FANCYBOOTS Liebchen Release Information

Actually, with all due respect Karin, I think you are missing my point.

1. I noticed the doll's legs were bowed forward. I didn't say that was not cute or anything and not once did I criticize. I think also Dezarii noticed this in her post as well and voiced a question. We are voicing concerns and asking questions about your product because we can't handle one ourselves.

2. When I looked at my other dolls (such as the Unoa that Diep mentioned for comparison) I noticed that there was a locking feature in the knee that prevented this type of bowing from occuring. You know, the bowing is very pronounced, this is not a small thing. So then I tried my other dolls (Volks etc), and none of theirs could bow forward either due to the knee lock sculpt which assists the doll in standing.

3. The question at the end of all this was: how does this impact standing strength? Does her knee float or is there a locking part in the sculpt?

4. Standing strength is a question I think MANY of us are interested in.

5. You didn't answer my question, rather you compared standing ability to "not liking a chin, a pair of hands, or any other feature of a doll." You're a doll collector, too, so I don't think your response was really fair to me. Ability to stand well and pose well is extremely important to some of us in BJD hobby. To each their own is right, and we are asking about the points which are important to us in deciding whether to buy a doll or not.

 

Cato, I think that she stands fine. Hope that answers your questions. Here are some more photos showing the right side leg. I made them straight up and down just like in the photo from this morning with them side-by-side, with the exception that I moved the left leg slightly backward so that she can stand on her own. The morning photos were against a background, but these are free-standing 5" from the white background that you see. She is standing unaided, with her legs straight. I left her there to go upload the photos, 15 minutes ago, and she is still standing exactly like I left her. She'll keep standing unless one of my girls comes along and bumps against her.









Edit: What's interesting to note is that yes, her legs are curved because I like them that way, but some of the extra curvature is also due to the angle of the camera and the pose. I noticed in the top photo that the left leg that is back looks more curved than the front leg that is more to the foreground. Because the leg was going back, and because I was trying to show the right side (that is in question), the angle was coming more from the right side so it picks up more curvature from the left thigh at that angle. The pose is exactly the same in all photos in this post---I did not move the doll at all, but just moved the camera around.

You can see in the side photo that the legs are angled exactly the same, with the aforementioned fact that one leg was positioned slightly back.

 

I'm sorry that you thought I was "coincidentally hiding the bad knee". I didn't know that she had a bad knee, and I always take a side photo facing to the left of the photo because that's a design and composition element. Viewer interest normally goes from left to right, so if you position the object pointing back into the photo, it keeps the interest in the photo. That's what I was taught in composition and design classes, so that's just reflex to pose that way. Sometimes I pose with the doll facing to the right, looking off the page, because I want to show a detail on that side.

If you look in the post above, you will see her leg all from the right side. I was not intentionally trying to "hide" anything as you said.

 

Yay more pics! Hehe.
Well Diep I think you explained and showed enough so that people can decide whether they want to order or not. Now no more typing, you have other things to do! Just kidding.
I had noticed that leg alignment thing Cato mentioned in that photo when it was first posted, but it wouldn't have made me not want her as I was completely sold on Liebchen already by that time. And later photos completely reassured me about her standing pose.
With the number of dolls that will be available, and the number of people who signed up for the first to know list, I'm sure she'll sell out very fast.
And BTW, anyone who knows you would never think for a minute you'd try to hide anything in your photos.
We are so lucky to have you available to answer all our questions about this adorable creation of yours, unlike the Asian BJD companies, please forgive us if we bombard you with questions sometimes. When you first told of your intention to sell her in a resin edition I'd never have imagined you'd make all wigs and costumes yourself, including shoes. I can't begin to imagine how tired you must be with all the work to be done on this edition, try to rest a little!

 

If Diep says that Liebchen can stand well, then I believe she can stand well. Based on the pictures, she stands better than a lot of the big company BJDs out there.

I hope she doesn't take any of the terminology used to heart, because it'd be really sad if she stopped posting due to having to defend herself everytime there's an update.

 

I initially shared some of Cato's concerns about Liebchen's legs/standing. Not having had the benefit of seeing development pictures, owner pictures, or the doll in real life, I relied on the pictures on the website, and from them I garnered the impression that her leg contours resembled the back legs of a horse (very graceful, just not very human!) I'm glad to see from these new pictures that Fancyboots has posted that she does stand very prettily, and that the curve in her leg is nowhere near as extreme as it looked (perhaps it was the camera angle). Thank you for taking the trouble to provide these new pictures. And thanks, Cato, for asking!

 

Thank-you, Shan, that was a very nice way to say that! I can honestly say that it never occurred to me that her legs would look strange to some based on those photos on Karin's site simply because I see the doll day in and day out, so I already know how she looks. You're right, it's better to also include straighter photos that show the doll plainly, instead of going for the visual. I guess that the straighter photos aren't as interesting visually, so I tend not to use them, but in the case of presenting and selling a doll, they are invaluable, as I've learned today!

I've sent Karin the photos to add to those others. Thank-you for the heads up on this, as I never would have guessed that her legs were looking horselike to some, based on the way that I had her posed!

 

I think Karin and Diep have to realize this:

there are many of us who don't know them.

they are selling a product, and have to answer questions about that product.

Having people ask questions about the construction of your BJD is not "personal"... it's normal. VERY normal. I think they ought to thank those of us who took the time to ask questions about it.

If this were a new Luts doll in a pic with bow legs I am thinking that there would be tons more questions out there and people would not be getting so defensive and acting like it's personal. That's too bad, 'cause these are not cheap dolls and we should feel comfortable that our questions are being answered cheerfully as valid concerns. Because they are valid concerns.

when you answer customer questions and get defensive responses, it raises suspicions that something is being hidden (whether that is true or not). i never suggested something was being hidden, but I feel that I have not had my questions answered.

For instance, I still don't know that the doll's legs have a locking groove in front and if her kneecaps float over the lower leg part rather than sitting in a groove. I could discover this for myself if I saw the doll in a shop, but I rely on the seller and artist to answer those questions because I am at a disadvantage not seeing it for myself. I don't think it's too much to ask, and I don't consider it personal.

That's it, and thanks for answering my question about your doll product.

 

Still want to know about the knees, but thanks for posting some more on this.
I also notice that the doll's right knee is slightly higher than the left, and of a slightly different arc. I'm not sure , but that could be what Desarii was picking up on.

 

Her knees are the same. If you look at the photos you can see that Diep has her right leg positioned slightly behind the left.

 

Oh, not the recent photos, this photo on page 1:



The legs are together in this one but seems the right knee is higher. I am wondering if that is what Dezarii meant. Maybe she will clarify her concern. My only remaining question is on the knee groove-- whether or not it locks or floats over the lower leg.

 

You know.... I have to say that I feel there is a difference between being given the opportunity and honor to talk about a doll with it's creator...

...and another to nit pick and tear down and accuse based on photos!

And if Diep sounded a little defensive to you - well, she's an artist, and artist's are sensitive. This is the work of many months and the dream of many years for her.

There are other doll-makers on this forum, and I dareday their creations aren't scrutinized in this fashion.

 

Cato, I also don't know you and I don't know how you are stating things. I don't think that I answered any of your questions defensively. I was actually trying to be as honest as possible, and even trying to discourage you from ordering this round as I was actually thinking that it was the aesthetics of the sculpt that you didn't like. I only took exception when I thought that another poster was intimating that I was trying to "hide" things. I spent all day trying to understand your question and answering, as well as taking photos that were requested. I have never hidden anything, and believe that I have gone out of my way more so than a foreign company would, to try to accurately answer your questions. It was my perception that you either had the wrong idea of her leg because of the way that I posed them in the photos, or that you personally did not like her sculpt. Now I understand the bending part, so explained that in an earlier post.

As for the "locking groove", I already said that I don't know what you mean by that. Maybe if you took a photo of your doll to show me, I could answer. I presently only have a Secretdoll Yomo here, and she doesn't have anything that I would call a "locking groove". Also, as I said before, I had Volks and CH dolls and didn't remember any locking grooves in them, but it's most likely that what you are calling a locking groove is not what I called it.

I am also not clear on what you mean "floating over". I'm not trying to be dense, but the terms are simply not clear to me. The upper leg does cup over the lower leg, as it does in most bjd that I've seen. It doesn't look any different than any of the bjd that I've seen. There are aesthetic differences, but no functional ones at that juncture. The ball that it cups over is an actual shape, then there is a ridge that becomes the rest of her lower leg. Is *that* what you mean by a locking groove??

When you say "locking groove", I think of an actual shaped piece like the one on the bottom of the new body MSD (like Mika) that actually "locks" in place when you have her sitting. I haven't seen any bjd that have something like that at the knee joint, so I just don't know what you mean. If you get a chance, take a photo and we can go from there.

I was not being defensive with you at all. You are absolutely correct in that the dolls are very expensive in general, and I would certainly not want to feel like I had misspent my hard earned money either. I always welcome questions, but I also need to have them presented in a polite manner just the same way that I always try to answer them. I'm not saying that you were not polite---because you were, but I had no idea what you meant by the dropping a line down and the locking groove, so I had to ask.

In general, what I personally think is that because there is no language barrier, and because I readily respond to questions, people seem to feel more free to ask things and state things in such a way that they may not do with the Asian artists. It almost feels as if more respect is accorded to foreign artists than to native ones. That's just my personal opinion. I have never shirked from a question, and do my best to answer in a polite and honorable way. I've been asked questions in PM that I KNOW the person would *never* dream to ask a foreign artist but for some reason they think it is perfectly fine to say to an American one.

 

I cannot answer this with certainty, but based on photos I have seen of the cast pieces, her knees do lock, ie, the kneecap sits in a groove at the top of the calf.
As far as her knees being uneven ~ it merely looks to me that her right knee is positioned slightly behind the left.

 

No, her knees are not crooked. She was standing on my ironing board because that is the closest place to my window and I needed the light. The ironing board is padded and higher towards the outer edges, so I adjusted her legs so that she would stand and stand in such a way that she would be straight. I wasn't even looking at the knee levels, as I was focussed on making sure that her legs were straight for you to see.

 

Cato, maybe this would answer your question....here is a photo that I took last night of some of the parts of the already cast pieces. You can see the upper and lower legs, not strung up. Maybe you can see from the photo whether or not it answers your question regarding the locking groove.

 

I honestly have to say that I think that the tone of this thread, specifically the use of such words/phrases as "bad knee" and "mislead" goes beyond trying to ask helpful questions about Liebchen's construction and insinuates that there is some degree of deliberate misinformation occurring.

Diep has answered each and every question that has been asked of her...and I know from years of experience that you can answer many questions and yet sometimes the person just doesn't feel like they've gotten what they wanted. It's ok, no one reads minds which is why it's important to pick your words carefully to avoid being misinterpreted.

If you don't know Diep personally please remember that she has been a member here far longer than most...longer than I, for certain.

I'm sure that Diep will continue to answer any questions asked of her, but this thread has crossed a line and is a touch insulting. I can't help but agree with Janne that an Asian artist would not have been treated this same way.

It would be a shame for this to be locked because of miscommunications...

 

Ah, now something that I *can* answer definitively for you---yes, there are variances in some of the arcs---for instance, if you look at the curve at the bottom of her lower leg piece---where the front of her leg at the ankle would be, there is a variance in that arc.

I knew that even before she was cast, but did not change that because it was a small variance and did not affect performance. I believe that the knee arcs are the same, though.

I know for a fact that there are slight variances all over her body, from the left arm to the right arm, left leg to right leg, etc. No, she is not perfect. But, remember, she is also handmade in her entirety and is not a manufactured product. There *will* be variances. But I personally do not think that is a flaw, as nobody is perfectly symmetrical. Not even what is created in Nature or by God is perfect, , so I certainly know that something that I make will not be perfect.

Now, if anything changes performance, then I did make changes. Her arms were resculpted twice because one arm was slightly turned more than the other. That affected certain movements, in my mind, so I corrected what I saw as errors.

Her torso that you see is actually her 3rd one. The first one was scrapped for functional reasons, and the second one for aesthetic reasons. So, yes, if you want to go over every curve and angle, I can say for sure that you will find differences.

There are also slight differences because of what the moldmaker does, as he individually drills out each and every limb. He has my original sculpt to work from and match, but he's also human so each drilled channel may not be exactly the same as the next. But so far as function and aesthetics are not compromised, I can accept that.