How would you feel if your doll was bootlegged?

I'm not sure that a "BLACKLIST!!" page is the appropriate term for it... because as people have mentioned, you get into the gray area with Dollzone, Dollmore, and a couple others where they are accused of copying but it isn't proven, or have copied in the past but are no longer copying.

I'm still curious as to how you would handle this issue, as people have asked but you haven't answered, and there is the debate about whether the DZ 70cm copied the Volks KIPS system or not that is not legally solved yet- would you include that because you feel they are copies, or would you not include that because it hasn't been legally decided by a court yet? If it's the former situation, then you're kind of leading the newbies who are relying on your guide to come to the same conclusions as you, when those conclusions aren't actually supported by a court of law. When making a massive guide like that and using as strong of terms as blacklist, you have to be really careful about how you go about it, lest you let your personal convictions taint what is really a nice idea in theory. Thus, it could lead a whole bunch of people to unfairly condemn a particular company and owners of said company when your claim doesn't have a court leg to stand on. [I'm not against 'blacklist' for companies that were proved guilty in court, such as Forever Doll.]

Perhaps rather than outright "BLACKLIST!", include a list of companies that have been accused of/found guilty of copying Volks and the details with relevant links to DoA, so that people can read the information and make an informed decision themselves, rather than just 'This company is bad!' with no explanation as to why, just that they're bad because you said so.

I think people should be referred to the list of banned dolls from DoA and then allowed to make their own decisions about what to buy. People really do need to research their dolls, and while it's nice to have a central place where people can see what copies are out there, I'd caution against trying to hold people's hands as they venture into the world of doll buying, because that always ends up backfiring.

ETA: Hypothetical 'you' and hypothetical situation, not meant as a personal attack. I said it in reference to anyone who would make such a list.

 

I didn't answer that because Volks hasn't been copied by Dollmore, I have no reason to put Dollmore on my list.

As for DZ and the 70cm body, I will probably list them in a Pending category, and note that legally it is still just suspicion and no sentence has been brought forth yet. Until Volks specifically says DZ is the company they're pursuing, I won't say anything definitive.

Right now I'm just working on updating image galleries on the site, I rarely add new sections without mulling over them for days or weeks. Despite having my mind made up on the companies, others' comments on the site are always taken into consideration.

 

Right, as I'm saying, it was a hypothetical situation, and I wasn't trying to attack you or hurt you.

You simply have a very respected Volks site, and people are going to read your webpage and take what you say to heart, and I know you're not the biggest fan of DZ, so I was just worried about being able to separate personal feelings/opinions from fact when you post the webpage.

I have nothing against warning people using facts, it's just when opinions get mixed into the fray that things become sticky. And that can happen VERY easily when people have strong opinions about things. When you're an influence to lots of people in a fandom, you do have to watch what you say a bit. It's the dark side of being well-known.

I do agree that it's a good idea, again, just so long as it sticks to court-legal facts rather than opinions and speculation. ^_^

 

To be honest I'm worried that a web site like that is going to be so biased toward Volks. There are copy's out there that need to be bought to peoples attention that aren't Volks copy's. I also get this feeling that cuz a company had an issue with copying they will be listed as being a company you shouldn't buy from. There's a fine line between making people aware of what they are buying and telling them not to buy something. I'd be happier if something like this was added to it (sorry I stole this from another thread)

 

I'm not refusing to talk about other copies to spite anyone, I'm abstaining from doing so because I don't think it's my place to. If someone wants to make a Dollshe site, or a Dollmore site, to discuss copies in a level-headed manner then that's more power to them and I think they should go for it.

But yes I will be listing Forever Doll as a defunct company whose dolls should never be bought, and will be saying Lolidoll is an active company to avoid. I don't see how anyone can justify the trash bootlegs they've made.

 

Whoa I didn't say anything about spite I just said it was biased, but then again it would be unfair to ask you to comment on something you don't know about. My bad. I have a few pics of a doll from Forever Doll from e-bay if you need them (don't if you already have them though).

 

I do think one page addressing the issue, with all the cases, would be ideal. It would have to be unbiased, though, and strictly factual. Which would be hard to do in this hobby, because the idea of copying rouses different emotions from different people. Some people don't care about the issue until their own doll is copied, others don't care at all, still others ignore it completely. I think how divisive the issue is hurts the hobby almost as much as the bootlegs themselves ^^

Personally, I wish there were a page addressing it in an unbiased way, complete with the proven cases, and a page for speculation (clearly marked as such) without running into bias and paranoia (such as the Dollshe/Dollmore case, where accusation has been made, and proof presented, but there has been nothing proven legally yet).

 

I agree, a master page would be nice, but since only one case has actually been brought to court and settled, it'd be even less helpful than my site which will have the Lolidoll mention. This ensures the lack of possibility for an unbiased giant list page

 

oo; I have a woori that was copied before...so while I think its wrong, I still find it amusing that they copied woori xDDD

 

I'm a striving artist, and I get upset when I see art getting stolen from place to place. It's the artists' work alone, and should never be copied.
Same goes for dolls. I don't think I could ever cope with wanting/owning a bootleg dollfie.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Dollzone's Lynn was a Woori and that they have a history of copying. And yes, I told someone thinking about a Dollzone about their past, and they chose to buy from a different company.

I think people should know things up front, what they choose to do with that information is up to them.

 

I would feel very upset and depressed, but I could never bring myself to throw away or burn the doll. I just couldn't.

 

I think I'm going to be a definite minority here. Just so the record is clear - I DO NOT support bootlegging, and I don't think it's right.

However... blah, I don't know how to say this.

Personally, I find a lot of things to be very overpriced. When you add up the materials costs, equiptment costs, the cost of paying the people to produce it, etc. - it just DOESN'T add up to what people sell things for. I understand that companies are trying to make a profit, but a lot of the time I think they go WAY too far. Because of this, I think they're almost getting their own when they end up bootlegged. If someone can get all the materials needed to produce a good that's almost an exact same copy of another good, then why shouldn't people be motivated to buy it? It's not right from a moral standpoint, but in today's day and age... people do a lot of things that aren't necessarily "right," and that's just human nature. Some will be obsessed with having the shiny expensive official thing, but others won't have any problem buying something cheaper. Bootleggers exist because people give them a market where they can.

Personally, I couldn't buy a doll that I knew was bootlegged. If I found out later that it was, I'd be upset and angry if I paid the full price for it - but if a bootleg copy of a doll I already had was made, I wouldn't really care if people bought it. That's not my business - it's theirs and the laws.

I've actually just purchased a Dollzone Xi. I know the company has had it's shady spots, but as far as I'm concerned, Xi isn't a bootleg, he's the only doll I can afford, and to me, that's what matters.

 

On this note, the DZ Lynn doll was made with polystone, a composite material that is only part resin. The doll was very low quality, Liria said the polystone also cost 1/10th of CP's resin used on Woori, yet DZ charged only a marginally lower price for this inferior copy. It's been said DZ has changed their casting materials to actual resin, but this is something to keep in mind with the old DZ dolls with Kid Delf bodies and "unique" heads when buying second hand.

 

I know there's a trade-off with quality, which is why I mentioned that it's almost the same, but some people'll take that risk, especially if they have less financial means. Considering BJDs aren't meant to be manhandled and should be treated very carefully anyway, even dolls made of lesser materials should hold up almost as well if you treat them that carefully. Cruddy bootlegs that fall apart aren't going to get sold much anyway - a few people will be suckered in, but once the word gets out, the bootlegger won't have the means to keep making a good enough profit off of it to keep it going.

Eh, I don't know. Maybe it's just me; I've never felt the need to have top quality items.

 

I don't think legit bjd companies deserve to have their creations copied when they spent hours creating an original sculpt. While materials might not cost much, the amount of time they put into creating original dolls, for me, justifies the cost.

 

I don't buy your logic here. I strongly feel the companies charge fair prices for the products they put out. They spend countless hours upon hours sculpting, molding, casting and painting these dolls and they are working quite hard and diligently to create the best product they can make. Why should they undercut their prices with the massive amount of work that goes into creating these dolls? Even taking away the amount of time it takes to just create a new sculpt, casting these dolls is a a process that takes a lot of care and time to do. How does the fact that they 'overprice' something they spent so much time and love on to create somehow makes them more deserving to have their hard work ripped off by someone who can make a cheap copy in a much shorter time frame who can charge a lower price? No one who puts that amount of time in to create something new and original ever deserves to have their work ripped off.

 

I hate the idea of bootlegged dolls. Like Barry said, it's like carrying around some designer bag like Louis Vuitton but it's really fake, and yet you still act all high and mighty about it. Nothing is right about bootlegs.

You make an excellent point Hitasura. It's like somebody plagerising a book or copying a piece of art, bootlegging something that somebody worked so hard on is completely wrong. I don't care if you don't have enough money for the real thing, that is just annoying and crushing for the artist to have their work copied.

 

Aside from the fact that bootlegged items are stealing another person's property, intellectual, artistic, etc., I'm not sure why anyone would not want a good and/or excellent quality item, whatever it may be. I personally work hard for what I pay for, especially for these dolls as I would like to one day pass them down in my family and I would prefer for it to last that long rather than a few years because the quality was cheap in addition.