Face-up Brand Picky: What do you think?

I know sooooo many artists who are picky and I know many professional photographers who will not do weddings. The main reason is that artists prefer to work on what they like. It is not a loss to them because it is their time and effort we are talking about and most of them want to make work they love. True if you work for a big company you can't be picky because they pay you to be there everyday making stuff. But if you work for yourself you can be more picky. If you are good and well known you can be VERY picky. If you have the cash in the bank you can be SUPERRR picky For fun I can give you a small list of artist demands and restrictions I have encountered over the years.

Examples of people I know or have worked with: (All have successful careers)

*An Oil Painter who will never paint a sea scape (not even for mother)

*A talented graphic designer who will not work on brands that use drop shadows in the their Logo or web site.

*Art Director (from a famous studio) who will not work on any brands that use a lot of pink!

*Artist who refuses to construct a building for a video game that is not 100 percent realistic. I mean like he builds the rooms no one goes into (he is so good that people just let him and go back at the end and delete what needs deleting)

*An Illustrator who will not paint anything that supports the Democratic Party (I swear this guy was for real and he was soooo talented)

*Food Photographer who refuses to photograph any people - ever

*Very sought after Video Artist/Editor who refuses to work on anything with violence at all. He says his kids are the reason.

*Artist who hates brown so much that some oranges cannot be incorporated into his designs because they are too brown????

*Concept artist who only draws machinery, robots, and gears. If you ask for some vegetation in the image he Photoshops it in (he only loves machines).

*Illustrator who will never work on anything owned by or friendly with the company NIKE. She hates the child labor scandal and yes, I saw her turn down the job that would have paid her bills for 4 months.

*Art Director who thinks it is impossible to ever make a Centaur look cool or hot and can't even look at art work that has Centaurs. This is sooooo well known in the studio that fellow artists send her Centaur art as a joke regularly.

Is this list smart? I can't say really. But I believe it is smart to turn down work that REALLY does not interest you because you are less likely to do good work.

Having worked in the art field for a long time I can say that quirky working habits are not abnormal. Sure when people need cash they will sometimes do stuff they don't prefer but if they don't depend on the money they won't bother. It would take a lot of coaxing to get me to take on a Centaur project believe me

 

I think this wasn't meant to offend me, but I think you found a way to. When I said "to me", I really should've comma'd that off because I meant "to me" in the way of "that's my opinion".

Like you said, it doesn't really matter what I think until/unless it's the majority of the opinion.

How come artists get the 'okay' to not really care what their customer thinks? A manager at walmart or a restaurant owner has to, but artists don't? I've seen this a lot lately.

I would consider myself an artist; I do photography(not doll photography, that's not really for me), paint, draw, etc. I guess I get how it's my work and it's how I want it to be. I guess I think that to artist's it doesn't really matter who likes them or not(as long as some people do) because art is more of a luxury item. Art isn't cheap, it's not some toy you throw around and it's put on a pedestal along with being great authors, great artists. But what about great businessmen? Their pretty much scorned and they always have to work to get what the customer wants.

I'm not really a business person and probably never will be, but just food for thought, I guess.

 

You've hit good points, I know all these points(not particularly of course, but new reasons like these), and I never said anything against them. But you've mentioned all people that you said came from "prestigious schools" or are highly "sought after". Obviously, after becoming famous(or just at least well-known in your specialty) and establishing yourself, you can do what you really want and be as picky as you want to be.

But I feel a lot of the references to the more mainstream world are different because that is their job, and if their new, or not known and they don't like doing something and it will pay their bills, there's a huge necessity there to take the job(unless they STRONGLY are against their morals, etc.).

People here are mainly doing this for pocket money, some it helps pay their bills, but most likely have another source of income.

What if I hate working at clothing stores/fast food restaurants/etc, but I just lost my job and I need something to do? The job market right now is very competitive and the like, so, a lot of references to people who are pretty established in their art for a living can't really be compared to face-up artists getting a little extra money(of course not everyone on here is, and for some, it helps them a lot financially).

 

I agree. I don't think this sounds like a specific DZ aesthetic thing. I can easily see someone not wanting to do a Volks Nono because they are sick to death of anime faces or a Dollstown Daisy because they look too real and fleshy or something like that

 

Ok, gonna be very honest here, I haven't read the last three pages of posts, so I'm sorry if this has already been said!

Just to add my two cents as someone who used to take commissions (and accepted all molds and companies), I can totally understand why artists can choose to exclude some companies or molds, and I don't think it has anything to do with bigotry.

For example, I really disliked painting CP/LUTS resin. I found it waaaaay too smooth; even after layers of MSC, I would still have trouble getting pastels to stick. Because of that, I had to redo many attempts (wasting materials and lowering my end revenue) and my end products often were below the quality of which I knew I was capable. It would suck if someone saw that faceup in particular and judged me based on it! So, I can see why someone could reject a company based on resin.

I've also seen commissioners who paint one mold very successfully and subsequently get bombarded with requests for the same mold. Not only may it be boring, but it could also force the artist into a niche that they feel will detract others (with different style dolls) from commissioning them. Eventually, the original commissioner may also feel a bit pissed off if there seems to be repetition in what others are requesting for their own dolls. On a similar note, some artists may paint a lot of realistic molds (or, on the other hand, stylized molds, or anthro molds, or Minimee molds, etc etc...) and want to branch out to show their flexibility. For both reasons, I can understand why an artist would selectively paint based on mold.

Lastly, I think it's important to consider that many people do not paint to make money, but because they enjoy it. Some people may only paint one or two heads a month, and only for pleasure. Why shouldn't they be able to choose what dolls they want to paint? Faceup artists aren't sales people - the customer isn't always right. Besides, one of the many perks I noticed from painting on commission was that you got to handle a lot of different dolls. I think, as most of us know, seeing a doll in person (especially blank) is a lot different than just looking at photos. So, for those reasons, isn't it understandable that an artist take advantage of the opportunity to see some molds they like, or companies they like? And since this is something they're doing for enjoyment, shouldn't they enjoy it?

I'm so tired of hearing the same old, "waaaaaah people are so elitist towards my cheap dolls" argument. (Not pointing fingers, I'm just using a general statement.) If anything, as a faceup artist I would WANT to paint underrated molds because it shows your flexibility and it makes people think, "ok wow that was totally fug on the site and in default pictures but holy crap this artist did something AMAZING with it, they must be super talented!" If you only paint popular molds, people are more prone to think, "yeah, well I'm already biased because I like that mold." I guess it's all just how you look at it. Shouldn't always assume the worst about people

Ok, I'm done :P

 

Potential customer vs. actual customer, for one thing. If the artist doesn't accept the job, the person is not an actual customer.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if I shopped at Walmart, the manager would not give a single hoot what I think of some of their business practices. As merely a potential customer? They get to care even less.

 

Honestly? Because retail and restaurants are customer service industries. Art is not. If you honestly can't see the difference between working at the Walmart and working as a freelance artist, I think that may be the root of this whole debate. A retail employee is hired to interact with customers, as their primary skill. An artist is hired for their creativity and technique, as their primary skill. Of course it's difficult to work with someone who has NO ability to deal with a customer, but it's not the purpose of their job to be nice to you. Personally I think the "customer is always right" mindset has gone too far in the world recently, and creates some very strange expectations that don't always apply to every transaction you'll enter into (or attempt to enter into).

...which is why it makes even more sense that they can be picky when they want to. They're doing it for personal enjoyment! If they don't enjoy something, there's no pressure for them to do it.

 

My example was just a funny way to illustrate that artists can be picky because another poster said most of the ones she knew were not. I can compare them because we were all talking about "picky artists." The point was that many artists work successfully under their own conditions. I will add that success does not always = $. It can be personal satisfaction too. Please see the post I responded to and you will see where I was going with that

Your example (last paragraph) confused me. When did we start talking about making a living and how people owe it to themselves to use more lucrative business practices? Economy and job loss? This is a face up artist and a hobby conversation. I don't think this thread is the place to weigh in on how we think someone should run their "business" in the current economy. Also, I am unclear where your got the idea that they mainly do face ups for pocket money? I have yet to read many posts saying that.

Also you put "prestigious schools" in "" Where did you quote me from?

What is the point you were making with the last part of your post because I think it is not clear.

 

As an artist I guess I'd prefer to call it 'specializing' in a particular discipline, be it sculpt, media, genre, etc. I wouldn't ask an artist that specializes in landscapes to paint people or one who paints in oil to do watercolors. *shrug*

I tend to see picky applying to a person who, when presented with a plate of their favorite foods, won't eat it because the food is touching.

 

Oh this is the best post in this thread. You are so correct! They are specialists really.

The food touching example is just....perfect

 

The wedding photographer analogy doesn't work for me. Wedding photography is a specialty in and of itself, as is doing face-ups on ball-jointed dolls. Saying a photographer doesn't have to do weddings is like saying any fine artist doesn't have to do BJD face-ups.
In this particular case, it would be more like a wedding photographer who refuses to do certain weddings for whatever reason. "Sorry, I only photograph weddings that cost over $100,000", "I only photograph weddings of socialites", etc. And yes, there are such wedding photographers out there. And depending on how tactful they are about it- yes, you might feel offended if they turn you down. But the fact is, a low-end bride is probably not going to be able to afford the high-end photographer anyway.

I personally don't care what dolls people want to paint or why. What you chose to do as an artist is completely subjective and no one has the right to judge you for it. I can't imagine that face-up artists who specialize in only painting the more expensive dolls would have prices low enough that it would be worth spending that much money on getting a less-expensive doll painted.

Yes, there are a handful of very well-known, high profile face-up artists out there and while I personally haven't checked prices, I imagine that the more well-known you are, the more you tend to charge. So if you need a face-up for your doll and the artist you want to do it isn't available, for whatever reason, keep looking. There are a lot of very talented newcomers out there who would probably be happy to do it for you. You may not have the big name that you can show off at meet-ups, but you should be able to find someone to do a good job for you.

That said, I would like to point out that the term "cheap" actually IS a derogatory term. So if you call someone else's doll cheap, you really can't be surprised if they get defensive. "Less expensive" is a little more polite and not quite so incendiary.

 

Different kind of business. You don't become the artist's customer until they agree to the commission, and then I am sure most do care about customer service and achieving an end product that pleases both parties involved.

If you ever frequent online art sites or the artist alley at a convention, you will often see artists who take commissions, and most of them will have a list of things they will not draw, be it yaoi, het, boobs, furry art, tentacles, characters with red hair, Naruto, unicorns, backgrounds... the list goes on and on. I don't think it's a slight against anyone. An artist may be limiting their potential customer base, but clearly they have thought about it and decided that the gain of not working on something they don't want to work on outweighs the potential lost business.

As someone who was the manager of a large retail store for almost 5 years, I have to say that one of the things I hate most about American customer service is the prevalent attitude that if money is being waved around, the business has to to bend over backwards for the customer and has no ability to say no. There were instances where I threw people out of my store, in spite of the lost sales, because of the way they treated me or my staff. We do have a right to refuse your business and turn you away as a customer.

 

Walmart and restaurants are generally mass-market businesses. The business model depends on volume - how many folks they can get in and out. I would note that the fancier restaurants, where food is more of an art form, do tend to limit their clientele in certain ways (perhaps by having a reservation system where certain folks or certain types are favored) and reserve the right to refuse service to people.

An artist or other skilled professional, on the other hand, generally doesn't do a volume business and concentrates on doing a super-excellent job for a few handpicked customers.
It's funny that we understand quite well when a heart surgeon doesn't want to do hip surgery, or an attorney who specializes in wills doesn't want to handle somebody's med/ mal trial. Or even if there are certain cases that they can't/ won't take on because their schedule is full or they don't feel they could do a good job with the case for whatever reason (can't work with the client, not something they feel comfortable doing).

Why can't we understand that when it comes to commissionable artists? It's a completely different situation from having 50 dolls, pairs of jeans, or hamburgers already in the pipeline to sell and just parceling them out to whoever comes through the door.

 

Yes - and "cheap" is inaccurate, too. Even the least expensive of these dolls is not "cheap" for the majority of the people on this planet. Added to the fact that some of the brands commonly considered "cheap" actually cost the same or more than some of the ones who never seem to get that designation... it's not about price at all, is it?

But on topic for THIS thread - an artist has the right to limit what they specialize in. This is a hobby, people are doing faceups here as a sideline to their regular job, because they enjoy it. If they want to limit their customer base, so be it. Why should they paint dolls they don't enjoy painting? They could be doing something else they enjoy with their free time, and the little bit of money they get to add to the dolly fund from it may not be enough to offset the unpleasantness for them.

 

And of course, most if not all of faceup artists also have a second, probably full-time job. That means they're using up their precious weekend hours to paint doll heads, when they could be out with friends, family, doing something for them and not for you, the commissioner.

 

I know this has been said by others but I agree that an artist has every right to choose what they will and won't work on. I'm kinda surprised this is even questioned. I don't consider specialisation to be elitism if the artist wants to stick with what they are good at to get the best results for their clients.

I make plush/cloth dolls on commission and there are certain things I just won't do, such as ridiculous hyper cute anime faces, because this isn't my style and there are OTHER artists who have built their portfolio around this style, so I'll happily point people in their direction. I want happy clients, because that makes ME happy, and nobody will benefit if I try to work outside of my area of expertise, will they?!

If you feel an artist IS being purely elitist, and you don't like it, then move along and find someone else who will do their best for YOUR doll.

 

I'm wondering why people haven't brought up the other side of the coin: giving discounted (or free) face-ups to certain molds. I've seen far more "free face-ups for X, Y, and Z" threads than "I won't do A, B, and C" threads. If you think avoiding A-C is wrong, wouldn't giving discounts on X-Z be wrong too?

Artists are living, breathing people. Not a INSERT HEAD HERE FOR FACE-UP tool. It shouldn't matter what their reasons are.

 

As a professional graphic and find artist I have to agree with the above quote. Artists work in a very different mind set then most folks. What you may think acceptable, the artist may not. It's "their work" they are signing off on, not yours. You are just the buyer, not the creator. The artist is in the the business of selling their view on a subject. If you happen to purchase a completed work that you had no in put, then your saying that you like the "artists' eye" and trust them enough to create a design/face-up for you, using your guild lines. The out come of that, hopefully will be a finish product you love. It's a chance you take. Maybe that is what's bothering a few people. Either way, the creator has the right to pick and choose their subject.

 

...wait... lemme catch up later... I still can't believe anybody even tried to compare a faceup-artist to Walmart... ... does not compute...

Thank you.

And one more time:

 

Any form of artwork can be a highly personal enterprise for the artist to sell. There is an emotional, as well as a physical investment in a face-up, as a face-up artist is usually meant to create a feeling or emotion for the face-up; it gives the face personality, which will require this emotional connection to do. If a face-up artist finds themselves completely and utterly unable to connect emotionally with a particular sculpt, the results they get with that sculpt as opposed to others may be drastically different.

I still do not understand the mentality that an artist should be able to give you whatever you want, simply because you want it. Artists are individuals, or small groups of individuals. Each one has a different preference, a different method, and a different style than another artist who may do the exact same thing. That being said, some artists may find themselves limited, or choose to limit themselves, because they feel their talents are better suited to one thing as opposed to another. If an artist - or any other human being, for that matter - doesn't want to do something, and they are forced or otherwise coerced into doing it, you are not going to get the same results as if they were doing something they enjoyed, and took on of their own will. Because of that, many artists will refuse to do something they simply feel they cannot, or will not do well, either because they feel the results will not reflect their abilities in a way they wish them to be reflected, or simply because they have zero desire to come within 3 feet of a subject. Either way, this is not someone offering you a car part, or a package of toilet paper at a nation-wide chain store; this is someone offering you an individual, creative work of art, and if they do not feel they can (or want to) take on the task you wish them to preform, there should be no reason why they should have to do it.

I do understand that falling in love with a particular artist's style, only to discover they do not offer their services to your particular doll can be frustrating and disappointing. I am not saying that it won't be, and I am not saying that you don't have the right to feel that way. What I am saying is, regardless of the reasons the artist has for limiting his or her services, you get no say in it. You are not entitled to a say in it, nor should you be.​