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Dolly androgyny -why do we like it?

Jul 25, 2008

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    1. I'm skipping over the root question because it's as old as time and is purely a matter of opinion. "Why do some people like androgynous dolls?" is like "Why do some people like chocolate?"

      Soom Vega-- s/he was released & sold as both genders. One of 'em didn't sell so well, so they tried the other one. The sculpt looks great both ways, imho.

      Androgyny is not about "not having a sex", either; it's about having traits of both genders (andros + gynos). Androgynous sculpts are everywhere. Volks Isao, I've put him on a girl's body for the day and he looked wonderful, like some hard-boned bitchy model chick. Volks Tohya, I have a friend who's got male & female Kohya & Tohya twins, and the effect is perfect. Any of the heavier-featured Dollstown, Soom, or Unidoll girls, too, they'd make formidable males or stay as some heroic-lookng females. Whether a sculpt works one way or the other is often a matter of opinion, too, and depends heavily upon the viewer's tastes & experience.

      Also, a bit of warning: "Ridiculous" isn't the right word you want to use to characterize people who have manly bodies & girly faces. It's unnecessarily inflammatory.
       
      #21 JennyNemesis, Jul 25, 2008
    2. Androgany has the ability to combine what is pleasing about both genders, and is visually interesting (to me anyway). I'm more attracted to what is interesting than what is conventionally considered beautiful.
       
      #22 Taco, Jul 25, 2008
    3. Exactly. Youthful =/= Androgyne

      As a species, we're attracted to youth because we equate it with health. It's not the only thing we equate with health - good musculature, clear complexions, and cleanliness are examples of other things that can contribute to this impression. But it does influence us.

      Toss me into the category of "people who don't want all their dolls to be androgynous." I like my male dolls male. Now, this doesn't mean they have to be ugly - male doesn't mean ugly, male means not female. My female dolls run the gamut from super-feminine to almost-masculine, and I have only one doll, Hideo, who almost fits into the androgyne category - physically male but with female genitals (except, you know, people kinda miss that aspect of the character cause they're too busy staring at the six arms I've put on the body). She's also a reverse of the usual "androgyny" type mod, because she has a very masculine body, rather than being a boy-with-breasts (or a boy with the breasts removed and male genitals added) like other gender-mod dolls I've seen on this board.

      I actually prefer more masculinized characters, for the most part, whether they be male or female in actuality. My (currently only complete) female doll, Wren, is often mistaken for a male, even by non-doll-collectors!

      EDIT: I've noticed a lot of people seem to be confusing the terms "asexual" and "androgynous" here. Asexual means "without sexual characteristics," whereas androgynous means "having male and female characteristics" (ergo, not distinctly gendered because of a mixture, as opposed to being not distinctly gendered because of an absence). Youthful individuals are more traditionally considered asexual rather than androgyne, because they have not yet hit the point where they begin their sexual development (and thus gain sexual characteristics).
       
      #23 Kiyakotari, Jul 25, 2008
    4. hm, Well...for me I like it because...well maybe it's because I'm an anime junky and I do enjoy the long haired,thin,nearly feminine characters because they're so beautiful. Granted,I don't think I'll own any dolls to that extreme but there's an unnatural beauty about it....I can't really explain it xD
       
      #24 OxiElu, Jul 25, 2008
    5. What interesting and varied thoughts! What a lot of highly articulate people this hobby attracts!

      I used to believe that angrogyny represented safety, because we are all androgynous when we are children, but many of these beautiful dolls that I see in the gallery are pretty edgy. They often have very grown-up, even world weary (even jaded), expressions on their ageless faces. They also look ethereal though, as though they were not of this world. Maybe an androgynous ideal is the best of us as a species, and we manifest it in the dolls. I can't wait until I actually see a real BJD - so far I am just waiting for one in the mail.
      Shasta
       
      #25 shasta, Jul 25, 2008
    6. Well with all the drama and heartache that adult life (ie sex) brings, perhaps the androgynous dolls are an escape from that.... the joy of an adult mind without the adult bodily urges that really screw up your reasoning at times and sometimes your life.

      Raven
       
      #26 ravendolls, Jul 26, 2008
    7. I don't really like OR dislike the androgonous dolls. I like how some of them look, but for me, I want my girls to look like girls and my boys to look like boys.
       
      #27 Missie L, Jul 26, 2008
    8. i think it all lies in the fact that androgynous human beings are quite rare. that is what makes them interesting & beautiful. in much the same way that most people do not look like super models, thus many people find them attractive. (think of it like this, if everyone looked like a "super model," then there would be a totally different kind of model in fashion magazines.)

      since to many their BJD's are a part of a beauitful fantasty life or some aspect of perfection, or elegence~ they want to incorperate things that are rare to create this universe.

      to be forever young, or to be androgynous. or to be slender & tall. or to be always prefectly dressed. or to have elf ears or to be from another time.

      whatever it is, it is to have a special private world that is perfect to you.

      things that are not everywhere in the "real world" can be stored up in a personal BJD world. it is a way to "own" this beauty of what is rare, perfect, eternal.

      & if your taste for the rare runs toward androgyny (& it does in many) then you will see that refeclted in those people's dolls.

      that is why i think that it is one trend (of many) that will stay.
       
      #28 hardcoredolly, Jul 26, 2008
    9. For me... I guess that the allure is that I like something that can flippantly defy society's concepts of gender, which I'm unfond of, and look so darn good while doing it. :]
       
      #29 Leishu, Jul 26, 2008
    10. This was incredibly well said! :...(

      My feelings are completely in sync with what was said in the above quote. I myself am fond of androgyny, and I think what makes it so special in BJD's is because of the lack of perfection we find in real life. I'm not saying I expect my men to look like girls, or that I am waiting to fall in love or be attracted to a man really like that, but it is attractive and my own ideal for a "perfect" BJD.

      As hardcore dolly said, one facet of BJD COULD BE perfection if that it your shtick, and in the opinion of some, myself included, that is one form of perfection.
       
      #30 Lavendre, Jul 26, 2008
    11. I'm pretty androgynous myself, and I definitely am more attracted towards androgynous boys than overly girly boys. But then I adore girly girls just as much as I like androgynous girls.

      I dunno. I guess I just draw the line somewhere. For me, how attractive it is really depends on how it's all presented and how well it fits with the character's personality.
       
      #31 junkies promise, Jul 26, 2008
    12. If I don't put a just little effort into looking a bit feminine I am pretty androgynous looking. I've been mistaken as a guy before (albeit a small, very femmy looking one). I'd say I'm probably just a little on the girl side in appearance. My brother looks more like a bishie boy, so he's fairly androgynous as well but just a bit on the boys side as far as looks go. My sister is obviously female, nothing else.

      I admit to being attracted to people who are a bit more androgynous in appearance (though my boyfriend is obviously male lol). My favorite doll (toshi: cp el) reflects this. (and supposedly we look alot alike somehow? it disturbs my mom but I don't get it).

      Growing up was a bit tough because I was around girls who, even when little, looked like girls. Next to them I was always out of place. I was a little taller (but not any larger, just as skinny as them if not thinner) but I didn't look quite as 'cute' in that adorable girly way.
      Next to boys I looked like a girl. I was (for the most part) smaller, thinner, cuter, etc...
      when I got a bit older people would even tease me for it.
      (I'm over those issues now :) )

      So my point is:
      I like my androgynous boy because I can relate to him. I feel comfortable around other people who are androgynous because it feels like I fit in to some degree.
      I can relate to the androgynous dolls in ways I never could with other dolls (barbie, GI joe, etc)

      In regards to adult/child face/body combos:
      one of the biggest problems I had with my volks girl had to do with this (to a degree). I couldn't get over how young she looked. Even with a more mature faceup her body was so childish. And when I put her by my other dolls it just made things worse.

      The idea of a head not matching a body as far as maturity/detailing goes is not a pleasant one to me. I can't, at this point, picture a circumstance where i'd buy a doll that had this problem.
       
      #32 eleniel, Jul 26, 2008
    13. actually I've found that I cannot find an androgynous doll body at all for SD size, and it drives me rather nuts. The face scupts sure, bodies heck no
       
      #33 eva_tsukino, Jul 26, 2008
    14. I think you may be generalizing given that a lot of the newer dolls coming out are more realistic and therefore generally less androgynous looking.
      I equate the childlike cute "anime" featured dolls with Japanese comics or cartoons and just figure they are liked by people who like that stuff. I will occasionally like one but it's not really my thing.
      Regarding the more realistically androgynous dolls, such as some of Soom and Dollshe's sculpts, that type of androgyny - where someone is recognizably one gender but has certain characteristics of the other - has been part of the modern landscape ever since the 1960s at least, when you started getting a lot of pretty boys and pretty girls who had long hair and unisex fashions and people complained you couldn't tell the sexes apart. Since it is what I grew up with, having been born in the 60s, it's very natural to like it and it's more or less persisted to some degree, especially in popular music.

      Also, I like people who by my standards are pretty. This is not the cute J-rock/anime standard nor is it the fashion industry beauty queen standard, but my standard. However, if you are pretty by my standards I don't much care or notice if you're a male or female. It's really irrelevant.
       
      #34 bunnydots, Jul 26, 2008


    15. Androgyny is one of my most absolute favorite topics, but I find that a lot of people
      tend to misunderstand/hate the term, or have wrong conceptions of the same. As I was
      growing up, my parents were pretty free-spirited about things, particularly about what
      defines a gender. I loved toys intended for boys, and boy's clothing, and they didn't
      mind my "eccentricity" as a child. I've also been known for giving pink clothes to friends/family
      who have baby-boys. XD Personally, I find the mysteriousness that comes with androgyny to
      be the most appealing -- sort of like a game trying to decipher someone's gender. Some people
      don't like that, however, and feel the need to criticize or condemn people/dolls that tend to be
      androgynous. I think that's why some people like saying that certain androgynous characters/people/dolls,
      are "gay" (Final Fantasy characters for example), because they don't like the idea of feeling
      attracted towards a being that might ultimately be their same sex. That of course, deals with
      a whole other issue about sexuality, I like to think of androgyny as more of an aesthetics
      topic, than as sexuality issue (but then again I don't believe in cross-dressing, I think clothes/colors/roles,
      should be gender-less).

      I like androgyny because of its mysteriousness, and sociological contradictions. I don't believe it
      has to do with people looking young/old, pretty/ugly, I think it's more of blurring the boundaries establish
      by certain societies, which determine what certain genders can, and cannot do. Another reason why
      I love androgyny in dolls (people/or other), is because it bends the so called "gender-roles," which I find
      limiting/suppressing, and as a creative person, I don't like limits.

      (Interesting topic!)


      - Enzyme ^_________^
       
      #35 Enzyme, Jul 26, 2008
    16. I have to admit, the very childlike faces that some mature-bodied girl dolls come with do occasionally make me raise an eyebrow. It's more a matter of my brain having a bit of a disconnect over what age group to put them in than any value judgement about what is or isn't "appropriate", though... They just confuse my mental sorting system, if that makes any sense. :lol:

      Personally, though, I do love the pretty-boy types. Looking around at my own collection, that's more than obvious.

      My guys honestly don't look like girls to me, though... Even the ones who are dressed or face-upped in a more "girly" way, like D (a Yder-) or Crane (an El-), still maintain at least the shreads of maleness. They may have eyelashes a model would kill for, a better wardrobe than mine and entirely too much hair... but they're still not girls.

      My 1/3-scale Delfs don't look like children to me, either. With the exception of the Elf Chiwoo (Who really does look like he's about twelve-), I have no problem at all judging my Delf's boys' ages at anything from 18 to 30, depending on how they're dressed and how they're painted. I have no problem taking any of these guys seriously as the avatars for adult characters. 'Not even the bishiest of the bishie-boys. None of them trigger that mental disconnect that some of the child-faced girls cause...
       
      #36 Brightfires, Jul 26, 2008
    17. Hn... this interests me. Androgyny has never been a boolean term to me. It comes in degrees. Certainly, when you look at the Obitsu girls, with their cantaloupe breasts, or the Bishounen House boys, with their angles and veins, neither of those is very androgynous, but if you look at, say, the Lutz Moon boys or the Dollzone Girl Celine then I, personally, find those both to be relatively androgynous.
       
      #37 Leishu, Jul 26, 2008
    18. Moons? Really? In my experience, they're easily the most readily identified as male sculpts that CP has produced. My own, Amber, is the only doll in this collection that's never been mistaken for a female doll. o_O

      Yders are actually the ones I'd nominate for "hardest to gender-type". They share a lot of features with the female sculpts, including the large eyes.
       
      #38 Brightfires, Jul 26, 2008
    19. *gentle cough* I freely admit that I might be a bad judge of male androgyny. I don't tend to look at much rather than the face, abs, and hands, and sometimes the back. Being a very, very adrogynous male myself, well, I tend to overassume. ^^:
       
      #39 Leishu, Jul 26, 2008
    20. [chuckles] My eye is probably biased, too... Like I said, I'm fond of the bishie-types, so I've gotten used to looking for certain clues when it comes to picking out the girls from the guys. I don't have any difficulty IDing male dolls, but no one outside of the hobby who's ever seen Anhju (one of my Elf Yders-) has ever gotten it right.

      Amber they never seem to have trouble with. :lol:
       
      #40 Brightfires, Jul 26, 2008
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