If Soom released their monthly dolls as a basic line next year, how would you feel?

RaChEltheRabidRabbit - I'm agreeing with hellsingmongrel here, I do understand the content of what people are getting upset about, I just do not think that until someone conclusively has ALL of the facts about how she came to be re-released, we have no right to accuse SOOM of 'manipulation', 'lying' or 'not caring' about their customers. I also do believe that a lot of negative reaction/comment has been based on an emotional level, which is not reliable or trustworthy as everyone is different....to vere slightly OT here, crimes of passion are emotional responses...doesn't make them right!

I've not seen any information so far and especially on Beryl's original webpage that says conclusively that 'we promise that this doll and ALL her parts will never be released again'. Point me to that information and I will be perfectly happy to accept this other viewpoint that SOOM have been deliberately misleading.

On another level, I don't even think it is any of our business to question what a doll company does....as long as they have fulfilled the contract to supply the item exact to the description of that which we have paid for and done this in a timely manner etc...their obligation to the individual surely ends there.

edit note: vampireanneke - I agree people have a right to be upset if they want to, but make sure all the facts are known before slandering a company's name. Also, a home is one of mans basic needs, as in shelter, just like food and water...a doll falls a long way a way from any basic needs I know of.

 

exactly gelfling, that was what i was saying earlier

soom never made a massive public announcement saying these dolls would never be rereleased, like i said earlier, the "no" answers were likely just what the person who answers questions on the site said because that is what they knew at the time, or they thought the person was asking for an exception

and they were not lying if they said no to a basic release, this new beryl is NOT a basic doll

so saying soom is going around deliberately lying to force you to buy their dolls is just extreme and needless

 

I've been watching this thread, and while I'm utterly appalled at some of the attitudes, I'm also really glad to see a few people talking some sense and supporting a company who have been tirelessly creating incredible, innovative works of art for this community to own.

You know... given the development time (yes... time = money!) and materials for one of these MDs vs the price vs the limited time period they are sold for, it would probably occur to most people with SENSE that Soom can't be making a MASSIVE profit on these dolls. The idea that they have been 'lying' to 'rob' people of their money is just ludicrous and I think you would have to actually be demented, paranoid, and/or completely out of touch with reality to think that.

Also, when have Soom ever indicated on their sales pages that these dolls were sound, guaranteed investments? When have Soom indicated that your doll would maintain or increase its value? When have they ever sold anything except what is effectively a very niche collectible adult toy? They are not liable in any way for what occurs on the second-hand market and as far as I see it, the term 'Limited Edition' is pretty loose, and they have signed no contracts with their customers to say your doll will never be re-released in any way, shape or form. Really, who do you think you are to tell them what they can and can't do with their own artwork? You own a cast, and have absolutely no rights to dictate what they choose to do with the original.

When it comes down to it.... get some perspective. These dolls are expensive for a doll, but in the grand scheme of things, if your Soom MD depreciates by what... $100 - $200 because the company releases another version of it, can that REALLY make or break you financially in the long run? Have you factored in that these dolls may go completely out of fashion and be worth nothing in ten years? If not... well... you really should, and maybe invest in some gold bullion instead. Wouldn't be quite so fun though, would it?

 

This is a good point. People need to remember that the materials these dolls are made of aren't eternal. In 15 years most dolls bought now will likely to be yellowed/green/orange/god knows what to the point of no return. these dolls arent a good idea if you are looking for a long term investment.

 

To me if soom actually did say they wouldnt rerelease the doll on there website ever again and then were to rerelease it Id agree about them being liers etc. But if people are just saying it was limited and didnt have anything saying that on the site then I would have to be on soom's side. Either way promises should be kept.

 

Agreeing so hard with all of this.

 

Value? Really? And here I thought I bought mine with smiles and unicorn farts... >.> ... Sorry, but this kinda just made me go 'well duh...'

We're all aware that our dolls have value, that isn't the point... what those of us who understand SOOM's actions are trying to say is that Beryl - Love Me or Die and Beryl - Neverending Dreams are two DIFFERENT Beryls. I mean... you can't take this new Beryl's head and Frankendolly it with Beryl parts then claim it's an '08 Beryl... The original Beryl parts will not lose value, though if they do, it won't be by much! For those of us who love our MDs and choose to keep and cherish them, resale value DOES NOT COMPUTE. Why would we sell dolls that we love and are attached to? The original Beryls WILL STILL be rare!

The only people that this will seriously effect are those who scalp dolls! Most people who buy MDs (or any doll) do so because they want to keep the doll (therefore won't sell it!).

Should I feel bad for someone who buys a completely blank Yrie for $327 + shipping and then resells it immediately on the MP for $600? Hell no!

Should I feel bad for the people who actually pay that much for the doll? Well, I feel bad that they had to buy it at such a ridiculously inflated price, but it was their choice to purchase it at that price. Maybe there were circumstances preventing them from buying during the sale period, maybe they hadn't entered the hobby until after the doll's sale period ended (ex: me and Hati/Skoll). However, regardless of reason, they now HAVE and LOVE the doll. Are they immediately thinking about how much profit THEY can make off the doll? I highly doubt it.

Also, lets not compare a luxury item (doll) to a needed item (home)... a home is in a COMPLETELY different ballpark...

Sorry guys... bit of a rant ^^;

 

Lol, that made me giggle.

 

It seems like the words "promise", "guarantee", etc. keep appearing as part of the argument.

Have you ever noticed that often, doll companies use a certain wording when asked about future doll releases? I don't know if Soom does this, but I've seen quite a few of them respond to queries of "Will you release so-and-so doll in the future?" with "We have no plans to do so at this time", or a pretty similar sentence. That phrasing, "no plans", appears again and again. Not "we guarantee not to release it again". Not "we promise we'll never release it again, don't worry." Just...no plans. And that's usually the truth of the matter - that the company does not plan to release it at the time of asking. Later, they might actually have such plans.

I have never once seen a company say that they "promise" or "guarantee" not to release a doll in the future - in other words, I've never seen them treat it as though a lack of plans to make the doll is a good thing for the buyers. In fact, usually they take an apologetic tone when telling an asker that they don't think they'll make a doll in the future. Therefore, the way I see it, statements that Soom made in the past about not making more of limited sculpts were not a guarantee to original buyers that, oh don't worry, your doll will remain rare and exclusive. Rather it was an apologetic sort of warning that, oh hey, people might not ever be able to get this doll again, we're sorry about that. When the idea came to them to make a rerelease of Beryl, I doubt they thought "Hmm, we promised the customers we wouldn't make her again, they might get mad, it would be immoral to break this promise!", and instead thought "Oh, the people who thought we wouldn't make her again will now be happy that plans changed and there are more of her." A statement from a company that it doesn't think it'll likely make a doll again isn't a promise that for your sake they won't, it's just a truthful statement on their part of their current thoughts and plans as a company instead of some kind of guarantee the doll will really never be made again.

...okay now that that enormous block of text is out of the way , I've got to agree with Tallenvyaere's statement that even if the original Beryl loses some monetary value, which couldn't be more than a couple of hundred if she does, it will only affect people who are hoping to sell her for extremely high ~$1500+ aftermarket prices. Owners who don't plan to sell her, even if they unfortunately paid an inflated price to get her, won't be affected now. Even if what they have is a completely human CW Beryl, it's not like there's now some cheaper way to get that same doll direct from Soom, since this girl is NS.

 

Hi I have a problems and need help buying Soom Beryl - Love me or die I need help order Please questions or anything else send me a p/m To discutil The Details
p.s
I know is not yet possible to buy her I just want to save my self the trouble of serching for someone later on.

 

I've been following this thread since the very beginning. I already posted my view early on that if you got a MD and sold off the fantasy parts at the very high prices people are selling (scalping) them for, then what you actually wound up paying for the "human" doll that's left is pretty cheap. So I just couldn't see what all the fuss was about. But from reading the continuation of arguments in this thread, I'm left to wonder if what these people are really upset about is that they thought they had a dream doll the rest of us couldn't get...simply put...and that's what they're truly upset about. I mean, let's face it...if you have a MD that you sold off the fantasy parts to, you got plenty of money back on the deal and are still left with a doll in a unique skin color (so you're not out anything there)...and if you kept the unique fantasy parts, faceup, wig, outfit, etc. then you still have way more than anyone purchasing a reissue will ever have (so you're not out anything there either.) The only thing you've really lost is your pride in owning a sculpt others can never have without paying scalper's inflated prices (these wonderful dolls were pretty reasonably priced by Soom to start with. It's only the scalpers who inflated the prices so high...and yes, it's called "scalping" for a reason, folks, because that's what happens to the buyer!) There are many people who have purchased MDs and who are quite happy that others may have a chance to buy the same sculpt they love so much...those people are standing up for Soom here, and rightly so. You don't see this level of attack aimed at other companies who do the same thing, so why single out Soom? The Soom artists own the right to these sculpts...not you. In the end, they can do what they please with them, and you're not being lied to if the dolls are changed somewhat in order to sell another issue. Things change, dolls are reissued in different skin colors and different outfits all the time throughout dolldom...it's commonplace. Get over it. (And if you paid a fortune from a scalper...then that's all on you. Soom never saw a penny of that extra money so why on earth should they care about your extra lost funds?) If you're truly that upset that your "nya, nya, nya...I have one and you can't get it" sculpt can now turn up with the girl next door who always dreamed of having one, well just don't buy anymore Sooms. I think the company can live without you.

 

Thank you PoeticSoul, very well put.

 

Ya know, this thread does have a lot of heated emotions. But I realize that my husband gave me some wisdom. He told me how life is ever-changing; nothing and no one is static. That includes doll companies. Maybe they said they wouldn't release Beryl again, maybe they meant they'd never release her fullset again. But regardless of what they said and what they did, things change.

BIG things change. Economies collapse, wars start, politicians lie to their country. People die. These are the changes we need to watch.

Small things change. You get a bad haircut and wait for it to grow again, you buy a plane ticket, never take the trip and lose all $700, and doll companies re-release old dolls and your doll potentially loses monetary value. These are small things that we shouldn't lose sleep over and we shouldn't thoroughly abuse the person who caused the change to happen - I didn't tongue-lash the person who gave me a bad haircut nor the person who made me lose $700 on a ticket for a trip I ended up not being able to take (and yes, it really happened. -_-) and I don't think Soom deserves the horrible treatment they're getting for this.

This is a small change and it's hurting people, yes. If you're hurt by it, express your feelings to the company plainly and maturely and be prepared to give them a list of good reasons why this is not a positive thing for them to do. Also consider the other people who will benefit from this change. It's always hard to see the other side when you're being hurt somehow but it is always worth trying. SOOM might be hurting from economic troubles and they may see this as a way to help boost their company's money back up.

For those whose trust and feelings were hurt by Soom's decision, please don't think I'm trying to dismiss your feelings as irrational because I'm not. You feel lied to by someone you trust and that is never easy. But people tend to have a reason for doing things; companies even more so because they support the livelihoods of many employees.

 

Has anyone considered that Soom didn't plan to re-release the molds at the time they were asked and then changed their minds? Seriously people, if you're so upset then just don't buy the doll. If you love your Beryl that you spent oh-so-much on, and don't plan on selling her, then why the big deal?

I think that everyone has gotten out of hand here.

 

This, a hundred times over.

I already have a bunch of MDs, and I'd not be upset if they were re-issued in a variant form -- even the ones that are NS.

...including Bix, who is pretty dang rare and doesn't have anything distinctively inhuman about his head that would distinguish it from any other NS sculpt of his head. He's already 'human' unless you have his claw arm attached. (I don't.) He's my most expensive doll, from what I recall; I got everything but sanding and body blushing on him. This was not a cheap doll, even direct from Soom, and not many of them were sold.

He's a classic case of where resale value could drop dramatically on the blank base doll, but I really can't bring myself to care. His monetary value might drop, it might not, and in either case, it doesn't have an impact on me at all. I have no plans to sell him.

I like him. He's lovely.

He becomes no less lovely if there's a Bix2.0 released tomorrow.

There are a lot of folks I have seen who share the sentiment that he's a lovely sculpt who didn't/couldn't buy him, or came into the hobby after his release. Personally, I'd rather see them be able to get a version of Bix of their own than worry about how I'm suddenly in a larger circle of Bix-head-sculpt owners for whatever reason. Those people getting to have fun right along with me does not diminish my joy. Yeah, I know, some people get their jollies in a different manner and it may diminish theirs. While I can smile, nod, and accept that that's the reason some people collect, I don't have a lot of love for the 'ha ha I have X and you can't ever' mentality. It makes me uncomfortable even from the 'have' side of the fence -- possibly more than on the pining for side of the fence. There's always something else new and shiny and lovely coming down the pike that can remedy a case of pining, or saving up for something to come out on the MP, and so on.

What it comes down to, IMHO, is that resentment is just ugly. The venomous outpourings on their comments area are a great example of just how ugly. It is unpleasant to experience. Whether someone resents you for owning something they don't, for spending less/more on something than they did, for any number of things, it isn't pleasant to be in either position.

 

That's how I feel about my Soom Iv. I don't care of his resale value since I won't sell him.

 

They said "no" about the MDs, including fantasy parts, LE wig, LE make up, LE outfit. Not about the sculpt. >.> After SARD, we can still buy Dia as basics. Ask SOOM if they will ever do the MD Beryl again, and I know the answer would be the same "NO" since THIS RELEASE is not going to be an MD Beryl.

Sorry but you have a choice here. Buy from SOOM, or don't buy from them anymore in the future. When Iple House did this to my Noctarcana Circus twins Joshua and Jerome, I did get mad for a while, but I didn't vent it in the way some people did to Soom. I asked them "why" in the Q&A board, and their answer was : "Yours are LE ones, you got the chance to buy everything that came with them. The outfits, the props, the extra hands, the certificates, the hats, the staffs, the make ups (which I bought all...), and you have the priviledges of owning NC dolls (they didn't specify what, but I think there will be an event for NC dolls in the future). Without these, they're the same as basic ones. With these, you got LE dolls." =_= I learned to live with it. Did it make me not want to buy from Iple again? Hell, no. If I want to buy their LE in the future, I will. I just won't expect mine to be truly LE. There will be basic ones surely. That's my choice.

Fufufufu~ Try saying that to us who have been nagging Iple House LEs and SOOM LEs many more than those people who are screaming in Soom's board right now. >3< We choose to keep buying from them!

"Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on me. Yes! Yes! Yes! I want moreeee...." maybe is a better one for me? ^^ It's yet to be confirmed tho, that SOOM is "fooling" anybody...

Even if they have value, after 5 years or so, the old MD Beryl will lost the value. Right? Every doll, LE or not, will lose value over time. There will be discoloration, stains, chips, changing of face ups, body blushings, losing of outfits, deterioration of wigs, changing of eyes... ALL will cause any LE doll to lose value over time. UNLESS you're planning to resell the doll in near future, and is worried that you won't be able to resell her in the same value because voila! Soom re-release her! Fufufufufu~ X3

I'm buying dolls to build a doll family, not to resell them, so I don't mind about re-releasing. I'd be glad because that means I will get a chance to save money to buy more, and won't have to worry about limited time!

 

Hrm...I know some of the MD owners are fuming that they paid so much for a doll that would be released as a standard, but the point that the limited items like the transparent hooves, the horns, outfits, different resin tone, shoes, wigs etc. make it semi-void at best...HOWEVER I think it would be different if you went for just the doll without any of the fantasy parts or any of the other accessories like the clothes etc. Some would be really happy that they'd be able to get the doll they missed out on, just without the horns or tails and such, others would be fuming that they bought just the doll...but then again, isn't that what splits/GO's/the MP are for...? There's my take on it, may be different if I actually had a Limited...

 

This goes to everyone that have the original beryl and people that are mad beacause of the new one you have to take in to consideration that the original ones price might not go down that much I personally want them both and even though this one is coming out that I am also going to get pI would like to have them both because basically they're diffrent dolls and there ar lots of people that would pay for the original so please stop the crying because I would steel buy the original one even if I have to Pay lots of money for the doll.