face up and modding, and that doll she had was an experiment.

 

-On the DOA boards where discussion and debates are the norm, do you feel that it is acceptable and safe to express dislike for a doll or doll company?

Only if you have a specific reason to dislike a company and don't get personal about it. "I just hate them! Their dolls are ugly!" is a useless response. "I won't buy from X Company because they messed up my last order and didn't respond to my very polite e-mails." is helpful. Personally, I don't care who likes or dislikes a doll or company--everyone has opinions and I don't need to know them all!

-Do you find that DOA members are overly sensitive to someone not liking their doll? Or do you totally understand the offended party and think people should only say good things on DOA about all dolls.
I think people who have nothing nice to say should just keep it to themselves. If you post photos of your dolls do you want people to say, "Hey, you know, I've always thought those dolls were the ugliest things I've ever seen"??? What is the use of that??? If you have a comment on the photography or the outfit, if it's constructive criticism, and polite, then go ahead, but just saying you dislike the outfit or the pose or the doll is RUDE and UNHELPFUL. Why do you need to say things like that? That's what I'd want to know! What use are such comments? The owner obviously DID like the doll and bought from the company, so why post something negative? Just because you feel a certain way is no good reason for saying something like that. You don't have to post if you don't like a doll. How about leaving it at that?

-Are you willing to admit that you don’t like a doll on the DOA board? I don’t mean in a thread where someone is showing off their particular doll. More like in a thread where people are discussing companies or aesthetics. It would be awkward to drop into someone’s thread just to tell them their doll was not to your liking wow.
If I really dislike a particular doll, I'll just keep it to myself. It doesn't do anyone any good by my saying something nasty. On general posts about dolls (not owner-threads), I will maybe say that a particular doll isn't quite right for me, but I'm not going to say anything worse than that because I know that my opinion is just MINE and others will feel that it's a wonderful doll, so why should I spew all over their love? It's not a question of being willing to admit something. It's just being considerate and polite. I know lots of people don't care about how others feel these days, only their own opinions matter--but I, personally, find that attitude disgusting. Hey, people are free to be as rude and negative as they wish, but I don't think they're just being all good and open and honest about it. TMI!!! Does it really matter what they think? Not to me. Just save it until someone asks for an opinion.

Thumper's Mom had it right: If you can't say anything nice, don't say it.

Unless, as I've said, you have a reason or some information other than just an urge to announce your personal opinion.

-Would you mind if someone said they were not into a doll you happened to own? (please, I am not looking for examples of one weirdo telling you to your face that your doll was horrible, anyone would hate that!)
I don't care, but why would they even DO something like that? How is that different from someone saying my doll was horrible? I don't care if they aren't into my doll. What they are into is up to them. But look, if I went up to you and said, "Hey, I'm so not into your doll!" What is up with that??? Sorry. TMI. Just keep it to yourself!

-Do you find that you can’t help but feel offended/attacked/defensive when someone does not approve of a doll you happen to own? If so why?
It's not a question of feeling offended or attacked. As I said, if you had red hair and I came up and said, "Hey, I've never liked redheads." What would you think? Not necessarily that I'm being offensive, but just... WTF??? Or if you were wearing black boots, or were short or you were holding a Harry Potter book, or you had a puppy... and I came up and told you I didn't like Harry Potter or Black boots or Short People or Puppies??? You can see that it's just stupid, rude behavior.

-Have you ever thought that you over reacted in the forum to someone expressing dislike of a doll you happen to own? If so what was it that made you so mad?

I don't usually bother to respond to stupid or rude behavior. There's just too much of it around. But I do applaud those who call people on it.

I have seen some people be overly defensive of a company or a doll... But I think they have reason, unless they mistakenly took something as being a slam when it really wasn't.

-If you are someone who does get defensive do you feel totally justified when you are mad? If so why?
I don't care enough to be offended or mad. What someone else thinks is their business. I just wish they'd KEEP it their business and not make it everyone's business.

Because, as I said, being stupid and rude is annoying... and sadly, very common.

-If someone dislikes a doll you happen to own do you try to convince that person that the doll is beautiful! If so why?
No. What they like is their business!

I always hope to like every mold but some, I just don’t and maybe I never will. Although I think it is rude to tell someone “Your doll is ugly” I don’t feel it is rude to politely say you are not into that mold or style or whatever. Maybe because I am an artist by trade and I am used to hearing people give their opinions (good or bad) on things I care about. Maybe I am numb to it so I am not totally understanding some of the reactions on the board. But I would like to have a better understanding so here we go...
You don't have to like every sculpt. No one does! But there's not need to go about announcing that you dislike this or that doll, is there?

Well, I'm an artist, too, and constructive criticism is fine and useful. However, since the doll owner is not the maker of the doll, there's nothing at all useful in pointing out that the sculpting has gone wrong with this or that. And often, crits are not constructive, they are just "I don't like that" which is NOT useful! In constructive criticism, OPINIONS ARE USELESS. Whether you LIKE or DISLIKE a piece you are critting, is irrelevant. You need to keep that stuff to yourself and focus on whether they've got the anatomy correct, or can improve in contrast or design or composition, etc.

And you have to understand WHEN a crit is welcome or helpful and when it is not. If someone has finished a piece and is not going to work on it any more and doesn't want your comments on how to fix it up, then you really shouldn't be critiquing them!

I NEVER go up to people and start critiquing their artwork without being asked!!! That is also horribly rude.

So, basically, I believe we differ in what we consider rude. Well, that's just life. But don't expect people to admire what they might consider as rude behavior, even if you don't think it's rude.

Of course, if someone ASKS you what you think and you reply politely, that's a totally different question! Of course, it's still pretty useless if it's just a "I don't like it" answer, but whatever.

To reinforce the answer to the thread title: No one says you have to pretend! Just don't volunteer negative comments unless asked, and when asked, make sure your comments are useful and polite as possible. And it is ALWAYS possible to say something positive, even if you don't like a doll. Comment on something you like about it! But if you can't do that, then just be considerate and nice about your commets. If you only have a negative opinion with no useful information and aren't asked, don't pretend, just keep it to yourself.

 

I feel really uncomfortable posting anything negative about any doll on DoA. For some reason it seems really unacceptable to say anything negative. For example i think if I said "I dislike volks because their dolls seem very bland to me" I would expect to be torched by a rabid volks fan. Of course, volks dolls really DO seem bland to me, when i'm looking at the company promo pics, all the girls just seem like slightly different variations on the exact same sculpt. Does that mean I think your volks is ugly? No, of course not. Does that mean I disapprove of people who own volks dolls? No, dolls are a passion and maybe they see something lovely in them that i dont see. Its just how i personally feel, but people really do seem to get their feelings really hurt when other people have different opinions, MOST of all if they own a doll from the company in question. I hate the feeling that i have to tip-toe around some of my opinions, even though i'm NOT being rude or mean.
And i'm not talking about going to a gallery thread of someone's volks doll and being like "volks is boring". If i do post something in someone's personal photo thread, it would be like "You know, I've never really been attracted to volks molds, but your girl is absolutely wonderful!"

I want to start a thread that is: "molds you dont like, and why you dont like them." I like to talk about molds i dislike, and molds i like.... it's not all just sunshine and rainbows.
People who collect paintings or cars talk about cars they like AND cars they dont like, or paintings they like... etc. I think it's unrealistic just to ONLY talk about the positive stuff ALL the time. It gets old. There's nothing wrong with expressing the aspects of a mold you don't like in a mature way. As long as you're not saying it about someone's personal doll, or in someone's personal gallery thread, i think any opinion should be expressed.