Face-up Brand Picky: What do you think?

You make a lot of great points and I appreciate them, but I have to HIGHLY disagree with you on that. Frankly the idea of a "best" faceup artist has always been a turn off for me.

I think it's interesting to see the suggestion that this is a case of professionalism or "warm-fuzzyness" as others have called it.

I do acknowledge there are people that think specialized is best... but the POINT of a DEBATE thread is to discuss them both.

This whole debate has spawned a question for me though-do you all think that there are people that specificially seek out artists who only faceup their molds of dolls? I'm curious...

 

That's definitely a valid question, as both have merits -- that's not the question that was asked, however. The question was about thoughts on people who have chosen to exclude certain sculpts, companies, or styles from the work they are willing to take on. It's more about whether someone has the right to specialize than whether people prefer it or not.

I've approached all of one person in the history of ever about potentially having a faceup done at some point, though I haven't set up for one (with anyone) as yet. That artist has a list of preferred sculpts, some of which I own, some I don't, some from companies I have dolls from, some I don't. I can say that her work on sculpts from the company that produced the doll I inquired about were extremely compelling to me, and yes, her work on previous sculpts from that company would encourage me to request a slot for work some day because of her skill and familiarity with that company's sculpting style.

 

Well personally I don't think there could be a best artist either because again...it goes back to taste Yours and mine might be different.

To answer you question- I would not and I don't know anyone who does chose an artist who only does their mold. I think that specializing can be a good thing but I also think it is good if an artist loves doing all molds. For me it is up to the artist and how they like to work. I would just look at their portfolio and decide based on their work if I wanted to hire them. I wouldn't care if I saw my mold in their past work. Mostly it would be about their style.

Wow that is rude, and said with no proof. I have yet to read an artist taking the opportunity to come whining on the board. I must be missing a post somewhere? Did you consider some of the valid reasons given? Or was there another thread somewhere that gave you the impression that people are whining?

 

Well, if we're calling things rude... I don't think this is what the OP did at all. And the second sentence can be targeted to anyone who bothers to argue/debate here, including yourself.

Really? I thought it was the other way around? Who's questioning the artist's right to specialize?

I think that's a narrow and gross assumption to make about people. Yes, there are many people that are 'so comfortable with their own decisions' that they don't feel the need to defend them or their doll, or don't feel offended when they feel their choice/doll is slighted. And certainly some people that do feel insecure in their decisions and therefore feel a need to overcompensate by being oversensitive to the issue. But there's a whole lot of people that just love their doll, but because of that love, feel the need to defend what they care about when they feel it's being put down, and feel hurt or annoyed when they sense a slight. A person can love their doll just as much as you do and still feel that way.

ali

 

Pretty much anyone saying the people offering their services should never turn down work no matter what it is. I won't go so far as to include people claiming that a generalist is universally a 'better' artist, but in some cases it certainly seems to be leaning in that direction.

My point was, and remains: the inherent merits and flaws of either being a specialist or a generalist in any given artist you want to hire is not the same as confusion over why someone would limit the sculpts they accept to work on (regardless of their reasoning for doing so). One question weighs the benefits and drawbacks of either position -- which is certainly an interesting discussion to have -- but it isn't the same as "why do some people limit what sculpts they will work on?"

 

Nah Ali. I don't fabricate and misrepresent in debates. I don't put " " around sentences that people never said. I stick to what I know. Also, I debate because it is fun to exchange ideas..not because I want to start a poor me support group on DOA. People who feel the need to just make stuff up should keep it in their diary. Also, my point was not only targeting the OP. It was to anyone who dumps falsehoods and labels on this forum with nothing to back them up.

Oh and I think Ree Ree hit the nail on the head. I am also proud of my dolls and I think that is a big reason I don't go around looking to be offended by other collectors. I just assume everyone will like my dolls and if they don't, well I don't care. If a Face Up artist hates painting my ShinyDoll I just don't care one bit. I am glad if they tell me that they don't want to paint her because then I can go with someone who wants to paint her unique little face. End of story.

 

What the heck?

Of course the OP deserves an answer. She was simply curious.


Wow, I'm not even going to read past post 4. I can't believe we've come to the point where people can't even ask a question anymore.

 

I am absolutely with you on this one. I only wander in here if I am really bored and have learned not to take anything personally. And also to realize that nothing is ever settled in these endless discussions.

That said, I would like to make a couple of points. One is that, in fact, a lot of people HAVE actually, specifically referred to other people's dolls as cheap, ugly and inferior, using those actual words. If you don't believe it, then you haven't read a whole lot of the "elitism" discussions.

There is nothing wrong with being an elitist. In fact, elitism is what results in excellence. I have been called elitist in many areas, including organic food, chocolate, wine, coffee, art, music, literature, and so on. I don't get offended if someone calls me elitist because it's true. I also don't see anything wrong with being an elitist. On the other hand, I don't walk around sneering at people who listen to Shania Twain just because I prefer Mozart. I also don't say to my friends who prefer pop or C&W, "I'm not an elitist, you're only calling me that because you're insecure about your choices in music. You can listen to that crap if you want to."

If a face-up artist says, "I only paint certain companies because their dolls have wonderful resin, I like their facial sculpts, I find their quality to be superior, etc." then yes, that is elitist and there is nothing wrong with that. Your focus in that case are the positive attributes of the companies you like.

If they say, "I would never paint your doll because that company has really crappy resin and the molds are ugly," that isn't being an elitist, that is being a snob. In this case, you are focusing on what you perceive as the negative attributes of companies you don't like. I would also like to stress here that I have never seen any face-up artist say something like this, I only put it here to make a point.

 

cirquemom, I think you're post is pretty rad ^_^ . I think I've argued about the term 'elitest' before (in other debate forums, in other endless circles) , and it's just... I try not to use it at all anymore =P .

I don't think people who say that mean that they think artists should actually not be allowed to turn down work, but that it's an unfavorable practice that they disagree with. But I guess that wasn't the point of what you said. I get what you're actual point is =P .

I didn't say you fabricated or misrepresented in debates.

The "quote" jab seems kind of lame to me. It feels like it's directed at me, but yet, since I don't think I do that, it's a mystery.

I don't know, the way you're getting fired up about this it seems a lot more 'poor me' than the OP. This thread wasn't made to complain, but to "exchange ideas" and engage in open discussion, the same as you apparently. So the comment I quoted seemed very rude to me. Who's making stuff up here? Who's asking for pity? Is anyone here actually proclaiming deep personal offense that an artist refused their doll brand?

I recognized that it was a general proclamation, along with "targeting the OP". I decided not to comment on what I think of such general proclamations.

Good idea =P .


ali

 

Whoa it's hot in here.

I think for many face-up artists this is just a hobby not their job. Hobby's are ment to be fun.
Face-upping is also my hobby, I do it once in a while sometimes for other people. But not very often.
It's much more fun to paint a head you like than a sculpt you dislike I can say from experience. And that's not always a cheap/expensive brand thing. I think it's noticible when the face-upper didn't enjoyed painting the doll. Because a face gives the doll a bit of personality/soul. It's an important thing. And it's for the best when you choose someone you know would love to paint your doll. If not I wouldn't even want that person to paint my doll for example. :P (but I don't know about this. I paint my own dolls, and I love to paint them)

 

I'm sorry, but that isn't elitism. Elitism is defined as a pride in one specific area or belonging to a specific group to the exclusion of all others, and finding one company's dolls uninspiring is not elitist, it's a valid opinion on a very subjective topic.

If you're going to use the elitism buzzword, you need to be clear on what you mean by it because it is extremely overused and vary rarely used in the correct context.

Why worry about someone else's reputation? In any case, the only reputational factoids I really care about when choosing face up artists are;

• do I like this artist's style?
• do their previous customers recommend them?
• are they in the same country as me?
• do their prices match their quality?
• can I trust this artist with my precious, expensive doll?

It matters very little to me if an artist only chooses to face up SDs or MSDs or teeny tiny PukiPukis, or whether an artist prefers to only face up WS dolls, or whatever. If I find an artist who ticks all my boxes but only paints Iplehouse dolls, I'll look for someone else to paint my CP Lishe. I don't lose out because I'll find a similarly talented artist who will fulfil my commission, the only person who does lose out is the artist who won't paint my particular doll and earn any money from me, but that's not my concern. My concern as a customer only extends as far as the artist who actually does take on my commission, not artists who won't.

 

*OT hat is go*

TBH, I don't think it's that people can't ask a question. My impression (YMMV of course) is that the last few threads I've seen crop up are asking loaded questions. Thoughts and impressions get attached to the question itself that put a certain group in a position to have to defend themselves right away -- and that only ends in tears for everyone.

One of the great pratfalls of the internet is that there's nothing to go on but words, and sometimes words can be misinterpreted. In this case, if the question had stopped at 'why do artists reject one sculpt/brand?' then I doubt there would be such a fallout. It's when the arrogance accusation came into play before any other options could be suggested that feathers got ruffled. Like over in the Chinese doll debacle: if the OP had left out the racism/elitism overtones and phrased her question as a simple question, I doubt it would've gotten so heated. (Well, maybe it would have. I could be looking at it through the proverbial rose-colored glasses.)

...I am probably far, far too much of an altruist though, and I've never understood the need to pass judgment on someone else's hobby activities. The pool's big enough for everyone to play the way they want; we should be playing, and if we don't like how someone else plays then we go play with someone who plays like we do. (And as I have not yet ingested my RDA of caffeine I'm wondering if this makes any damn sense at all. )

*removes OT hat*

 

This.

I really wish people would stop defining merely having an opinion or preference as elitism. Someone isn't elitist just because a doll isn't to their taste nor is an artist if they're fed up of or simply don't want to paint certain sculpts, that's their preference and they have every right to turn commissions down based upon it.

 

I just assume that working with certain brands may be easier for the artist.

Like I myself, am used to painting boys. I have more problems with dolls that have more delicate features like most girls. I recently did my first female comission and it was hell I'll tell you that.

Just Like I have an easier time painting boys with more round faces. My Heliot I couldn't do because I found his features rather narrow and pointed, also some what smaller and delicate.

So really I find myself having an easier time with brands like Luts as opposed to ones with sharper features like Soom.

Though I'm stubborn so I'll try anyway :P

 

I think like with most things is life, especialising in aparticular resin or gender or brand is important to an artist. I think it is fantastic that the great majority of artists i have seen here, can work in ANY doll, but if there is someone who rather wok of particular brans or resin, i guess its their own "comfort zone", it would be difficult to "force" someone, and then u get a result you dont like.

 

I didn't say that they were whining elitists-I said that they can come off that way. Also, in the same post I mentioned that people really have no right to judge artists because in the end it is their decision to do what they want to... Did you forget about that? People will read what they want to and make a post into what they want it to be.

What I really meant in all that is that there's a danger of coming off that way, not necesarilly that everyone who does that is, or even any one who does. 99.9% of artists are not that way at all.

I agree that using the word elitist might be a bit extreme so sorry if that offended anyone. Though sometimes peoples actions make them look that way when they are not. That is what I meant in the first place and then you got me all frustrated XD! I agree that 99.9% of the artists that only do specific sculpt are not elitist. But I think there is a danger of them coming off that way-and they HAVE upset people, obviously or this thread and the previous about someone refusing to faceup their doll, would not exist.

But please people, try not to freak out about little words like that... I could freak out about the whole demeaning artisans who are interested in working on varried projects as "warm-fuzzyness," but I didn't.

Now as far as people's reputation goes-that's true it's their own business. I was just saying that peoples action's DO effect their reputation. I know it's nothing profound but I was just trying to point out there are some negatives to only accepting a certain brand for faceup.

I see your positive points and agree with them. It's true that an artist has to make a choice what they do (I agreed with this from my very first post in theis thread). It's true that artists who frequently do the same sculpt will most likely be very skilled at a faceup on said sculpt. It's true that sometimes you get uninspired by something and cannot work past it. It's true that the only person who a reputation really matters to is it's owner.

On the other hand, I still believe that people being that selective can make them come across as elitist. That a lot of talented artists have grown from taking on projects they didn't want or that was hard for them. That all of us on here have a reputation that will be effected by little things like that. That a "warm-fuzzy" (you guys' buzzword) all embracing artist isn't inferior or superior to a specialist-but is just as valid.

You have to decide if you can fathom that other people out their believe that. I always like to look at the way that others think and I believe that's the point of a debate thread.

I agree with everyone that the debate sub-forum is tiring and old, but not because the topics or because of people's fantastic ideas and responses... To me it's because people quickly turn to unfriendly debating. Judging people's morals by their responses, targeting people instead of offering fresh thoughts, going off on vindictive tangents (Hell am I guilty of that -.-!).

Wow that was long. My bad -.-!

 

Thank You for saying this.

 

Yes I read it. It sounded a lot like you were contradicting yourself but I didn't want to point that out. I read it like - first you were laying down an insult and than illustrating that you were the bigger person by forgiving. But this is just text and since I can't really read your emotions though the text I will take you at your word that you did not intend to suggest that they are "whiners" and leave it at that Maybe we are agreeing on a few things. I hope so.


***I deleted the request for a link here. Bad idea***

 

I don't see why we have to attach moral calls like that to debates XD! Bigger person, smaller person, more correct person... It's all debate. I honestly don't like to think like that in debates.

I deffinately see how it came across that way-it wasn't very well worded. I just like to try to see both sides of things, sometimes both sides at the same time... until someone tries to force me to one side-which I really hate XD!

I'd be interested to see some of those faceup artists as well, because to be honest I've only heard from people that said their sculpt was rejected by an artist.

 

I'm curious about this too. I know I have seen it myself, but I can't remember which artist because they weren't on my continent and I tend to automatically forget artists I wouldn't commission.

Let's just wind this down a little. There's no freaking out going on.

This is the internet. All I have to go on are your (general 'you') words and if you use words incorrectly or in the wrong context, I'm going to misunderstand you and you're going to misunderstand me. In the spirit of mutual understanding and harmony, I'm honour-bound as a card-carrying, degree-holding linguist to tell people when the word they've chosen is wrong and why, otherwise it perpetuates misunderstanding and hurt feelings.

I'm not picking on you personally, Eraknight, I'm sorry if it looks this way, it's just as River said, too many people use the word 'elitism' in the context of having a preference or an opinion, which is incorrect and leads to further mistakes when other people see this usage and think that elitism really is about simply having a preference for one thing over another.

As far as buzzwords go, 'warm and fuzzy' really doesn't have the same power to offend as 'elitism' does

There is a very big difference between being selective and being elitist, as I have already pointed out. An artist can be choosy about what they paint without even approaching the outer limits of elitism.

What about artists who only paint gothic face-ups? Are they elitist for not painting in a natural style? Would an artist be considered elitist because they only take commissions from people they know? I certainly hope the answer to these is no, because none of these examples are examples of elitism.

Some talented artists have grown from painting things they dislike or feel uninspired by and just getting on with the job...but I wouldn't want my doll to be painted by one of these people. If I send my doll out to be painted I want the artist to feel just as enthusiastic about the commission as I do and have a passion for what they're doing. If they're painting dolls they feel all 'meh' and uninterested in, I would feel that they wouldn't put a whole bunch of effort into the face up because when I am uninspired by something myself I don't tend to want to do much with that which uninspires me.