Dolly Cross-Dressing

@ HoushiChan - I have a question, if you don't mind my asking. I couldn't help but notice you only mentioned males crossdressing-- if a female doll were made up to look like they weren't wearing any makeup (like, a natural face, not blank doll head) and wearing "men's" clothing (so, I suppose maybe a men's suit, or maybe just pants in general, since you mentioned possibly being considered old fashioned?) would you find that iffy as well?
I just find that you didn't mention women at all interesting, as if you're not a fan of crossdressing (you said yourself you don't think dolls should be crossdressed) it seems like a double standard if it doesn't go both ways. (In which case I have to ask: what's so bad about looking like a woman?)

Hope you don't think I'm being rude, I'm just sincerely curious about how you feel about the other side of the coin, so to speak. c:

 

OK, I'll skip the obvious slam here, and just grant that your personal comfort-zones are where they are. Fine. But do I understand this correctly? -- The doll needs to have the correct MOTIVE (and also have it be visible to the naked eye) before it's "OK" for him/her to be seen crossdressing?

I'm not really sure how anyone could think that they could possibly judge that, at-a-glance. I've got this fetish-queen doll who doesn't want to be a woman; he's perfectly aware that he's all man, & is content to be so, but he's just really in love with his feminine side. If you saw a picture of him in his favorite leather merrywidow and fishnet thigh-highs, how could you judge WHY he was dressed that way? Would you automatically assume that it's because he truly wants to be a woman?

Which motives would be "OK", anyway? Halloween/comedy only?

And I know I'm a few months late to the party, & I know I granted that everyone's boundaries are where they are-- but I'm also fascinated as to why you singled out "no lipstick" as the bright-line rule for what constitutes a crossdressed/trans boy doll. Eye-makeup is no problem, clothing is Maybe, but lipstick is right out?... It's like reading an anthropology textbook, for me, I mean I get this grotesque fascination hearing about what the view is like from the other side of Reality's looking-glass. Doesn't sound like we'll get any answers Why, at this point, but I'm still interested.

... In this particular case, I'm gonna venture waaaay out on a limb and guess No.

 

I love this forum. As soon as there's even a squeak (or more than a squeak in this case) of narrow-minded irrational bigotry the world and her doll rushes to condemn it. Perhaps if everyone in the real world bought a BJD and started cross-dressing it, freedom would prosper, democracy would flourish, and equality and tolerance would rule supreme. I'm going to start distributing all the SD-scale fishnet stockings I can find, as a way to start the revolution.

JennyNemesis: Don'tcha know lipstick is the beginning of the slippery slope to "iffy"-ness? And the last thing we all want is to be labelled "iffy", isn't it? Heaven forfend!

 

I wonder if there are fishnet stockings big enough to fit an Idealian. I think my big ass resin dude would look fab in a pair of those.

 

You could probably make a pair yourself... I have some thin net waiting to be turned intostockings lying around...

And now as a general reply and take on the matter. To begin with there is absolutely nothing wrong with underage crossdressers. Some people realize their identity early on and it's not uncommon to 'role-play' the opposite gender in that case (boys trying on they're mother's/sister's clothes and makeup, girls doing the same with their father's/brothers and cutting their hair short) especially in their earlier years.

There is no 'going too far' with crossdressing; and it should be noted that an effeminate face-up is NOT crossdressing. A lot of prefectly straight boys wear tons of makeup. It also depends on the character of the doll. Are they simply effeminate or transgendered? Or do they perhaps crossdress for an entirely different story-related or otherwise reason? I have one prime example of this among my crew; Yui, who is the host of a prideful demon who'd sooner die than be seen in a skirt -during most circumstances- so crossdressing is the way his siblings figured in order to keep him in check.

That all being said, of course it's not wrong to post pictures of crossdressing dolls. They're beautiful as they are so it'd be a shame not to share them with others like photos of -let's humor the term for the sake of the discussion- "normal" dolls.

 

@Nihmo, yes please more Idealians in fishnets!

 

In the end, this entire "debate" comes back to, "It's Your Doll, Do what You Want With It." I don't see that it's all that much of a debate.

 

Maybe a 'how-to' would be more useful/fun than 'should/shouldn't you.'

'CAUSE CROSS-DRESSING A BOY IS HARD! They just don't make many clothes that are super fem but will fit a male doll. I've made a couple things of my own but I suck at it. I'm going to commission some pretty things around DoA. Seems to be the best way to go about it. I did try the 'fingerless glove' method, and found a sexy pair at Clarie's. But they are way too small to fit a broad model-size Dollmore boy. =(

 

I do not see cross-dressing as unusual or alarming and I wouldn't make a judgement call on someone who enjoys gender bending. Personally, I do not think of myself as a woman first, I think of myself as a person first and then a woman. Our clothing is merely a statement or a reflection of how we would like to be perceived. We can take whatever perceptions we want to take with our dolls and that is the fun part of it. I fail to see the harm in it.

 

I don't have a problem with cross-dressing or gender bending of any kind in humans... so I wouldn't have any issue with a doll cross-dressing as well.

 

a] Absolutely not. Back in the day, fem girls would wear overalls in the country, and even bigger shirts when raised with their papas. In general, children I feel like are a bit gender neutral in that sense. Ive seen boys dressed in pink, now irl. Dresses on little boys would cause for concern back then and sometimes even now. But honestly, I don't think its wrong because its a model. Just because it has the bits doesn't mean its alive/irl. I still think dressing little boys in dresses would be cute but thats just me.

b] I believe it works on both sides, I mean you can go as far as you want because of creative artistic license. That's that. But where males vs females clothes and dolls. I think its up for how more laughs, love and else you get from the doll dressing that way. :3.

c] Again no, if someone has a problem with it, they don't have to see it. But make sure you notify somewhere what the picture is about. This is to avoid too much drama honestly. Always title before picture. If they don't like it they can click another link they do like. All about the choices..

 

A.) Again, it’s all about context. There is a huge difference dressing a child-like doll in say a dress and just having them look feminine, and dressing a child-like doll in say lingerie and having them pose provocatively. For example, my doll Connor has a boy body, but dresses in female clothing, wigs, etc. I take pictures of him completely dressed up, but I would NEVER EVER post pictures of little Connor in say only his panties.

B.) I agree that it depends completely on the character intended for the doll. My latest boy Albin will be coming in the mail; his head and body are both from Dollzone, but his body will be male and his head is the mold for Nina in order to allow the right style and feminine features for the character.

C.) So long as they are appropriate to the doll character’s age, I don’t think there is anything wrong with posting pictures.

 

a) I must admit, I really don't see the issue with cross-dressing, or how it is such a big deal.
As some have written, it depends on the context; having the dolls fully covered is fine, but to refer to the person above, having a child or childish doll dress in lingerie is not so fine. But does it really matter what gender the lingerie, in this case, is aimed at? I mean, having a young boy-doll dress in girl lingerie and pose provocatively; isn't that just as bad as having that same boy-doll dress in boxers and pose provocatively? For girls it will probably be more of an issue if they wear boy-boxers, and thus drops the bra, and poses erotically, but it seems like this debate is generally more focused on the boys.
Once the doll is 16 though, I wouldn't mind about the lingerie stuff either (after all, it may be a part of a photo story. The age of consent is 16 over here, so that's where the line is drawn for me).

b) What you do is entirely up to you. As mentioned, I can't fathom how cross-dressing is such a big issue, and it's, after all, your doll.

c) Isn't posting pictures much of the point? As long as they're age appropriate, or posted the right place with a warning, you can post pretty much whichever cross-dressing pictures you want, for all I care. I don't mind if someone wants to make some shotaish or loli-ish cross-dressing pictures of dolls, so long as they're posted somewhere appropriate (not DoA, obviously), with the right warnings. I'm liberal there; as long as no living being was harmed/harrassed etc. in the process of making the pictures/stories etc., I'm all right with it.

 

My motto is "as long as it doesn't hurt a person, you can be whatever you want to be" this applies to everything: gay, transsexual, transgender, crossdressers and all those things society is against of. I would only object of drug addicts, for example, because those people are not only hurting themselves (even though they don't realize it until it's too late) but they're also hurting everyone who loves them.

Also, if I don't like people judging who I am or the things I like, then I have no right to do the same thing to them. However, when it comes to what I would do, it's a different matter. I would never crossdress my boys because I respect their characters and they are straight boys with no interest in anything feminine. I wouldn't like to have a crossdresser character either because I just don't like it and dolls are mine and I create the characters...it's not the same with real people, you don't create them and you don't control them. Respect should be mutual.

Oh and wearing pink clothes or with cute designs is not crossdressing =D I love pink shirts on boys and my some of them have jackets with little pink hearts which is cute for me^^

I know this post is like 4 years old but

*APPLAUDS* *takes hat off to you!!!*this is something I try to tell the many 'christians' out there who like to point fingers at gay people because Leviticus says it is an abomination, then I asked them, "do you eat shrimp? because shrimp is also referred to as an abomination in 2-3 verses before the verse you love so much so you can hate and judge". And David even wrote a letter after Jonathan's death stating that his love (Jonathan's love for David) was so much better than the love of women, I had to smile there (fan of yaoi here hehe and also a Christian). They just don't care to understand that the old times and the rules are not the same as today, they even ignore the fact where it says that shrimp is an abomination in the old testament but in Romans or Corinthians says another thing and it's not contradicting itself but the times changed and Christ came to destroy all that. They just pick any verse they like and this is how all the 15000+++ christian denominations are born, even though they have the same book, the rules and beliefs differ greatly form one another. We know there's only ONE true, ONE God. That's why I don't even go to Church.

Like I said, no problem and I see nothing wrong with crossdressers. I, for one, hate dresses and I'm a woman...it would be horrible to have people telling me that the way I dress is not appropriate. Again, don't be afraid to show who you are as long as no one gets hurt.

 

I've read a bit of this thread and it's pretty interesting!

Myself, I think that this is the 21st century and people should feel free to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anyone. I don't see how dolly cross-dressing could POSSIBLY hurt anyone, unless that person was extremely sensitive and close-minded, in which case it's the person's own fault and I have no sympathy for them.

One thing that annoys me, though, is whenever I see gay/cross dressing characters dressed entirely in rainbows. Why is it ALWAYS rainbows? I know that the LGBTQ (whatever the abreviation is now, I've lost track since they keep adding letters) flag is a rainbow, but really guys! It's like people think "well I can't think of a good color scheme, but this character is gay so I'll just toss a rainbow on him!" or "I can't think of a good color scheme, so I'll just use ALL OF THEM."
I also think that rainbow themed clothes tend to look garish and horrible, but that's just my taste.

I also think that if someone wants to dress their child-like doll in lingerie and pose them sexually, well... that's not hurting anyone either. At least it's not a real child they're doing that to (though if they ARE doing it to a real child as well, they should go to jail). I won't tell people that they can't do that, but I will think they're squicky for doing it and avoid them.
It's the same when people pair up adult dolls and child dolls and have them do "sexy stuff." I'm not going to tell you not to do it. However, if you do it just don't be surprised when people think you're a freaky pedophile and avoid you.

 

I know this quote is from an old post, but it somehow bugs me:

I wouldn't stop thinking of someone being a transphobic even if they have friends who are transgenders.
That's like saying "This person can't be a racist, because he has friends who are black." It's still possible that people hate homosexuals, transgenders and people of different ethnicities, even if they have friends belonging to these "groups" (as paradox as it sounds, but this people do exist).

I am not saying that everyone who is against cross dressing is transphobic (they might just be too conservative) but there is still the possibility that they are.

I totally agree. It's very cliché and a bad stereotype that people who are gay are all hyperactive, happy rainbow-colored boys. What's even worse is when people seem to apply "gay" characteristics to objects or clothes. Then suddenly a character or doll wearing or having a certain object or dress in a certain colour makes him automatically gay.
Homosexuals are as diverse in their personality, lifestyle and look as people of other orientations.

The only problem I have with dolls cross dressing is that many cross dressing characters are gay. There seems to be a link between cross dressing and being gay in some people's heads. And a lot of users here often mention cross dressing and gay couples in the same sentence, assuming that being gay and trans (or a cross dresser) are somehow connected. But they are not.
Yes, trans people can be gay. But they can also be straight, asexual, bisexual or whatever form of sexual orientation exists. Cross dressing and being trans has nothing to do with sexual orientation. (even though they share their community with gays, lesbians and bisexuals).

I personally would find it really awesome to see more trans characters that are asexual, for example. Of course everyone should do what he likes and I guess the whole "originality" topic belongs to another thread.

 

DarkAsteria, I agree with you wholeheartedly. If someone is going to portray a doll a certain way then they should be doing their homework and getting their facts straight. Avoiding assumptions and stereotypes is important. A study in 2001 found that a majority of cross-dressing males actually identify as straight.. I bet a lot of people aren't aware of that, but should be if that's what they choose for their doll's character.

 

@DarkAsteria - I agree entirely as well. I also hate that people seem to think that cross dressing automatically equals transsexual. Not all people who cross dress are transsexuals. Some just prefer the other sex's clothing, or just like a style and don't care about gender norms. I know a guy who wears dresses all the time (and looks smashing in them, better than I do) and he's neither gay nor transsexual. He just looks amazing in drag and likes to look amazing.

 

They are dolls. You have every right to dress them however you want and post them. There is nothing with cross dressing. If you have issues with people even cross dressing dolls than you are severely transphobic.

 

@chanseong I totally agree to you. I am afraid many people are not interested into the truth and too lazy to make a proper research and educate themselves. Many people are comfortable enough to apply the stereotypes they know from the media (TV, movies, newspapers) to their dolls. And cross dressing is still seen as weird, perverted and amoral and therefore often thrown into the same field as sexual orientation (many still see other orientations than heterosexuality as unnatural and bad).
Maybe tkhe doll owners unconsciously connect being a cross dresser with being strange and link that to being gay (which is often connected with being queer and strange too). Or it is derived from the typical yaoi/boys's love cliché of the girly young boy falling in love with the masculine guy because he already acts like his "wife"...


@Quetz Yes, you are right. Cross dressing doesn't always equal transsexuality. In fact it is often impossible to tell what sexuality or gender identitity cross dressers have unless you find out more about them and this topic in general is more complex than many think. I say "cross dressing and trans people" mainly because transsexuals also "cross dress" (but not all cross dressers are trans). But I have also to admit that it is hard to say if it's cross dressing for them though as for many trans people, different from cis-gendered cross dressers, the act of transforming and dressing as a certain gender is not a costume or lifestyle but their real self and identity.
I honestyl agree that I also have to learn more about it. And the linkage between cross dressing as a whole and transsexuality is a mistake I often do- but I guess this is also happening because I am influenced by the views of the media too. And they sadly don't inform us people with true facts about cross dressing but serve us a rather spectacular and cliché version of it. I hope the time will come when society learns more about it so we can stop with the ignorance and stereotyping.

And you have a point in saying that your friend doesn't care about gender norms. I think this is a keypoint in choosing that lifestyle. Our society is really strict on gender norms, even today in the 21st century there are those stupid classifications of a "typical woman" or a "typical man". But in reality there is no such a thing as a real woman or a real man. What we classify as female or male is a construct created by society mostly with the intentions to show the differences between both sexes and to cover up that we are all humans of the same kind yet with unique identities and personalities. I often hear stuff like "real women dress nicely" or "real men don't wear make up" and it makes me really angry.

Cross dressing is really a great field. It can help trans people to be themselves or how they really identify themselves as. But it also can be a lifestyle, used for performing (in theater for example), fashion, hobby or even art. People have numerous reasons to do it and everyone can do it regardless of their sex, gender, sexual orientation or age. And let's be honest: clothes are just clothes. I am sure God (if he would exist... I am not a religious person) or mother nature didn't say to people "dresses, long hair, make up and skirts are for women only".

And yeah, a lot of cross dressers were or are straight cis-people. This especially counts for those who perform it for artistic purposes. Glam, Punk and the japanese visual kei scene are full of androgynous and cross dressing men and women. There is just such a certain thing or aesthetic about it. I can't describe what it is but I like men who cross dress or women in suits (Marlene Dietrich is a wonderful example. She even played male roles in movies).