Dolly androgyny -why do we like it?

Same here!!

although, i make no effort to be a girly girl. it doesn't suit me. i look like a drag queen if i wear feminine clothing, unless it's smart formal stuff. when i was at school, a lot of people disliked me because they had trouble telling what gender i was.

i also think a lot of people (especially men) in my area (that is, i mean where i live, NOT EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD) are 'frightened' of anything OUTSIDE of heterosexuality, so they automatically slam the banhammer down on anyone who looks remotely 'homosexual' to them. i had a lot of trouble, and by trouble, i mean severe bullying, because of my appearance.

i can associate with androgynous dolls. they're special because they're beautiful without having to fit into a category. it doesn't matter what they're wearing. the whole thing about dolls being connected to jrock, well, that is very true, but then there are also a hell of a lot of people who don't have anythng whatsoever to do with jrock. plus the fact that jrock is japanese and most dolls are korean...don't know if that makes any different lol

 

I don't know. I don't think either of my dolls are all that androgynous. Sid is a Sprite with colors and skirts and Aspen is a Ruth with boyish cut hair and jeans and flannel...

as for androgyny as a whole, I'm attracted to androgynous people IRL (hooray bisexualism) so I suppose it's only natural for me to find androgynous dolls beautiful as well.

I, however, don't like immature faces on mature bodies. It freaks me out. The whole sexualization of youth is really disturbing to me.

 

Oh it's a part of many cultures over many hundreds or thousands of years, at least -- I think even our much-lauded 'founding fathers' might have been villified in 1950's USA for wearing long hair, frilly shirts, and shape-revealing hose and breeches.

One of Shakespeare's recurring themes, that really got at a basic truth about human existence, is that "clothes make the man." Well yes, think about it. When we're very young, before we get those wonderful "secondary sexual traits", the only way to know gender for many of us is what our parents dress us in. When we get very old, we again approach the middle... men and women both lose some degree of the primary hormones that make us gender-specific ... we all tend to get fat deposits in similar areas, our hair thins, and if women wear their hair very short they can indeed be mistaken for men, depending on clothing.

Given that, it makes a lot of sense that we would be attracted to dolls that can pull off "elegant" no matter what style of clothing or hair we choose for them. Elegant, or rough, or rugged, or whatever.

There are some molds that are just inescapably male or female, and I like those too. (It's a little hard picturing Ark or Jace as a girl, no matter how I bend my brain). But it's a better bet for the dolls to strike a sort of middle ground, at least in head mold, so that they can pull off whatever style.

I hope that made sense. I should never try to think before taking in enough coffee in the morning

 

I don't go for androgynous dolls as a rule, although I am always intrigued by teh pretteh.

However, my life partner is about as androgynous as they come. So, go fig.

And the entire time I'm reading this thread I'm hearing Garbage's "Androgyny" in my head...hehe.

For those who have never seen the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I2S_29IbuM

I love it so much, it's so 1980s. XD

 

What about the Volks Tenshi Family? Big ones, mini ones, tiny ones. The big SD13 & SD10 sized ones are pretty cool-- not only do they have no breasts and nothing between the legs-- but they also have the faintest suggestion of little breast-buds, and a very slight flare to the hips, that contrasts with their strong shoulders & boyish limbs. They nicely avoid going too far into one gender or the other; you really get that Celestially Undeveloped kind of holy-androgyne vibe from them. And the faces (Sakaki, Kikyou, et al.) are pretty perfectly two-way, too.

Souldoll Celestyn had a big round bubble-butt, long skinny limbs, a sharp little boyish pigeon-chest, no breasts, indeterminate hips, and nothing between the legs. (S/he was a forest-critter who came with vines sculpted all down one side!) It was a lovely and unusual body, and they only did one release of that one asexual doll.

But then again... 'asexual' isn't the same as 'androgynous', either. Kind of the opposite; the whole root of the word means that they've got traits of both sexes (not neither). In popular usage, I suppose people use 'androgyne' when they mean 'sexless', just because it means they still can't pigeonhole the person one way or the other. And you know how people love their pigeonholes! Like the way 'feminine' is always misused when people mean 'effeminate' (i.e. all tomboys are feminine, by definition, but not many of them are very effeminate).

 

I do find androgyny rather attractive in dolls, particularly the "pretty boy" look. I think it's because I like pretty things, and I find long beautiful hair, delicate features, and soft flowing garments to be "prettier" than short hair, rugged features, and more utilitarian clothes. Given this, its not surprising that I have more girl dolls than boys! Though I do want to have a couple of boys, and one of them at least will be fairly androgenous because it is more fun to dress a doll when you can chose either "feminine" or "masculine" styles and both will look good.

Personally, with dolls, I find androgyny in male dolls more attractive than in female dolls, simply due to the above-mentioned clothing issues that come with (my/American) current culture. Girls in suits look cute or sexy. Guys in ballgowns generally don't -- at least not if they are manly looking men! That's not to say I don't appreciate a distinctly male or distinctly female doll's attractiveness; my girls are girly and my boy looks the part. But I do like versatility. ^_~

 

I find it funny how several people who posted said they didn't feel their boys were androgynous or that they didn't like it, however, looking at their doll families, many of the boys listed would fit into that category? Maybe in the BJD community, they would seem less androgynous and easily identified as a male or a female by anyone familiar with them. But outside of the hobby... That's a different story.

So my question would be, don't most people who are interested in this hobby also have an interest in androgyny to a degree?

I don't mean to cause offense by this question, but look at it from -outside of the BJD box-.

In general, people who are not familiar with anime types of art or with any dollie hobbies will generally -always- think that these dolls are girls regardless of their hairstyle or how they are dressed. My co-workers, for example, were not aware of this hobby until I showed them. I showed some pics from sites. They were convinced that -every- guy was a female, regardless of how their body type. The sculpts for faces can generally seem very feminine. Males (real ones) have the tendency to think that all of these dolls are girls and refuse to accept otherwise if they are not used to seeing anime or other dolls.

So are we looking at androgyny from only within the BJD community where the lines between female and male are easier to define for us, or are we looking at it from a more out of the box perspective where as, truly, they are defined by their androgyny.

To answer the question of the thread -- Dolly androgyny, why do we like it? -- Because that's what makes the dolls how they are. It is the very characteristic of most BJDs to be androgynous.

 

*another vote for a tida-swintion-esque-doll!!*

 

My sister (not a doll person) thought my Dollshe guy was a girl, but I just can't think of him that way, myself. He has pleasing features but does not look effeminate to my eyes, especially compared to my girl dolls. Does he have to be ugly to appear to be masculine? I know lots of guys with fine features who seem very masculine to me. I think it's in the eye (and mind) of the beholder.

 

I think a lot of us are used to seeing these dolls so much, we can easily differentiate between male and female (not always, but usually). Those who are not accustomed to it, generally can't. Your question is interesting though, if they have to be ugly to appear masculine. Maybe in the doll world? I'm not sure, but I do think most male dolls do have very feminine features regardless of how many muscles they have. Just part of being a doll.

 

Personally, I'm a sucker for fantasy, and androgynous dolls represent fantasy creatures such as angels or fairies. Therefore, since I'm fascinated with fantasy and its strange, androgynous creatures, I find it fascinating to have a doll that represents that. Did that make sense at ALL? XD

Now, when it comes to PEOPLE - no, I am not attracted to androgynous people. I don't find them weird or anything, not at all. I just think of it as any other gender - just rarer. But I'm not going to come up to a genderless person and say, "OOOOH! You're androgynous, cool! A fairy!" It's purely a fantasy thing for me, and real androgynous people are definitely NOT angels or fairies.

 

I like a bit of androgyny in boy dolls because I think muscle-bound men and "manly men" and "jocks" are unattractive... it might just be an extension of my suspicions about sporty boys in general because of how I used to be bullied in school...picking on tiny girls is so manly, really... I get nervous and suspicious when I see skateboarders and football players and guys like that because I see almost that entire subset of humans as potential enemies. I'm a bit paranoid like that.

Though... I don't really like androgyny to a point where I need to make a long effort to discern gender. "in touch with his feminine side" not "woman with man parts" @_@

 

I love androgynous women. Women in suits, with short hair-cuts, muscle-bound tough women with scars, women with boyish faces wearing boyish clothes. I'm a sucker for all of them. But androgynous men? Not so much.

I definitely used to be one of those yaoi fangirls who lost her damn mind over an effeminate man, but seeing it so much in just about every hobby I've involved in has made me lose my taste for it, and don't even get me started on the cutesy girly boys. I just don't find the idea of a man that's basically a teenage girl with a penis and no breasts remotely attractive. I think it also has to do with how my taste in real men has changed - I don't want a man that's scrawnier or prettier than I am. I like muscles and I LOVE scruffy faces. When was the last time you saw an anime pretty boy with a five o'clock shadow? I won't begrudge anyone's sparkling pink skirtboy - I just won't be looking at it, and that works out just fine for the both of us.

I don't quite get why I prefer one but not the other. I suppose if mannish women were as popular as girly boys (and had the same ratio of obnoxious fans) I'd dislike them too. XD

ETA: I forgot to spaz all over the awesomeness that is Tilda Swinton. 333

 

oh wow, besides my gf, i think you're the only person who i've ever heard say something like that. awesome!

i think what Shasta said is quite interesting.

i never really quite understood what women's and teenage girl's fascinations are with yaoi. i admit i'm a culprit myself, but i don't understand why. i think ladyboy dolls reflect that on a whole.

i've yet to see an actual hermaphrodite doll. i wonder what that would look like.

 

My girl is a total girly-girl and looks like it. My boy looks like a boy, but he also looks bashful and shy. I don't mind the doll androgyny, I might not even notice it, having watched so many animes. "Bishounen" has become a staple word, jokingly, among my friends and I.

Maybe the androgyny is liked because a lot of westerners have been raised with the idea of "This is What Manly Men Look Like": short, cropped hair, broad chest, tall, and beefy. After a while, it becomes generic looking, and maybe even boring. If you see it all the time, what makes it special?

Not to say this is bad, it isn't! But if it's common place, some people might look for something that's unique to them. All the man dolls I grew up with looked like Ken and it bored me. So maybe because of this, androgynous dolls are appealing. They're different.

 

As Rupaul once said: We are all born naked. Everything after that is just drag.

 

I agree with this, except in the opposite direction. XD;; For me, effeminate males has become generic-looking and boring, at least in this hobby. They're no longer special, because everyone has one, everyone loves them, you see them everywhere, all the time. Anyway, that's just me... I've personally become bored with it, but obviously other people haven't. In this hobby, the Western ideal male is what's rarely seen, although this is being helped by dollmakers creating beefier male bodies, like the Dollstown 15 boy or SD17 bodies. I'm STILL waiting, however, for someone to release a muscular female body sculpt. A want a chick with a six-pack, plz! XD

Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm actually a yaoi fan. I just avoid certain artists/stories. ^^;