Face-up Brand Picky: What do you think?

I'm a faceup artist, and while I don't have this policy for my own work I can see why others would. As a doll collector myself, I have preferences (duh). I love certain molds and hate others. If I am uninspired by a sculpt (i.e. I don't like it) I imagine it would be really hard to work with, solely because no matter how good of a job I do, I will never be satisfied with it because I didn't like the sculpt to begin with. And I try my best to never give my customers work that I myself am not satisfied with.

Honestly, there aren't many molds I strongly dislike, and thus far I haven't been commissioned to paint any of them. There have been molds I wasn't sure about, and I tried to bring out the qualities that I thought were beautiful about the mold, and downplay the qualities I didn't like. This has actually changed my mind about a few molds- I started to like them after I painted one. So in that sense painting a mold I'm not too fond of has been an interesting challenge with nice results. But if a mold came along that I just could not work with to my satisfaction, I would refuse to paint them in the future. It's not because I'm snobby. It's because I want to give my customers the best result possible, and how can I do that I'm not satisfied with it myself?

[edit] Oh yeah, I was also going to list a few reasons I've seen for refusing certain molds. As has been mentioned already, some artists have painted the same mold over and over and over again, and are tired of them. Some companies use resin that has a different texture than most dolls, so they can be hard to work with. Some resin is very hard to clean (specifically, I'm thinking of French resin) so the artist would rather not risk having to wipe the faceup for any reason. And I'm sure some artists would refuse to work with a doll they felt was a copy of another (though those molds are not allowed on DoA, so if you only take commissions here I guess it would never come up).

 

This is how I interpret this topic.
If I am a face up artist and I have paint 50 Lishes (just an example) and I am really interested in painting say a Volks doll I may say "I am taking commissions for Volks dolls only right now". Some people might be offended but it isnt that I dont want to paint other dolls I am just really wanting to paint a Volks doll. Or maybe a particular mold is really hard to paint. I had a horrible time painting a DIM Archenar head. Now I love the mold but for me I just could not do him justice and I imagine it is the same for other artists some molds are just hard.
And say you want a goth face up and the artist cannot do "goth" are you going to be offended if they say sorry I dont do "goth" or whatever it is your wanting.
Now mind you I do not do commissions and I am just practicing but I imagine since I am human others probably feel the same. I have favorite face up artists that I would love to have paint my dolls but I have not been luck enough to get into. It does not make me like their work any less? NO! Quite the opposite. I may pout about it but when the time is right it may happen or not but that is life. I also think there are probably face up artists you would never want to paint your doll because you don't like their style, should you ask them to change so you can have the face up? There are just thoughts no offense to anyone and they are not directed to anyone or about anyone. Wow! I just added a disclaimer.

 

Even though there is artistry in how a customizer paints a doll, there is also an exchange of money for services provided. That makes it an issue of business, not just art. And in business, there is a common expectation that hired service providers will be more interested in pleasing potential customers than dictating terms to them. Because of this, I don't know that it's quite so much about entitlement as it is about being puzzled. The doll-owner/customizer dynamic doesn't fit the usual business mold.

Add to that the fact that many people feel offended when their doll isn't deemed "worthwhile" for a customizer to work on, and it's no wonder there are questions about the practice. Even if a customizer's limitations aren't meant to be personal, they can easily appear that way. I know I would feel a bit insulted if a pet photographer refused to allow me to hire him because he was "bored" working with cocker spaniels, or had "bad experiences" with them. How dare he imply my beloved dogs are boring, or ill behaved!

Mind, I'm not stating that I think customizers have no right to choose their customers. I think that they do. I also believe that the cocker-spaniel-refusing photographer of my example has that right. But I can understand the confusion and occasional upset caused by the practice. We are a community that takes our dolls personally, and most of us live in a society in which we are taught that the customer is king. I would be shocked if there weren't some people upset that they are excluded from hiring the artist of their dreams.

 

An interesting pov, certainly. It "sounds" a bit....erm...socialistic for my capitalistic sensibilities, but I know there are mindsets like this in the world. Owning and running two very successful businesses, I'm quite glad to be living in a place/time where I do have the ability to refuse a job for whatever reason I feel I must. Makes my work that much better and that's what it's about for me, not numbers or bending to fulfill because I'm a "business". We reserve that "right".

 

Politely put but an insult all the same to the artist out there who has a right to work anyway he or she choses. I don't assume to chalk up selective commissions to any label really. Just because they say "no" does not mean they lack skill. Honestly, I would think that Dollzone would be easier to work on because so much is defined in their face already! They have a solid foundation and shading will happen naturally with such molds.

I will say this, as an artist it is easier to work with something that inspires you. I would have a hard time doing a face up for dolls I did not like. For example, I don't love DollShe (sorry). I know if someone asked me to do a face up for one I would feel concerned about my ability to be satisfied with my work. When your own judgement is coming into play it can be difficult to start with something you don't love and build it into something you feel comfortable sharing/selling to others.

Also, artist are pouring hours into this and it is possible they want portfolio pieces that appeal to their aesthesis

 

I agree with you. As I said, I don't think that customizers lack the right to choose who they work with. Personally, I believe that all businesses have that right. But, living in the society we do, and talking about the hobby we are, I am not surprised to the see the clash of ideals.

I suppose I am fortunate that I do not take my dolls nearly as personally as I take my cocker spaniels!

 

A while back, i saw a few faceup commision threads that stated they wouldnt work on certain company dolls, or would only seemingly work on higher priced, more coveted molds and refused to work on "cheaper" or "lower quality" molds. At first, i thought it was arrogant or discriminatory of them, thinking if they wanted to do faceups, why not just be wiling to take on any sculpt for fun and experience?

After doing and redoing all of my own faceups on my dolls, i realized why though. Certain sculpts are easier or more fun to work with than others, and certain people enjoy working on certain types of faces. I know if i were to offer faceup commissions, i would have certain companies or dolls i'd be excited to work on and others i would probably turn down because either i dont think my style could do the mold justice, or i wouldnt feel inspired enough towards a certain mold to complete the faceup to the best of my ability. Artists of any kind work better when they enjoy what they are working on, and not having the inspiration or the drive to work on something becaus eyou dont like the mold your working on would lead to subpar results, and no one wants that

for example, personally i've mostly got luts/fairyland dolls that i've done faceups for. If i were to take on a realistic sculpt, perhaps a dollshe or soom or, worse yet, a minimee, i'd be lost at what to do. I'm not saying minimees are horrible dolls or anything, i'm saying that i dont think i could work with the realistic style and i couldn't do it justice. It takes a different sort of skills to get them to look great, and i dont have them. It'd be like asking an abstract artist to paint a realistic portrait ^.~

 

The confusion is this. Face up artist are contract artists for hire. You will often find that most artists cannot be talked into doing work that does not appeal to them UNLESS they work in a company and their time is owned or they are SUPER broke. I could never come into work and say “I don’t do Minimalism” because the COMPANY pays me to be good at or at least try to be good at everything that is needed for their products. I owe them. But DOA is not a company. The Face up artists don’t work for us until they accept our commission thus, they don’t owe us anything. They are free to work as it suits them. Freelancers

Why does it matter if an artist does not want to do a Face-up on a certain doll? Why project negativity on them and suggest that they are arrogant? Trust me, they are doing us a favour by limiting their commission. Really who wants to pay an artist to paint a beautiful doll if that artist is in no way interested in painting that doll. Wouldn’t you rather go to someone who is like “Yea I can’t wait to paint your *Insert doll name* !” I know I would.

 

I think customizers get to decide who they want to work with. I have known customizers personally and a lot of clients tend to abuse their patience. I feel they totally have the right to give preferential treatment to those who has a history of good business with them. Frankly, I also don't blame them for choosing whatever brands they want. Some dolls I have no love for, and it would be hard to do anything with them, let alone paint them. ~Gus

 

I've seen some say to me that they won't work with a chinese-made doll (though this was for an awkward mod on an AoD doll and not a faceup). Well, fair enough, your choice, I'm not going to harass you, I'll just ask someone else. I have seen some who refuse to paint some dolls vecause they get a lot of those moulds, again, their choice, I'm sure that too much of the same thing can get rather boring after a while. Not arrogance on their behlf, just preferences, if it is a problem, then you can always ask someone else if they would be willing

 

I've not experienced it in ABJD but can understand in some ways, you should be able to choose what you want to work with or work on when doing commisions. Commisions can be incredibly frustrating (have experienced this in other mediums myself) and working on something your not used to or not into can make it much harder. This frustration can bring down the quality of the final product and customer satisfaction, and in doing so damage the artists name if its bad enough.

As to working with 1 brand or 1 size its understandable:
I seen car places that only work on European cars, sure they could fix another car but their area of expertise is the European car so they stick to it, its easier for them and the can better guarantee the quality of their work because what they are working with is familiar to them.

There are some dolls I wouldn't want to do a faceup on, dolls with deep crevices that are impossible to fully remove paint from, or one particular resin I would be fearful of is souldoll, the dolls are gorgeous but the resin texture is so different I would be afraid to work with it. Some companies resins also react to chemicals different too, some cant handle the cleaners or materials others can.

Artists should have the freedom to work on what they choose, if they want to cut their customer base its their choice. If they want to protect the quality of their work its their choice, if they want to be damn picky its their choice. This isn't an assembly line.
Fortunately there are a lot of great faceup artists so you can make choices too.

 

From what I've seen, the faceups in your portfollio directly influence what kind of head will be sent to you to work. Therefore, if you prefer working on Iplehouse dolls, you'll want a lot of Iplehouse dolls in your portfollio. I know I've seen people do a great job with a doll I own, and I've sent them my doll because of it. By asking for dolls you like to paint, you'll do a better job on them, and you'll also reinforce getting the type of work you want because you're portfollio will contain those dolls.

 

Commissions are done for fun, for the love and also for a bit of cash (in some cases) I dont particularly like topics like this, that aim to looks for the 5th leg of the cat, and then suddenly everyone is getting pissed off, etc. HOWEVER, the artists knows and the artist will let you know if he can or cant. I think it would be worst if u were to send the head off to a far off place only to have it returned with a note saying : I hate this head's material, i wont do it. But i have yet to find a case like that. There is a certain arrogance among certain artists, yes, but thats to be expected. In any trade or expertisem you get to choose what you will specialise on and what your strenghts are. RESPECT, is the word, and i know there are loads of touchy feely people, but I am sure artist will advertise their preferred material for inspiration, and there is no need to feel offended or angry about their choices. Free world people.

 

There have been artists I've wanted to commission, only to find out they don't paint my head sculpt or the company my head was made by. I kind of scratched my head and couldn't quite figure out why. I can understand that there are some sculpts that are -very- popular (for example: Volks SD Four Sisters) and I can see customizers getting tired of painting the same head over and over. If I were a customizer, I, too, would want a little variety in my sculpts. But I'm not sure that's the reason.

As a customer, I find it a bit annoying. There are plenty of artists I would like to have commissioned in the past only to find out they weren't painting dolls X, Y and Z. Unfortunately, I have dolls X and Z, so I guess I'll have to do more research and find another artist. That makes me rethink my entire idea and most times, I end up -not- commissioning anyone. There's no blame to be had, it just makes me a little grumpy. hehe

So yes, I do find it off-putting and a bit annoying as a customer, but I can totally understand wanting variety in your commissions as an artist.

 

I think as people have said that this is a hobby and people want to do it for enjoyment. If you have an active dislike for a type of doll, then why would you want to work on it. It's better to be open and honest about your preferences. Would you want to pay good money for an artist who hated touching your doll's head? I love sewing and draft my own patterns, I can make up outfits from scratch, but I know that I have a preference for different styles of outfits and wouldn't be as good at drafting up modern steampunk styles etc. Why not stick to what suits your style and helps you enjoy your hobby.

 

OT but a little information for you: When DZ first started, they copied Volks Yukinojo SD16 body. They don't sell it anymore now but still, it was illegal to do this. That is part of the reason why Volks immediately discontinued SD16 body in the first place. I hope you know this.

I'm not saying that is the reason why this artist does not want to have anything to do with DZ, but it is a good enough reason if so.

 

I've seen a few artists who have said 'I've painted X number of this doll head and I don't want to paint another one'. I think face-up artists get burned out on certain sculpts. I mean if I'd painted 30 El heads or something I'd be sick of them too. It's really the artist's call on what they want to paint.

Although I will say some sculpts are harder to paint. I have failed time and time again with my Heath.

 

Most of this has been stated already, but I would like to reitterate the parts I agree with:
First I want to state that I agree with an artists rights to refuse any sculpt they like. I also can see much of the "entitlement" syndrome going around on the boards these days. However, I can also see how customers might feel snubbed, perhaps some faceup artists are elitist, I personally do not know and if I felt they were being elitist I would not give it my time and just move on to an artists who would want to paint my dolls. In fact though, I think it is more about the medium the artist wants to use (resin being that medium) and they have every right to chose the medium as you have every right to choose the artists who paints for you.

This is a point I would like to address. Several years ago I did paint a few faceups. I never sold my services, but if I did, there are certain companies I would not paint and dollzone would have been one of them. The reason being that they participated in business practices I do not agree with personally. Perhaps the person rejected them not because of the sculpt design, but they did not like the company or its past practices and did not feel right painting one. In the present day, I might not reject a dollzone sculpt if I still painted, but a few years back I would have. That being said, if you dislike a company or its practices, you should not feel like you are forced to paint one of their heads. As an artists, I would feel my work compromised by my personal feelings towards that company.

I hope that makes sense, I am really just trying to show that everyone has their reasons for choosing to work on (or not work on) what they do. We should respect an artists decisions and exercise our own discretion when chosing an artists to commission.

 

I know that, personally, there are some dolls that I feel are just ugly. The sculpts just don't appeal to me at all, in which case, it would probably be difficult for me to paint them well. I wouldn't want to do a poor job on a hopeful customer's doll just because the sculpt doesn't inspire me at all. I can also see where painting the same head again and again would be monotonous.
It's also understandable that some people wouldn't want to paint a certain size because they find it too challenging.
As others have said, it's their choice whether they paint certain sculpts or not. It might be disappointing to potential customers, but it's their loss in the end.

 

Actually Stella Maris had it mostly right the first time, when she came out swinging - you don't have the right to question the artist's motives, nor the artist's choice of what they'll work on. Period. It really is just that clear-cut. If an artist doesn't like a certain brand/face, then they don't like it. You cannot expect/force people to work outside their chosen idiom. That's like going to a metal sculptor & asking to commission a cross-stitch sampler... and then being offended when they tell you they don't do cross-stitch. Save your righteous indignation, & go look up an artist whose terms will suit your needs.

No, absolutely not. Choosing what kinds of doll you'll paint is no more "arrogant" than choosing what kinds of doll you'll own.
Do you feel obligated to purchase a doll from every company, from every country, of each gender, of each size, of each resin color?
And if you don't, if you're not "flexible" in your collecting/shopping habits, then does that make you an arrogant slob?

A buyer is under no such obligation to make everybody happy, and neither is a faceup artist.

(Besides: What's wrong with only wanting to work on supermodels, anyway? If you can get those jobs, and those faces are where you do your best work, then why not?)

Who are you to judge if their work "isn't that great", then? Who's to say that person's work isn't great, to the customer who wants it?

Either way, skill level is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. You have to feel that you can WORK with a face, before you're able to successfully paint it - it doesn't matter who you are or how much experience you've had - none of that matters. If you're not Feeling It, it's not gonna happen (or, at any rate, it's not gonna look good).

With all that said, I definitely think an artist should list such preferences right up front, in their commission information. No need to say why, just list what they will/won't work on. By now it's just common courtesy, & also saves time (not to mention avoids sensitive confrontations). Most of the good reputable artists I know lately do this now.