Have you ever had another BJD collector say something rude about your dolls?

Oh my, I never had this happen to me so far, thankfully, but I understand not everyone has the same tastes in things (or how they even respond to it). There's been plenty of dolls I've seen that ( please pardon the bluntness ^^;;; ) look like a "train wreck" to me, but I would never say that to the owner or post that anywhere ridiculing their style, because they spent their own money and they have a right to make the dolls look however they want (even if I want to cringe). Now if the owners ask for critiquing or asked me personally what I thought, then I may put my 2 cents worth, but I'd try to be as nice and tactful as I can. Something like "It's a very unique style, but it's not something I'd want for myself" etc. For critiquing, I'd emphasize that it's only my opinion, but may point out specific things that I don't care for, but will try to compliment on something positive, if I can. I'd hate for someone to be rude to me and I would hate to be rude to someone else. But I can accept critiquing if done without the vehemence in the tone.

 

I think having dissenting views is a good thing in a hobby based around customizing and experiment (such as with mods and doll making). If everyone's so busy patting each other on the back about how amazing everything you do is - and how it's so WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL, EXCITING - you can never truly get better. And to be honest, I think in some cases, the accusations of rudeness are just thrown out there because the person didn't get the glowing remarks they felt they deserved. ("Isn't he gorgeous?" "He's nice enough, but you may want to use a different eyelash length, it's overwhelming." "OMG HOW RUDE D"

I have an ugly DD. She's a hot mess, no doubt about it. And when people point out that she's pug fugly, I'm not offended - because you'd have to be some kind of blind man to not see the truth of the statement (Eyes painted with shaky hands, uneven dye job...oh yea. She's a real piece of work). But, oddly enough, despite how much of a looker she isn't, she gets complimented because of the personality I, and my good friend, give her in photos. "Oh man, she's so messed up, but I love her!" is a common phrase I hear in regards to her. I know Guide is in a similar situation. His dolls aren't pretty like the rest of the dolls out there, but damn if they aren't fun! So, sometimes, having an doll christened as ugly isn't instantly an insult.


Not everyone is going to like the same thing. And thank god for that. But any time I come across someone's idea of pretty/awesome/cool/etc that I might not agree with, I just think "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, maaaan."

 

I admit that I have been accidentally rude when trying to compliment someone. I hope she doesn't believe I was being so X.x
My dolls are not all pretty, I will not deny that one bit. I know that others think that (the lack of faceups amongst my lot doesn't help, I only have so much money though) but I've not heard anyone say it to me (even though I did ask once about such)

 

Yes. Though I'm not sure if the person knew they were being offensive, but they often say things along the same line of rudeness after they say something nice. I get very confused with them.
They also seem to want to tell me what to do with my dolls, from what colour their hair should be or their eyes or what style clothes to give them, which is very annoying. I'm tempted to tell them to get those things for their own dolls, as I'm happy with the styles I've chosen for my own.
Then again they do the same things for non BJD related things too.

 

Yes, and thank goodness for it.

I started out in this hobby wandering through a bubble of self-perceived awesome, and it wasn't until I was exposed to places like The Forum of Haters and other less-than-nice critique forums that I realized there was a great deal that I was doing that was sub-par. I wanted to use this hobby to improve other aspects of my art (namely photography), and since DoA is for the fluff and the complimentary (or the very timidly worded, which can sometimes fail to filter through the haze of 'I am quite the shiznit, aren't I?'), I needed a community that says 'You sort of suck. Here's why, and here's how you could fix it'.

I'm not saying poor manners are acceptable, but there's so much hand-holding and cooing in the ears of the overly sensitive these days that a great deal of people (in this hobby and others) fail to develop an aesthetic, or a sense for the difference between constructive criticism/advice and someone who's actually insulting them. And if you're happy and don't want criticism or advice, ignore them. Real life isn't always going to tell you how wonderful you/your ideas/work/doll hobby/so on is, and the sooner you stop worrying about what other people carrying around huge chunks of toxic materials think, the happier you'll be.

To begin, I suggest investing in a pair of noise-cancelling headphones. There's nothing quite as theraputic as watching someone try to tell you what to do over the sound of I'm Henry VIII, I Am. Also, forums come with an 'ignore' function.

 

Honestly, This.

As a person who's creating my own dolls, I've had some less-then-amazed reactions for my creations. Especially since they're only in the halfway-done stage. I still brought them to the meets, so I could show people and get their feedback on what was being done, though, and instead of taking "The head is too small, you might make it bigger," or some of the other critiques I've been given, I only took it as constructive criticism and used it to make changed I knew needed to be done. Now, my creations looks even more realistic then I thought it did before, and all because I decided to take take what was said and use it to make the proper changes. Even the "forum-of-haters" can be an excellent place to learn what you should and shouldn't do. Because they don't have as many rules about being nice there, they aren't afraid to tell you something you've done looks like a hot mess. If you don't take it personally and use it constructively instead, you can become better.

Honestly, even if someone is being really rude, there's no reason you should take it to heart. They may just be a rude person to everyone, they may not be meaning it the way it was intended, or any other number of things. It doesn't matter what people say or feel. Even if your dolls are a hot mess to look at, if you're happy, that's the only person that should matter. Though that being said, just because you love it, you shouldn't expect everyone else to do the same, and it's to be expected that there are people who won't. Just accept that you have differing opinions on what is pretty, perhaps take a chance to look at it from their point of view to see if there's something you can change for the better, and judge the situation on a case-by-case basis.

People who aren't in the hobby just don't understand the nuances and the reason for it, so I wouldn't take what they said to heart at all. I take Alucard to work from time to time, and he's been mistaken for a girl many times. My manager asked if I had kids when she first saw him and I told her about him, as if I was acting out a desire for children by having a doll or maybe taking one of my kid's dolls to work with me. My mom's called them some pretty amusing, but still colorful words, because she sees the boys as being too girly and "fruity," to put it nicely. But these people are all outsiders to the hobby, so they shouldn't be something that worries me.

I've just become very unupsetted by the opinions of others the older I got. I LOVE Transformers and Avatar and other movies like that. My cousins can't stand Transformers, and I suspect they had a dislike for Avatar as well because of the plotline. But I can joke about it with them and insult my own interests when I know there's something that is silly or bad or less-then-awesome. You need to be able to take yourself less seriously. Don't get offended by things people say. It will make you a lot happier, really.

 

I see it too often, I guess. Some people take their doll hobby a lot more seriously than others, so it's less minor in their life. But anyway, for example, why the argument annoys me so much... perhaps I'd like to complain to my friends about my homework, or that the lunch food is crappy, or that a kid in class was being a total jerk. And then a friend or someone listening might act disgusted or roll their eyes and say 'There are way more important/bigger things to be upset about, stop complaining.' Wel, I guess It Just Bugs Me ^^; .


Oh, and about how a lot of people try to soften up their opinion when they don't like something... like, only saying 'Oh, maybe the blush is a bit strong' when really they're thinking 'OH GODS. SO. HEAVY.' or something XD . I sort of just assume that that's what's going on in people's heads when they say anything even slightly less than wonderful about something of mine (art-related) . I basically just exaggerate 10x their comment in my brain. Not to take offense for it though; it's my way of trying to gather as much usable constructive critique as possible, because I know most people are afraid of being rude. I do the opposite for compliments, though maybe that's kind of bad for me; I barely even register them because I've self-trained to believe that there's a 95% they're just being polite =P . Handy self-teaching skillz, I say.

ali

 

I'd personally rather someone tell it like it is than blow smoke up my ass. Me finding out later that it was all a lie is going to upset me way more than just finding out the truth from the beginning so I can either choose to change/fix it, decide I don't really think/care there's an issue in the first place or even think they're a blind dumbass and go on my merry way purposefully ignoring them.

Less than wonderful comments hurt, but people have to remember it's not a personal slight, [I have difficulty remembering this myself]. People on the internet don't know you, they're only talking about what they see on the screen in front of them, which just happens to be a doll they have a personal opinion on. That's it. It's no deeper than that. They don't know or care about your character, how hard you worked on it or how much you toiled and saved for it. They don't have the emotional investment you do in that particular object, just like you wouldn't either to 99.99% of other dolls out there.

People need to understand that when they put things in a public place they're not going to be able to control other people's opinions of that thing for good or bad, and that's OK. You wouldn't want people to control your opinions, would you? If it's that much of an issue you find yourself having problems then either take a step back and collect yourself or don't go to where the hurtful things are. You can only control yourself and how you react to things, not what anyone else thinks or does.

 

No one's ever said anything like that to me but I'm afraid I may have accidentally offended a sweet young girl who comes to our meet-ups. We were talking about dolls we liked & she said she was a Volk's addict. I later said that I'm not fond of Volks' dolls except for Williams. I think that might have offended her so I apologised. They just aren't my style. I told her I enjoy other people's but I simply don't care to own any. (Which is the truth. I once bought a Volks old F09 who I'd absolutely loved when the owner would share pics of her but once I got her home, she didn't work for me.)

 

I think people truly need to understand this aspect of the internet. Posting photos or sharing on a doll forum/Livejournal isn't like opening up to a group of close-knit friends. You're opening up to thousands of strangers, some of whom will not have positive opinions and some of those will not hesitate from saying so. Understanding this will save a majority of future heartache over this matter.

Ah, I think I get what you're saying. When it comes to someone just complaining (like your example above), then that's normal discontent about something. You don't have to suffer a catastrophe to have a little whinge and let off some steam occasionally.

But what I feel happens in this hobby too often is that people take the opinions of others about their dolls too personally. I mean, this subject comes up a lot. To some, the opinions become a personal attack, there's now an elitist group who will smash their dolls at sight, those haters are evil, going to their forum is poisonous and dangerous, etc. In short; there's complaining and then there's demonising what happens over dolls.

Perhaps this opinion of mine is still not completely objective. While I get that dolls are held at different levels of importance depending on the person, I still feel someone else's opinion of said dolls should rank pretty low in terms of things a person should get worked up over. Crappy lunch food should probably rank higher. :P

 

Well, in all honesty, sometimes a face-up/dye job really IS bad work. I'm new here and I've already seen some things done to dolls that made me wince.
But heavens, I'd never say so to the owner and/or artist's face, no matter how hard i was biting my tongue. (Unless s/he asked my opinion, in which wellyeah, I'd be along the lines of nolimenoscurvy's great post above.)

...in general, in any collecting hobby it's wise to develop a thick hide. But I'm still sorry to hear tales of not-concrit. I guess it's everywhere.

 

I understand (and what you're saying is annoying), but it wasn't what I was talking about at all.
This topic about people being mean (almost insinuating that there are people who are out to get you) pops up so often, and there are so many hurt feelings that I wanted to say: Take a step back and breath. Just because someone's comment is not all kittens and rainbows, doesn't mean they're personally slighting you. Most of the time they just have a different opinion. Sometimes you can learn from their comment and see what could be perfected. I know that I've learned a lot more from criticism than someone who was telling me I was 'Oh, so awesome!!1!'.

Getting that worked up and that hurt by someone else's random comment, up to the point where you're calling the other a 'hater' and an 'elitist'... it means you're victimizing yourself and demonizing the other and that's not cool. It's dumb. Dangerous even. And in my opinion you're taking this hobby with its plastic dolls way too serious.

On this forum especially there are too many people who have a very skewed image of what is acceptable to say. Criticism =/= a personal attack. A different opinion =/= rudeness. And rudeness itself can also mean someone just badly worded her opinion.

EDIT: LKJ and syrinxfox have said it better than me.

 

I've been in writing workshops for over a decade now. Presenting your writing to a group is always a nerve wracking affair, even if you are confident in your craft (as if any truly creative person is ever that confident...) Yet, you will never improve unless you get serious, realistic critique. There is ALWAYS a way to phrase your comments so that they are constructive and helpful, pointing out a weakness and immediately offering a remedy, politely. Being rude defeats the purpose, just like being overly defensive.

Same goes for dolls. We invest so much of ourselves into them, that the very act of revealing them to others becomes very personal. A kind word can make your day, and a rude comment (or being ignored) can ruin it.

I believe it all comes down to intent. If one gets off on negative emotion of others - well, there is nothing to talk about, such person is simply rotten. If someone offers sincere, helpful advice, even if it hurts your ego a little - take it with gratitude.

 

I haven't ever been told anything rude to my face but I wouldn't doubt that someone at some point has thought or said something rude about my dolls.

People aren't always sensitive to others and think before saying/writing things. Other times it comes out sounding rude when it really wasn't meant to.

You need to have a thick skin and try not to take things too personally if you choose to share things with strangers on the internet.

 

I agree withKatyok here, you won't improve unless you get serious critique. And the rest of their post, too. :P

But of course, there's always the difference between critique and some one just being pointlessly rude. Although I don't yet own a doll, and my opinion may change once I do, I come from a town where people are rude, violent and vicious just to seek approval from their friends and this has taught me to let blantant rudeness fall upon deaf ears. I've had people slagging me off for the slightest things, and larger things as well, like my race and such. So, if some one said to me, "Your doll's fugly." in any direct or indirect way just to be rude or mean, and I myself was perfectly happy with my doll and felt no need to improve it in any way, I'd probably just brush off that comment and post a polite reply.

Although I have to admit, there have been dolls that have made me recoil from their appearance from shock. @_@ Whilst I would never tell this to the owner, or any one else for that matter, I understand that lots of work and love goes into these dolls - who am I to comment on those who don't want to hear it? My opinion is mine and not theirs and it never shall be. Unless I can help them improve and they want to, I'll say nothing unless it's positive. Because their dolls are their own dolls, not mine. Bought for their own happiness, I most certainly wasn't considered in that process. So unless I'm going to buy it from them or something, it doesn't matter what I think about them. This works either way.

 

I just read through a lot of this and I see a lot of excuse made for rudeness. I want to clarify my viewpoint in the hopes of being clearly understood.

Critique, well handled, is a very valuable thing and necessary to generate improvement. If you have an issue with a doll of mine because of how I have executed an effect and you suggest a way that may work better, well that is critique, if you just tell me my doll is ugly, or publicly broadcast the same, well that is your opinion, needlessly shared in a forum where offense or hurt may easily be taken by me or others close to me, well then you are being rude.

Does anyone remember "if you don't have anything nice don't say anything at all"? well I take it a little further "if you can't be nice, or at least helpful then we don't need to hear from you"

Nice does not mean fawning with compliments, you can be nice and give critical advice at the same time

Incidentally, if people do not think that the harm goes any further than the actual owner, the time I mentioned previously I had no less than 20 DoA members PM me and inform me about the rude and nasty comments made about my doll and my friends, and tell me how disgusted they were.

Am I still hurt by this incident? no. I am a little more callous though

Why did it hurt in the first place? Partially because this was someone I DID respect, and while I turned to my doll, looked at him and said "well stuff their opinion, I love you the way you are" it hurt that someone had such a bitterness in their soul that they felt the need to let that nastiness out in a forum seeking public acknowledgment, if not approval for it.

Does it still bother me (not hurt...just bother)? It bothers me on a conceptual level, a societal declination that I simply loathe. I am sure I have hurt people before, I apologise for it unequivocally. Also there are dolls I do not like, but there is a BIG difference between "is more extreme than my taste" "does not fit in with my view of the genre" "is not how I would have done it" or "Is not my cup of tea, but if they like it that is fine" and "is fugly" all are opinions, ways of stating the same thing, but the last one lacks conscience, tact, and possibly a sense of accountability. The incident itself does not bother me, the fact it represents a societal trend does.

Sorry if I am on a bit of a soapbox on this issue, but I do feel there is no excuse for wanton rudeness, it is something I loathe in normal life, something I loathe on forums, something I loathe in MMRPGs and something I simply do not react well to. Accidental rudeness is occasionally excusable, particularly if the person is then contrite, but deliberate, wanton rudeness.....no, there is no occasion it is warranted and whether the reality is that it is out there and we all have to deal with it or not, the fact is we should not HAVE to.

This is also my belief, I am glad to see it phrased and presented so eloquently

 

Yes. A friend of mine hates both Soom and DIM Minimees for reasons I don't really understand. She has called my Minimee stupid and a waste of money countless times, and though she hasn't said anything about my incoming Soom doll in particular, she's always bashing the company (even though she just bought a Soom MD). She's always pushing me to buy Volks instead.
Again, no idea why she hates them so much and has to be so mean about it, but she is.
Otherwise she's a really nice girl though, so I'm obviously not going to get how she feels about certain BJD companies ruin our friendship. I just shrug it off and let her like what she likes. I don't like certain dolls either, but I guess I just don't want to start trouble with anyone.

As for face-ups, I have only ever received constructive criticism, and I welcome it. It's the only way I will get better.

 

I have yet to buy even my first doll, but I've told people about my plans for them. Most people generally have a problem with androgynous characteristics, but those are the characteristics that I love best!

Personally, I just think about what I want, because in the end it's my money and my doll. People are entitled to their opinion, but sometimes it's better not to voice it. I know my friend thinks the Zaoll Luv's lips are too big, but she doesn't say that I shouldn't get her just because she doesn't like her as much as I do. She just suggests certain things would suit her and certain things would not -- like wig colour, etc. My friend prefers more 'fashionista' dolls, whereas I dislike most of them. But I believe each to their own.

 

Stating things that others don't want to hear does not equal rudeness. It's all about how it is phrased. There is a big difference between "OMG, LOL, your face-up is the most hideous thing I have ever seen!" and "You've done some interesting work on him. Out of curiosity, why did you choose to give him a unibrow?"

You say these statements are needless? Perhaps. But they are not rude. And what is also needless is smoke being blown up people's rear-ends to give them a false sense of their abilities and importance. That just sets them up for a bigger fall later down the line. Besides, let's face it, little of what is said on a forum is needed. It's not a valid critique, IMHO.

As a community, we really need to stop assuming that everything we see or hear that isn't precisely what we want is rude, mean, or even personal. Over time, it's turning us into a group that rarely says anything of substance, because we're too busy worrying about tip-toeing on eggshells around the feelings -- or the potential feelings -- of every sensitive person here. People should not have to apologize for having an opinion or a thought that does not match someone else's, but that is the point we are starting to reach.

Sometimes, rudeness is genuine and blatant. Then it is wrong, and the speaker should be ashamed. But we need to accept that sometimes when we are offended, it is because of our own issues more than it is the speaker's.