DON'T Call Them "Toys."

(Note: I only read the first and 7th page of the thread, I'm at work and wanted to post before I ran out of time)

I'd only be irritated if it was said in a deliberately derogatory manner, but that goes for everything not just calling them 'toys'. If it's someone who genuinely doesn't know anything about them then... well... c'mon, be reasonable, they're not psychic...

In any case, I do consider them toys. Expensive, fragile toys, but toys nonetheless.

Taken from dictionary.com (I have omitted the irrelevant definitions)

toy   /tɔɪ/ Show Spelled[toi] Show IPA
–noun
1.an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
3.something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious pratical use.
5.something diminutive, esp. in comparison with like objects.

I think 'toy' is fairly accurate really They're not toys like you would give to children, by any means, but I'd say that's exactly what they are.

I'd be interested to hear specific reasons as to why people think they're not toys actually. Just out of curiosity - is it the expense? The fragility? I know how I feel about it, but I want to understand the other side too.

The only other thing I'd consider them to be could be models, and that's only because gundams are considered 'models' and they have points of articulation, which would have been the defining factor for me had I not remembered them I think there are other things too. Maybe 'art' if you stick them in a display case and never touch them, but if you do play with them in any way, be it through customisation or through physical interaction, they're definitely toys, in my opinion.

 

My mom said it in a derogatory manner once before Christmas. As many people here might know, I only take Emma outside of my room at night when my parents sleep, because they think I was silly to be spending $350 on a doll. Thus, I block the criticism by not giving them ammo.

I don't exactly remember why I brought her out while my parents were up, but I kept her out with me on the couch. Later on, when my mom was trying to move her (untrained in BJD holding skills) I came over, and she said "Is that doll your best friend, now?" in a derogatory tone.

I was mad, but more freaked out due to the fact that she works in a place where she tends to get dye on her hands from some of the equipment. Sure enough, some of that did get on my doll (all but one stain was easily tended to with a wet finger, and that I just got around to using a Magic Eraser on because it was under her foot).

 

Frankly, it doesn't bother me because to people outside the fandom, they ARE toys. No matter how much we may look at them and go 'work of art! Perfection!' Someone outside the fandom is likely to go 'Myeh. Barbie. Big Barbie.' or 'Looks like my grandmother's shelves.' But how well do we understand THEIR hobbies? Ex: Have you ever said 'You paid WHAT for a single meal?!' to a foodie or 'How could you spend that much for colored contacts?!' to a cosplayer? :P

 

I have to agree with you. I always get mad at my friends when they see me cleaning or doing something with my dolls. They look at me and just say "They are just toys" then I go and tell them "Well [insert something] is just a toy as well"

We get in a big debate about it and I usually end up mad. Because lets face it these dolls in my eyes are not toys by no means.

 

It makes things worse when they sneer at you and tell you they are 'Girls toys...'

Yup Male here....

 

I play with my dolls. To me they're toys. ....really expensive toys... *^*

 

Hmm... it depends are you using this definition:"something a child plays with "then I definitely think it's out of ignorance to call a bjd a child's play thing. However, a bjd by this definition of Toy is a toy:" something that an adult buys or uses for enjoyment or entertainment, An object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with." Definition of play "exercise or activity for amusement or recreation." I think people misunderstand the hobby, many people think it's something people should have "grown out of" but to me it's art you can play with, and you can never be to old for art. So just ignore them

 

It really irks me too, but I realize that they are just, toys. I hate to call them that, but that's just what they are.

 

I couldn't care less if someone refers to my dolls as toys. As was pointed out a few posts above, the definition of the word fits. And I don't feel the least bit defensive about my doll hobby. I don't care who knows I have them, I don't try to hide it, and I don't feel embarrassed about it. I don't need to justify them as SUPER SERIOUS WORKS OF ART THAT ARE ONLY FOR ADULTS WHO HAVE BEEN INITIATED INTO THEIR MYSTERIES AND DEFINITELY NOT FOR KIDS OR PLAYING so I can be not-embarrassed about playing with them. I mean, come on...They're miniature people that I make stuff for and dress up and set up in little scenes. For fun. Sounds like a toy to me!

 

Personally, it doesn't bother me. Most people I know don't call dolls toys, maybe they call action figures 'toys', but not dolls or stuffed animals. Even if they did, I mean...they are objects that I buy and play with so...to me, they kind of are like toys. Nice, expensive, fun, toys that aren't shitty factory gross that most kid's toys are. It's the same as if you see a kid playing with a bunch of hot wheels and saying 'he's playing with his collectables' instead of 'toys'. They are toys but can be called collectables and still apply. Bjds are collectables that can be called toys and still apply.

That's just how I see it anyway.

 

Ehryn said: toy   /tɔɪ/ Show Spelled[toi] Show IPA
–noun
1.an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
3.something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious pratical use.
5.something diminutive, esp. in comparison with like objects.

Definition #3 basically explains WHY I get furious about people insisting that collectibles are toys. BJDs fit the literal meaning of the last part of this definition, and in fact since 'toy' in that sense is referring to a usage such as 'toy poodle' it's not really applicable.
The use of the word 'toy' in a metaphorical sense, such as referring to an expensive car as 'my hubby's [sic] toy' would fit a BJD but also just many other things that in actual fact aren't toys - but are being USED as toys somehow. ANYTHING can be played with. BJDs are not made to be trifling playthings but more as art objects. I expect that so many of the people who want to call them toys, playthings, etc (ie call them useless) feel somehow ashamed of their interest in them.
Let me put this another way - would you call an artist's canvas a plaything? Maybe you might do so - said artist can 'play' w/it, using all sorts of medium. But I'd say you would be hard-pressed to find an artist who would not be insulted by that phrase.
I have nothing against play, or using playground, plaything as metaphor. I do have a lot against anyone demeaning interest in these dolls, or in (for instance) manga & graphic novels (calling them 'comics' demeans them in the eyes of the public rather than the artists BTW).
So if someone calls their BJDs playthings in the same sense that my nextdoor neighbor calls her Corvette one, well fine. But I don't think it helps the image of these dolls in the public eye so I myself refrain.
AND anyone acting like these dolls, or creative expression in general, is somehow TRIVIAL, that makes my blood boil.

 

This hasn't happened to me before, the closest thing is my mom saying I am playing with my dollie. I don't really care if people call my doll a toy, I think what would matter is the tone of voice they are using. In this case I wouldn't say anything, though I might be a bit peeved.

 

If someone just doesn't realize that they are expensive and calls them toys, I don't have a problem with that. My dad calls his Chevy Camaro his "toy", so I don't mind it if people refer to my BJDs as my toys If someone said it in a mean way, it really wouldn't matter what they said or called them, they are just trying to be mean.

 

A toy is a plaything, a source of pleasure or amusement for man, woman, or child. So to answer to your question, the use of the word "toy" doesn't bother me. I have my dolls and hubby has his tractor.

However, if the tone of voice your suggesting was used, it probably would bother me. I would consider the person to be both rude and ignorant, and certainly not worth responding to!

 

I tend to refrain from calling my BJDs toys in the general sense specifically because of the imagery that is usually attached to the word. When I'm describing my hobby to coworkers or friends, calling them 'toys' usually equals something similar to 'plastic barbie'. Mostly I just say it's something you have to see to understand. But even if I am holding my doll in my hands and showing them off to someone I still avoid calling them a 'toy' because apparently that's pretty much inviting people to try snatching one out of my hands to see him better and getting mad at me when I freak out about them touching a doll without my permission(I don't know where their hands have been and what dirt could be smudged all over an outfit or faceup, and I'm a bit of a germ-a-phobe). Then I have to re-iterate everything I just explained and emphasis the point where I consider them my very expensive portable canvas children and they are NOT FOR MANHANDLING. But if you ask nicely and I tell you what you are not to lay fingers on when holding them(and when people actually respect these boundaries and don't run their sharply manicured nails all over my boy's two day old face-up), then I have no issues with someone holding a doll under my supervision.

If comparing the doll as a toy like an expensive car, that's usually how I have to get my point across to the close minded. (Manicured nails, would you like me to trail my keys all over your nice newly painted Ferrari?)

Otherwise I get the condescending tone all the time from my mom and my grandmother. My mom has warmed up because 1. the dolls freak her out and she knows I will make one stare at her if she tries to press the issue, and 2. she's seen all the artistic things I do with them and now appreciates them as more than an "over-priced child's plaything".

My grandmother, not so much. Although it's kind of less in 'toy' sense and more in a 'you're crazy' sense? She likes to taunt me when I set them up for photos or try to get them to hold a certain pose so I can sketch. "You know they're not real, right?" "Do you treat them like your babies?" "You'll never get the chance for real babies if you keep playing with toys" "I just don't want you to forget about reality, you want to get married someday, right?" I could go on.

As a matter of fact, I have no interest in marriage or children whatsoever!(not that there's anything wrong with them, but they are not for me). But she can't take a hint and is determined that the dolls are forcing me "to have a disconnect with reality", as in I live in la-la land where nobody grows up and I don't have the sanity to take care of myself. I fear more people than just her cannot 'disconnect' the doll from the 'toy' image that they seem to conjure in closed minds.

So yes, for me, calling them "toys" is a quick way to get on my hit list, sadly whether or not it is intentional(I try to reign myself in from a rant when someone calls them a toy in curiosity, but depending on the rest of their questions this doesn't always work). But I refuse to hide my dolls away because of what other people think. I have carried them around in public to use as a size reference for something that may work as an outfit or accessory(there's a shop in the MoA that has miniature instruments~ ), and luckily there are more positive reactions than negative. But that doesn't make the negative ones any less annoying.

"Enjoy the compliments you receive, forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how!"

 

It wouldn't bother me. I think it's a bit ignorant but I don't expect people to know about my specific hobby.
I'm sure I can insult people with my ignorance of things they like as well :S

 

A doll is a type of toy regardless of how expensive it may be. I class my BJD's as collectable toys even though I don't personally play with mine. If someone spoke to me like that i'd simply reply "What of it"? It wouldn't make me mad, if they get a negative reaction from you they know they have been successful at bothering you. Why would I let it bother me, I can collect exactly what I want? I'm realistic enough to know that many people aren't interested in dolls/toys but if they are nasty about it I know it's their problem not mine. People like this are often boring, narrow-minded individuals, yawn I won't rise to the bait.

 

I don't really care. People also refer to sports cars as expensive toys, so it's whatever. I do play with my dolls, the same way I played with Barbies and Bratz as a teen. These dolls are just a lot more detailed, artistic and customizable. They're an art toy, sort of.

If people are using 'toy' in a derogatory way, I mostly ignore them. If they don't respect me, I don't really care about their opinion anyway. Why should I let someone who doesn't even respect me as a person control my emotions and how I feel about my hobby?

 

I honestly don't care if people think of my BJD as 'toys'. That's how I think of them; toys for adults. Just because they're artistic, that doesn't make them any less of a plaything. I play with them and, in my opinion, that makes them toys by definition. Really, I think some people are far too sensitive about this issue. I think that unless someone is intentionally using 'toys' as a slur against a BJD collector, then it's not that big of a deal.

 

I don't mind too much personally! Even when it's used in a derogatory context I think I've grown desensitised by people commenting on my spending money on "pixels" when I buy art or digital goods. Some people get it and some don't.

As other people've mentioned, toys isn't necessarily a derogatory term though! You could think of BJDs as an expensive, artisanal toy, just like thinking of any other expensive collectible as toys.