Dolly androgyny -why do we like it?

I always feel resistance at the way the word androgyny is used to refer to effeminate men -- if they look like a girl to you, they aren't androgynous! If you have an opinion one way or the other what their sex is, they aren't androgynous. Personally I love me some femmy boys, or least just some skinny ones, no doubt about that, with just a wee bit of space in my heart for some Iple muscles. But I prefer . . . let's say calmer versions of both male and female bodies, although I don't go for true androgyny in my own resin union.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about the "Asian aesthetic is more effeminate" argument when looking at Iplehouse, Soom, Limwha, etc. (Also I lived in Japan for years, and Japanese men really don't look on average any more like women than any other group of guys.) Early BJDs were meant to look like children, and had a healthy amount of anime influence; many popular manga and anime are aimed at a younger female audience, which across cultures is a place you seem to see fewer macho guys and more boyish or pretty faces (Justin Bieber or Bill Kaulitz come to mind).

There's a pretty good selection of manly sculpts now available, so I'm a little puzzled by the "I'm so different in this hobby because I like masculine sculpts and nobody makes them" thing that is still so prevalent. More realistic, more mature, and more burly has been the trend for a while now. Look at Spiritdoll, Souldoll, Fairyland, Soom, Iplehouse, Dolltown, Ringdoll, and everybody else putting out broad-shouldered, muscular bodies.

 

I like slender, androgynous males. (Not child-like, though.) And I also like manly men (just not totally hairy or ape-like...).

I don't see that liking slender, beautiful males is such a weird thing. If there wasn't a market for that kind of thing, there wouldn't be dolls available for sale... Or people wouldn't like Orlando Bloom playing Legolas. It's not everyone's cup of tea--but neither are manly men. Variety is good. Healthy and normal, I think.

 

I just want to point out that many women prefer androgynous men IRL.

 

I just wanted to say that one person's view of androgynous is different from anothers. I personally think that Dollshe Saints looks like mature male BJDs, while my mom told me they looked like girls! My Migidoll Miho on the other hand, looks feminine.

I also think that most male dolls don't look like "manly men" because they are dolls. Usually dolls only go up to a certian level of manliness the majority likes "pretty" dolls. Even the boys I think are manly I describe as being pretty (unless they have facial hair) ^^

 

I like all kinds of styles of dolls . I like the fantasy ones , I like the realistic ones and I like the big0eyed chuby cheeks look. I also like all kind of bodys.

 

I for one am not in the least bit attracted to androgenous dolls. I find it quite disturbing the way some adult dolls are created to look like giant children and male dolls created with ultra feminine characteristics. In my dolly world boys will be boys and girls WON'T be boys!

I think that way of thinking affects the sculpts I choose to buy. I like Iplehouse because with their sculpts, there is no doubt in of gender even down to the juvenile sculpts. I like that all their sculpts seem to appear to be in alignment with the gender that they present. I guess with the affinity for Anime, Manga and things of that nature, the adrogenous BJD has become quite popular and I know it has it's fans.

The wonderful thing about BJDs is that to each his own and everyone is free to like what they like. The fact that there are so many companies catering to such a diverse group of collectors is always a boon as well.

 

I have always loved androgyny, so I'm not sure how to answer this, lol. It's just the look that I am drawn to. It's great to have such an ambiguously gendered face and even body (for some males) to work with, in terms of pushing gender boundaries with crossdressing and appearance.

 

I actually don't like androgyny. Its so not my thing. I'm up for people having their dolls look like they want, but there are few dolls that are truly sexless. Normally, what people call "androgyny" here is just girly men or manly girls.

 

I, personally, like my older male dolls to look like mature men and my younger ones can be youthful, but still masculine. Same with my girls. But the market will supply what the consumers demand, so there must be a large percentage of collectors who prefer a more androgynous look.

That being said; I can appreciate a beautiful doll no matter where they are on the spectrum just as I appreciate all types of people.

 

Androgyny isn't a problem for me. I love it in fact. When I create characters that are androgynous, I buy androgynous dolls for them (manly girls or effeminate men). But I still appreciate manly men and true women. I don't understand why there's so few manly girls in BJDs... (probably because most of BJDs addicts are women ?) I just have a little problem with childish/"manga" faces for adults.

 

I'm attracted to this sort of thing in real life, so it kind of transfers over to dolls. I suppose anime can be partially to blame in my case, but it isn't the be-all-end-all to why I really like androgynous dolls. They have a certain beauty about them that just takes my breath away. It's the perfect blend of male and female that you can't find in real life (close, but not really). I find it incredibly alluring, and I always have.

 

I think, as has been cited before, not all of us are attracted to childlike/androgynous dolls with mature bodies. In fact that is what put me off BJD for a long time, they reminded me of that Japanese culture image of the "little girl" adult female dressed in a school uniform which I find a bit "yawn". I don't need a load of people to tell me that I'm misunderstanding and that adults dressing as children are part of this or that subculture, or that I need to read more Manga or watch more anime... it just doesn't appeal to me or interest me and it wasn't until I saw BJDs that didn't conform to this look that they started to grow on me.

I don't have any problems with men dressing as women, wearing make-up or being androgynous (or women either for that matter), reaching my late teens in the 80's, that was pretty much the norm in the circles I moved in back then. I don't find it shocking or dangerous and I'm not sure many people do in Western society anymore. So I have no problem with androgynous mature dolls, they just don't appeal to me. If I am going to spend a lot of money on a doll I want it to meet my standard of aesthetics, I only have one male doll and he looks very male and very mature even if he does wear long wigs and foppish clothing, there is no mistaking the assigned gender of my doll.

So to Chikan Jikan, your statement should read "SOME women prefer androgynous men IRL", the use of the word "Many" makes it sound as though it's the majority or at least a 50/50 split! I had a sexual relationship with a very androgynous cross dressing male in my twenties, it was great because he was an amazing individual, but every other male I've ever been attracted to has been fairly representative of their gender and I think that is far more attractive if we are just talking about looks alone. Give me stubble, biceps and a strong jaw on a man any day!

As BJDs have evolved so has the variety of looks available and now those of us who are not interested in the child with adult body aesthetic have much more choice thankfully. The popularity of Soom and Iplehouse in particular attests to this and vive la difference! There is plenty of room for all of us with all our varied interests and preferences, just don't tar us all with the same brush.

 

Personally, unles I had a specific character in mind who was a cross dresser/possed as the oppeset gender (and I do have some characters like that) I dont really care for androgyny in dolls. I find some are nice just because the shape of the face is nice.

I wonder if there are so many doll fans who love a genderless face because there are many sculpts like that around, or if there are so many genderless sculpts because they have so many fans.

I esspecially do not like that all the msd males look like little kids or girls, whats wrong with a teen age-looking guy acctually looking like a guy? If it were only a few makes or molds, that's fine, that's just some people's taste but why are MOST of them girly looking?

Sometimes it seems like the character of the doll is more androgynous than the sculpt of the doll. Like a boy who wears dresses or a lot of pink or has an obsession with cute things.
I don't really get why some doll owners dress them that way--and then are confused or irritated when others don't see that its a boy.

 

I love doll androgyny for my child (and also certain adult) celestial characters. It doesn't make sense to me that they'd have a defined gender (or even consider identifying with a defined gender, like their adult counterparts). There's something... incredibly elegant, elevated and distinctly not human (in a good way - not in a bad way!) about a being that doesn't have a defined gender and sex and doesn't even bother about such trivial concepts.

Otherwise, with the rare exception of an adult androgynous celestial being, all of my characters have the features that are characteristic of their gender (sharper facial features for men due to their higher levels of testosterone, softer, rounder features for women due to a thicker layer of adipose tissue under their skin; this is true for ALL humans who have started puberty, regardless of race), which makes finding dolls for them kind of hard. And I don't mean beefcake muscle for all men - but, most of the time when you pass a man on the street it's not hard to tell he's a man even if he's not a body-builder, right? That's what I want, but there aren't many dolls out there like that. It's either beefcake or flat girl for men. (I think there's a better variety for women out there as far as obviousness of their gender goes, though I wouldn't mind seeing the other end of the spectrum and see some petite, androgynous women with flat chests) I want a doll that's similar to my boyfriend (not in looks, per se, but in physically what kind of a man he is). He's not terribly tall, and has curves and long eyelashes, but at the same time you'd have to be blind to mistake that squared-off curve of the jawbone and the sharp outline of the cheekbone for anything other than male. I seem to distinctly favour the effeminately build, but still obviously male men. I used to go crazy for the effeminate wait-that-isn't-a-girl men, but as I grew older I gained a preference for men who retain their masculine characteristics while still looking youthful and lithe.

As for why MSD's look androgynous - it's because the ones that fall under the umbrella of "immature" MSD's (like Volks MSDs, or Kid Delfs - the sculptor specifically said their idea was of a 7-year-old when they came up with the concept) were all sculpted with the idea of a pre-pubescent child in mind. Children, unlike adults, have not yet experienced the adult dosages of hormones, and therefore are much softer and effeminate-looking regardless of gender. You can stick a small boy in a dress and most people probably wouldn't even blink an eye if they weren't told it was a boy. I'm gonna be honest, I've never thought of MSD's as teens anyways (the immature ones - the mature ones are 1:4 scale adults), because they're waaaaayyyyyy too short and big-headed to be above the age of 10, especially when compared to an SD. People often forget that teens are pretty much the same height as adults.

 

Disregarding bjd bodies for the moment, (of which I have seen much variety in shape and size, and can't complain too much) I feel like I do see a lot of androgyny where only head sculpts are concerned. When I've gone through many a company's selection of blank head sculpts, I do find that the majority tend to have smooth features, small proportions and overly-large eyes and foreheads that give them a childish appeal. Which makes sense in a way when you consider that children are particularly more "androgynous" and that the ability to customize is emphasized in this hobby. Childlike smoothness (button nose, no cheek definition, no wrinles) + androgyny = face sculpt that can be very customized.

This sort of pristine, smooth, blankness is actually something I don't like to see in bjd face sculpts. There's nothing wrong with them, and they're beautiful, they just aren't my personal taste. I like the facial sculpts that I look at without a face-up and I see personality. Adult male sculpts with cheekbones (like a lot of men tend to have), girl faces that don't have a generic "moe" appeal. Facial sculpts with odd noses. You CAN have all of these things and still have a ridiculously attractive doll. I'm just saying I wish I saw more "quirks" in some of the varieties of face-sculpts out there sometimes....I guess this is why I love companies like Souldoll, and Ipplehouse.

Going back to the subject of body sculpts, one thing I almost never see which I noticed some have mentioned is female-sculpts with a masculine appeal.....or maybe just girl dolls who have been made to have a tomboyish appeal. Maybe it's just me, but....I love pretty boys and handsome girls. And I'm a girl. Seeing a girl body with some natural muscle would be kind of cool. *needs more girl dolls who look like they can kick arse*

 

I love a good manly man sculpt too, but a nicely muscled female body would be awesome! I've got a couple of female characters who are serious cradle to grave warrior women. And while I don't think you have to be over muscled to be strong...I'd still prefer a stronger looking body for them.

 

We here don't like it. I wish more companies made dolls that look gender specific. The girly boy thing really doesn't do it for me, although i have two such boys which were my first BJDs when i didn't know that there were companies that made more realistic looking sculpts. Then again, to each his or her own I guess. let the collector have what the collector wants. if a large number of poeple wern't buying them, then they would cease to be made.

 

I'm a real sucker for pretty boys. My Louis is sweet enough to pass for a girl, even though that was not intended. I simply fell in love with his delicate, delicate face. On the other hand, manly dolls just freak me out. It's a personal preference, but seing a muscled body (Veins! D/ sharp, bearded face literally drives me nuts. So not my thing. But yes, I do find androgyny as such very appealing, so I guess that's what is at fault.

 

These dolls are naturally on the feminine side - they are smooth and perfect, mostly with soft features associated with feminine beauty rather than masculinity. We 'like' it as a community because its possibly the reason a lot of us were drawn to it in the first place.

My dolls to me are a fantasy world where anything goes. So if my boy wants to be a dandy dressed in candy pastel colours and have powdered hair and wear more makeup than his lady, then so be it! He doesn't have to integrate with real society (although there are plenty of nightclubs in London where you can see guys dressed like that...!) which to me is the fun of it. Creating eccentric characters is the greatest thing about this hobby, I can't imagine having dolls that just look like ordinary guys in my office or something

 

I am a lukewarm anime fan but dont like doll androgynies in emo/punk/visual clothing (although I adore some anime characters who look exactly like this). It is nothing against their owners personal taste - I just dont like boys with girl faces and anorexic bodies. It has a lot to do with my sexual preferences because I like males looking like males and females looking like females On the other side - I dont even look for a pornstar with huge boobs or some Conan the barbarian (no offence! just nothing for me).

(Going to love Souldoll Vito Lester.)