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Doll Clothes and Accessories made from Fur and Leather

Nov 18, 2010

    1. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)?
      No, in fact I'd probably sit and stare it a lot longer since it takes more time to properly make leathers and furs into clothing.

      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)?

      As long as it wasn't from an endangered species I'm fine with all leathers and furs. I hang out with several trappers and processors so I know where the leathers and furs I purchase come from.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      They tend to have the cheaper scraps of leather/fur that are the casts offs for companies. Unless the project called for over priced scraps, I'd much rather go find a local processor, trapper or my favorite place reservation.


      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      Unfortunately, you don't usually eat foxes, raccoons and the like, so any use of those furs would not be a total animal recycle job, but it wouldn't bother me.
       
    2. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)?
      Not insulted or shocked. Leather tends to come from food animals, so I'm less bothered by it (although I won't use lambskin). Fur tends to come from wild animals not used for food, or wild animals not suitable for captivity kept in captivity. I could care less whether it's logically consistent or not, real fur creeps me out. I've never been sure why vegetarians and vegans (I'm neither, btw) are constantly called on to justify their choices all the time with "logical" reasons but everybody else gets the "I eat/buy what I want because I want to" emotional reasons. I'm not going to wear fur or real mohair, and neither are my dolls. I love fake fur, though. I love kitsch and I love stuff that sends up social status symbols such as real fur.

      I bought a Volks set once that I think may have had real fur trim (it can be hard to tell these days) on the jacket. I got rid of the jacket, because I just wasn't comfortable with it around. I have avoided buying products when it wasn't clear if the fur was real or fake.

      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)?
      Yes, because otherwise those byproducts would just get chucked. At least get some use out of them if you're going to kill an animal.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      I'd be less likely to buy it from a large chain store. It can be harder to check out how they get their materials -- the staff are highly unlikely to know.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      Yes. Buying locally is preferable for many reasons, one being the potential ability to go see how the animals are treated and how the products are produced.My father helps out on a farm and we know exactly how the beef we eat was treated when it was a cow.
       
    3. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)?
      I wouldn't be pleased, but not shocked and not insulted. I've gotten into the fur debate many times before and I don't wish to start arguing now, just express my opinion.I don't like fur, at all. Yeeeeears ago people were forced to use fur in their clothing to keep warm, they had no other choice against harsh winters because the fabric wasn't anywhere near the thick quality it is today. But these days, we have plenty of ways to stay warm that don't require fur. Legally obtained or not, it seriously irks me that humans use real fur in fashion today. It's just vanity, not survival. So yes, it would bother me more if the fur wasn't even on a person, it's on a doll. I've got plenty of faux fur that's soft, looks good, and didn't harm any animals in the process. Leather bothers me far less because you know someone is eating that animal somewhere.

      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)?
      Again, it bothers me less. If I knew outright that someone skinned the animal and then sent the meat off to be eaten, I wouldn't mind. But things like mink and chinchilla are different, you know nobody is eating a chinchilla.It's using every part of the animal, otherwise it's just... not fair to them.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      I'd rather buy it from a farm where I know the meat was used as well.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      Yes, see above. Obviously this is a passionate subject for me XD Not here to start any battles, this is just what I think. Please don't try to convince me otherwise <3
       
    4. I'm curious why so many people keep insisting leather is OK "because someone ate the cow" when it's been repeatedly pointed out - by myself and others - that this simply is not the case? If you think the cow that provided your leather shoes ended up on someone else's plate as steak then you're seriously mistaken. Meat & dairy cattle are not the same as hide cattle. Wearing leather is EXACTLY the same as wearing fur.

      There seems to be an awful lot of self-delusion that goes on in the fur/leather debate, with people telling themselves that leather's "OK really because someone ate the animal" even when informed to the contrary.
       
    5. Arkady: there also seems to be a huge misconception between fur animals too. There are the mass-killed furs (these produce your coats and other factory-produced items - domestic rabbit, mink, chinchilla, ect.), and then there are your hunter furs (furs that the hunter does not want, as they are hunted for the meat - WILD rabbit, deer, maybe even bear, ect. - however, I will admit that there are hunters that DO hunt primarily only for fur). There's a large difference between the two depending on the honesty of the hunter, but they always tend to get grouped together.
       
    6. If someone knows the farmer or hunter personally and as a result knows this to be the case in fact, it would be pretty strange for them to believe what a relative stranger on the internet tells them as proof to the contrary. Since a number of people are mentioning that specifically, it seems out of place to talk in absolutes in regard to what is in reality a much more diverse reality. There are certainly common practices, but claiming one or the other is universal strikes me as just begging to be disproved is all.
       
    7. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)? Not insulted at all. I don't much care what people choose to put on their dolls. I am very against the way that animals are treated in such situations but I am not anti fur or anti meat. Moral issues aside, I PERSONALLY find the idea of wrapping a carcass around your body, be it your feet or your shoulders or what have you is kind of gross. I would be a bit uncomfortable with the knowledge that there was a dead animal part on myself or one of my dolls but that's just me. If someone else has a beautiful item on their doll I will look at it for the sake of the piece not for the content of the outfit. Be it gummy worms or cow hide.

      As a side note I do own one wig with animal hide and the thing terrified me when I first got it. I almost didn't want to touch it. But I got over it and really like the way it looks. So I guess its all subject to the situation really.

      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)? Not really though I completely HATE the look of those scarves with the fox heads still visible *shiver*

      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      Nope

      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      I might feel better about the distributor over all but I don't think my opinion on the fur would be much different.
       
    8. It depends. In general, no- I eat meat and I wear leather (and fur) myself.

      HOWEVER, I won't buy fur (or leather) products produced in China because of inhumane treatment of factory-farm raised furbearers there. Sometimes it's not possible to figure out where the materials in an item came from, and it won't necessarily absolutely stop me from purchasing something- but I try really hard not to. Additionally, if I'm getting a fur item, I want to know what it is- for SURE. (There's been issues in the past with fur items from China being dog and cat fur, and I *do* have a problem with that! Inconsistant of me, sure, but I wouldn't eat them, either!)
       
    9. The use of animal products doesn't exactly ruin my day every time I see it, or make me think badly of people. My dolls and I try to stay away from leather and fur, no matter what animal it's from (I'm one of those people that goes out of their way not to kill bugs). Unfortunately, sometimes it's hard not to acquire a bit of leather or fur when buying fullset dolls or getting shoes for both dolls and you. I'm pretty sure one of my limited doll's outfits has real fur on it, and one of my dolls came with a real fur wig. And I'm very sure some of their shoes are real leather. I tolerate these things as they are heavily integrated in human society, but I think everyone should do what they can to help the world evolve into a happier place.
       

    10. after years i am STILL surprised when people say that they can't tell the difference between cat and rabbit or dog and fox. they look COMPLETELY different :nowords: At one time i had a leather coat that was lined in cat. a relative bought it when they went to china and didn't realize what it was. I did. I still wore it. it came from a country that has different beliefs and views on those animals and i can't fault them for that. some people would never eat a cow or wear it's skin but we do and we expect not to be persecuted for it so i will grant others the same courtesy.

      those of you who don't want real fur but sometimes can't tell the difference (i have been fooled at first glance before) there is an easy way to tell, part the hairs and look at where they are attached. if there is a woven ground that the hairs are attached to, it is fake, if they are rooted into a solid, leather/suede looking material, it is real. you can usually tell by the smell too if it is a new item, fake smells like fabric, real smells like tanning chemicals, usually lanolin.

      also, why do people not read previous posts in a thread before they post? like arkady said, that steak and that coat most likely did not come from the same animal so your argument is invalid unless you have solid evidence to back it up.

      lastly, i LOVE the scarves with the heads! they bite eachother's butts! so silly :whee:
       
    11. I suppose my question is; Does ALL the leather in the leather industry come from animals killed specifically for their skin?

      It's just that it's not self delusion that people believe it's a byproduct, but I think companies/propoganda tell us this so we're enticed by the idea that we're doing something good. It's possible I'm wrong on this though. Even doing a quick search on the net says that leather is a byproduct. So confused *_*

      Even with this news, I'm sorry to say I'd still buy leather and fur. Only because I eat meat/dairy/eggs, and it'd be hypocritical to say no to an animal product when I clearly eat them.
       
    12. I think most people who can't tell don't realize how diverse some cat and dog fur is- especially after it's been treated, and especially with sheared furs. I'm also leary of NOT recognizing something like Raccoon Dog- an endangered species that is farmed for it's fur, and some of the more exotic stuff that is coming out of china with labels like "Tibetan Wolf" are really dog and cat fur. :(

      The treatment issues are, for me, the larger ones, though. And people are welcome to their own decisions about what they will and will not consume in any way- this is MY choice. I'm voting with my money NOT to support an industry I find inhumane.

      On leather? The steak and the shoes you're wearing may no thave come from the same cow- but the vast majority of cows that are processed for meat in the US and South America are also skinned and the hides go into the leather industry. There's no such THING as hide cattle. The breeds which typicaly have the really wildly spotted attractive hides actually tend to sell for a bit less at auction because even the premium for the hide isn't made up for by the fact that they typically have breed characteristics that make them less desirable as meat animals.

      The animal procesing industry in the US is not particularly sustainable. CAFOs are disgusting and an environmental nightmare. But yeah- leather does mostly come from meat cattle. (And most dairy cattle BECOME meat cattle after they start to decline in production. There's no green retirement fields for dairy cattle, really- they become low-grade industrial beef for animal food and industrial processed meat like pot pies, cafeteria burgers, etc.)
       
    13. The hides of the cows I slaughtered in the abattoir weren't used for anything. They went to landfill; the average abattoir worker does not have the skills necessary for skinning a hide. Things may be different where you are - but here in the UK there IS a difference between hide cattle and beef cattle.
       
    14. No, I like them both.
       
    15. Arkady, when were you working in an abbatoir? I know there have been periods when it wasn't allowed in the UK because of various disease outbreaks. But here in the US- and the UK cattlefarmers I know (who are, admittedly, small in number- I don't think any of them do it as more than a hobby and for home use, to be honest)- yeah, pretty much all cattle in the slaughter system go for leather.
       
    16. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)?
      Such little is used, I don't see much problem with it. It's the person's choice if they want their dolls to wear dead animals and since the use of animal skins/furs won't go away, you just have to get used to it. Still, some furs/skins I do not approve of the use. Mostly because they are creatures people don't eat or they are raised just to be skinned then thrown away.
      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)?
      In a personal view, yes. I believe we should use as much if not all of the creatures we kill. It would be a waste to throw away fur and skin if it can be used, same with bones/horns (they can be used for knife handles and such). I like it when as much of a killed animal is put to use of some sort. Even a craft/hobby type project. Better than being thrown away. And though I don't eat rabbit or sheep or duck/goose (tastes weird) I don't find using fur and feathers a bad thing as long as the meat is put to use by someone else. I have a goose-down bed set. I love it. I hope someone ate the rest of the animal and am fairly certain they would, but even if they didn't people are still going to kill things for as little as one part of their body or less.
      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      Not really. But in those cases the furs and leathers may not come from a place where the meat is also distributed. Animal skin/fur is still what it is.
      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      Oh I'd be more willing to buy fur and leather if I knew that. Even some bones if not the meat as well. A bone knife for my doll would be pretty cool, or a tooth necklace haha. I would definitely buy more and use more in that sense.

      I am however very against poaching of any sort. So many exotic animals get killed every year for their fur, claws, horns, even as pets. Like ivory hunters or chimp baby nappers. It's horrible. I find most techniques hunters use to get croc skins and snake scales cruel too, mostly because all they want is that one part of them, their beautiful skin. I don't wear any animal parts, I have a few things that came from animals, antlers or things, but I also know where they came from (except the goose-down) because I have hunters in the family. And hey, if you can have deer jerky and steak and such, as well as a pair of antlers on the wall, and ...a strange hoof ashtray at the uncle's that's just fine. I don't mind it because everyone was full and content, and such little waste was produced save some blood and parts that got boiled up for the dogs as a treat.
       
    17. Would you be insulted or shocked to see a doll wearing clothes made from animal byproduct (furs and leathers and such)?
      No. My dolls too have outfits with fur and leather (both faux or real). As I have leather shoes or winter shoes with fur inside myself, it would be hypocrisy to say otherwise.

      Does it make a difference if the byproducts came from animals we eat (cows, rabbits, pigs, sheep, etc.)?
      Somehow it does. All the things I used or have ready are from our own animals. All &#8220;rabbits&#8221; in my closet have had names, actually. We breed them ourselves for meat AND fur (no wasting here ;) grandmother would kill us for throwing skins away). Also we are surrounded by farmers aka hobby skinners and I know every piece of leather or fur I bought came from a well fed and loved sheep, rabbit or cow. Well, they&#8217;re not &#8220;profi&#8221; colored and stuff, but still the best.

      Killing an animal just because of its fur and nothing else seems odd to me. As if you just stole someone&#8217;s clothes! I think my mom has a single piece of fox fur on her winter coat. It was a &#8220;dad+car+fox in the middle of the road&#8221; kind of accident and it was dead on the spot. This happens sometimes and he skinned it himself&#8230; but I still don&#8217;t like it without knowing why.

      For sure I would never bring home any exotic animal fur.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the leather/fur from a crafts store (like Hobby Lobby or Michael's)?
      Faux anytime. Real? Never! Even if they had thousand and one certificate about the nice conditions the animals were living in.

      Would it make a difference if you bought the byproduct straight from the distributor, whom you knew to use all parts of the animal?
      Yes. Always this. And please, if you have the chance, do it this way.
      Or on every market or internet store you can get very realistic looking faux furs.
       
    18. I think this also depends a lot on what region of the US you're in. In a region where most of the cattle are raised and slaughtered to be sold locally (I'm thinking of Oregon/Washington, specifically, where even the chain stores take pride that most of their meat and produce are bought from local vendors), the hide is much, much more likely to be sent for leather, because the cattlefarmers are probably very close to people who tan and process hides. Since these are generally smaller operations, as well, selling the hides to a tanner is probably a nice little side-profit.

      In a region where the cattle are raised and slaughtered for national or international sale, though, that might get a little more tricky. Those are probably, overall, bigger farms that need to have their cattle slaughtered faster, and the hide may be more prone to damage or being overlooked. And then there's the question of whether selling those hides to a tanner would be worth harvesting them properly.
       
    19. aleen: Hahaha dang, it's too bad you live in the Czech Republic... I don't know what the restrictions are on furs, but I'd ask for you to help me get in touch with the hobby farmers - been looking for somewhere better to get my furs...

      Micchi: I don't doubt that commercial cattle are probably treated badly and their deaths create much waste. I wouldn't be surprised if local small farmers do their best to make as much use of their cattle as possible, because hey... that hide you're tossing out because you hacked it to shreds rather than taking the time to skin it off properly is akin to just tossing a few Christmas gifts into the local manure pile.
       
    20. I'm in the process of making a tiny Mink stole for my dolls to share.

      I myself deal in antique furs, from the 30s and the 40s, I don't have a problem with the wearing of fur and I wear it daily along with a leather jacket... As long as it's FROM those times.

      I dislike and won&#8217;t buy/sell any furs that are modern, simply because it removes the charm from the product.. Sounds weird really as the animals were probably both killed in inhumane ways, both now and back then.

      Eitherway, it's good business and I think it looks beautiful.