Is it 'OKAY' to PM an Owner about Selling a doll they had NO intention to sell?

Silk - you only have to browse the forum here to see that most collectors have a strong depth of feeling for their dolls that they perhaps would not have for another type of collection. Tin cans aren't played with, or given characters or personalities. Many people treat dolls as pets or extensions of their own families because they are the physical representation of their creative ideas, that's why it is more offensive to people to ask if a doll is for sale without the owner expressly saying the doll is available, rather than a limited edition tin can.

 

But in this case, you were at work--that is, you were in a place, at a time, when your services were available for customers to use. You were simply unavailable right then because you were already booked, not because you were not at work. The customers (however rude) weren't walking up to you at the grocery store and demanding an appointment with you then and there in the canned-soup aisle; they were at your workplace, in the right place to get an appointment, just not at the right time. For me, that's the equivalent of PMming to ask about buying a doll I've seen in a Marketplace FS thread, only to be told that the doll isn't available. So be it.

However, I don't believe that posting a picture of a doll outside the Marketplace or listing a doll in a member profile is an equivalent to putting a doll up for sale, or some kind of invitation to send PMs asking to buy it. Some people in this thread have said so--as if they think sharing one's possessions with like-minded collectors is always a sales announcement. I don't get that logic. I can't make the "deep emotional connection" argument, because I don't see my dolls that way, but they are mine: I paid for them, I own them, and they are not for sale unless I explicitly say so.

I would never dream of looking at the car next to mine in the parking lot at work, seeing something I like, and tracking down the owner of the car to say "I want to buy that custom license-plate holder of yours." Did the owner deliberately put the license-plate holder in public view? Sure. Is it automatically available for sale because it's visible to the public? Nope.

Why on earth would I think that anyone else's possessions are on sale, unless they've said so clearly and publicly? That seems arrogant to me, as if my "want" trumps everyone else in the world's "own," and all I have to do is wave money at them to make them hand over what they've worked and saved for. I don't think it's necessary to claim a powerful emotional bond to a doll in order to feel that one's own property is, well, one's own property, and not for sale unless stated otherwise.

The argument that it's fine to ask, because someone might be thinking about selling a doll, doesn't make sense to me. I might be thinking about selling my house when I retire, but that doesn't mean I would welcome people who ring my doorbell right now, wanting to know whether I'll sell my house to them. If they then said, "well, I could see your house from the street and I want it, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask," I would be annoyed, to put it mildly. Ditto if someone PMmed me about buying a doll or anything else that's in one of my pictures. Yes, this has happened to me; yes, I've replied politely, and supplied information about the maker/seller, and yes, I've remained polite even when the other person pressed the issue and PMmed again with a repeat of the demand. But that doesn't mean I didn't also feel some irritation at the childish grabbiness that led someone to send such a PM.

Afterthought, just to cover all the bases: yes, I'm also irritated by the "keep me in mind if you ever do sell" PMs, when they come from someone I don't know. That feels like pressure, and when pressure comes from a stranger, I'm never sure how to respond to it. Does this person really expect me to keep a waiting list, or is it just a form of words that's meant as a compliment, nothing more? If I should someday sell the doll, will this stranger be angry if I don't contact him/her first? Or will this stranger be embarrassed or annoyed if I do contact him/her first to say, "you once told me you wanted this doll"?

It seems to me that the Marketplace exists to cover all these eventualities. There are FS threads for people who want to sell dolls. There are WTB threads for people who want to buy dolls. I think they're nifty, and I recommend using them.

 

Is it 'OKAY' to PM an Owner about Selling a doll they had NO intention to sell?
No. If they had NO intention to sell it? Absolutely not. Now then, if you saw someone saying "I WILL be selling him/her later" then it might be a little more acceptable to PM asking for information. This is different than PRESSING them to sell the doll to you, or anything else like that. In any case, if you suspect an owner is planning to sell a doll the best thing to do is wait until they put up a MP thread, instead of prematurely jumping to conclusions and pressuring them.
Would you as an owner report the person, or have your own way of dealing with it?
If someone just out of the blue asked to buy a doll of mine that I had no plans of selling, I'd be pretty annoyed... It's kind of lecherous in a way. While it's quite rude, I don't think it's worth reporting them. If I were to actually make hints of selling the doll later on, and someone PM'd me about it asking like, "Hey what's up, what are your plans for this doll because I'd love to have it if you're gonna sell it" then I'd just explain my intentions, if I have no intentions of selling it then I'd tell them where I got it and wish them luck. If I did have plans to sell it, then I'd tell them that I was in fact considering selling it, and to wait for the sales thread and I'd be happy to talk to them about it at that point.

 

I think it's really important to remember that no matter how you may feel about it, "no soliciting for sales" is one of DOA's rules.

I misunderstood this rule until very recently-- I thought applied to sellers only-- so I didn't report it to the mods when a person asked to buy one of my dolls after seeing its box opening thread. Now I feel bad because this same person, who appears to have a VERY entitled attitude, kept the items from a split with another person because after seeing the items in person she just couldn't part with them. Obviously her split partner is very upset!

If a person gets away with ignoring one rule they may be willing to break others. Better to nip that behavior in the bud.

And it would be really useful to state more explicitly in the rules that no solicitation applies to both sellers and buyers.

 

wow, i'm actually really surprised by all the animosity. being against rules is one issue. that is separate conversation from somebody being interested in your doll. your DOLL, not your CHILD, or your PET, or your KIDNEY!!

i collect other vintage dolls, and i have had many fellow collectors PM me (not on DoA) to simply say "i love your doll, if you ever sell..." i'm sorry, i simply cannot find anything rude, bizarre, or entitled about that. i was never "forced" into a sale. what is wrong with a simple "thank you for your interest, but i'm not interested in selling at this time?" and i have had fellow collectors who have asked, and guess what...i thought "well, you know, it's not my favorite doll and i could use the money, so sure!"

because let's be honest, some people do end up selling their dolls, right? i'm pretty sure that happens. so, if they decided in the future they wanted to sell, what's wrong with having somebody to go directly to?

i don't want to devalue anyone's opinions or feelings, but seriously i think some people are being extremely over-sensitive about it

 

I think we should acknowledge this rule . Still, it's an interesting discussion with people from both sides trying to explain what their opinion on the matter is.

I'm more interested in the underlying thought why this behaviour should be offensive. I'm sorry, Jessica I still don't agree. It's not that I'm solely a collector type and only buy these dolls to complete the set. All my dolls have well thought-out characters, with long background stories and I play with them regularly.
If someone would come to me and offer me money for the entire idea behind my doll, wanting to buy everything including face-up, wig, eyes, outfits and attributes and story, yes I would be offended. But only the doll itself? No problem.

Perhaps that's the difference between the two of us? I'm trying to understand, because you're argument looks solid and still I don't 'get' it. Could be because I detach the creative input from the shell. My characters would still be there if the original doll was gone. I would simply buy another doll with the same look or feel and I continue. The faces do not define them.
I love the characters. They are the ones that give me that great depth of feeling you described. Dolls 'only' give me the pride a collector gets when he/she's found a rare object.

But I can see that not everybody in this hobby feels the way I do.

 

I have to side with Silk on this one. Perhaps that tin can was a souvenir from a wonderful vacation. Or maybe I spent many happy hours reading that comic book. In my opinion the offense should come from somebody asking (or harassing) to buy something you own. Not from the item's sentimental value. Maybe I'm misunderstanding as well.

In either case I do understand that soliciting sales outside the MP violates DoA's rules.

 

Is it 'OKAY' to PM an Owner about Selling a doll they had NO intention to sell?

Not really, especailly if they have stated that they have no intention. If they have never stated then in some ways some people would think, well there is no harm in asking. But i can see someone getting really upset if this kept happening to them, which i think would be more likely if they where a limited or rare doll. So i can see why it would be made a rule. If if only happened once or twice no biggie, but i can see some doll owners getting a lot of hassle and it becoming more of a problem.

I think a better way to try and get hold of a doll is to say so in the market places since they have a Want To Buy (WTB) tag so if people where thinking about selling it would have a look and see. Especailly if a high enough price would tempt someone.


Would you as an owner report the person, or have your own way of dealing with it?

I don't think i would to be honest, unless they kept asking. Like others have said i would tell them where i got mine, or tell them to go on the market places and open a WTB thread. If they didn't bother me again i would do nothing, if they kept asking, or asked again on a later date, then yes i would.

 

If you don't mind my asking, did these inquiries come from fellow collectors you were already acquainted with to some extent, either in person or online? By "acquainted" I don't mean "members of the same 10,000-person discussion forum," but "someone you have had personal correspondence or meetings with." Or did the inquiries come from people with whom you had no acquaintance, business relationship, or other kind of direct connection beyond the shared collecting hobby?

I'm asking because I'm really curious about where people's various boundaries are, when it comes to a sense of ownership and property rights over their dolls. Clearly mine are tight, in comparison to a lot of other people's who have posted in this discussion. I often make friendly arrangements about selling/trading dolls with people I know, but that has very little if any connection with DoA. As I've already said, I find it intrusive when someone I have no acquaintance or business connection with expects me to sell him/her something I haven't posted for sale. But then, I tend to feel proprietary about my personal property. And I've been scammed before, so I'm wary of anyone who PMs out of the blue and tries to hustle me into doing business outside the Marketplace.

 

I really do think this is a boundary issue, and maybe a cultural one as well. Personally, I would feel very put off if a stranger or mere acquaintance came up to me and wanted to know how much I paid for my watch, where I bought it or if they could buy it from me. But I am aware that there are people and cultures that consider this a compliment, an affirmation of the owner's good taste or wealth or something. It seems to be like haggling. It's normal to some people and quite offensive to others. This means its important to find out the community's standards before diving in with an offer.

In my view, people PMing you after looking at a box opening thread-- when you've had the doll only a couple of days, if that-- is beyond rude. That's what happened to me. I chalked it up to this person being an overexcited newbie, but apparently I was wrong. She definitely had entitlement issues, given her later behavior.

I wouldn't walk up to a person celebrating her birthday or any other gift giving holiday and ask to buy her gifts. (Would anyone?) And while I might tell a person I knew quite well IRL that I'd be interested in her doll should she ever decide to sell, I wouldn't approach a stranger or acquaintance in this matter. And I certainly wouldn't approach her with an immediate offer. To me, to do is extremely tacky and rude.

 

This is an odd question.. I wouldn't do it, because of how likely the person being asked may get offended, but I don't think I'd care if someone asked me. Some people look at it as sort of amusing that someone is willing to pay X amount for something of their own, regardless of their personal lack of intention to ever sell it. Of course were someone asking me to say, buy something very valuable both fiscally and emotionally to me for an extremely underrated price, I might be insulted/indignant. Which leads into, some people being so emotionally attached to certain things that they go beyond even generous offers and still find it insulting, because no amount of money/even large sums is worth x.
Further! if someone were actually tempted to sell something they found precious, and while this may be another can of worms entirely, that someone might feel guilty they were tempted to sell for a profit!

Egh, but people's feelings on being offered money for something special can vary so much. I went from thinking it'd be sweet/gratifying/amusing that someone saw the same specialness in something of yours, almost like a kinship, to thinking some might feel guilty that the prospector can't have the same special thing as well. Or angry that they're being guilt tripped.

 

Jecissa,
Wow, bizarre & rude, how so? Can you not see it as flattery and say "thank you for your interest but she/he is not for sale". I can not imagine getting so worked up over an object. Is your attachment for an 'object' that strong as to think someone "bizarre" for asking about it? I am in no way bizarre or rude and if it was not against forum rules I might ask, you never know? Because again, they are simply objects. The sculpts are works of someone else talent and are indeed works of art, as are some of the custom face-ups. I can not think of anything more flattering them being asked if you would be willing to part with something beautiful and obviously unique. And saying someone is "rude and bizarre" for doing something you wouldn't do is actually quite rude, IMO.
Vonbonbon you said it perfectly.

 

I recently asked publically to borrow a name an owner said wasn't going to be used because of its similarity with their ex's. I didn't realize how unpolite was that until after published, so I found it and edited it a moment ago, because I consider my petition rude. And in public nonetheless... >_____<

In my case, if I were to receive a PM asking me to sell a doll I'm not intending to sell, I'd probably feel offended. My level of politeness descends drastically when I'm annoyed... I think it's highly unpolite to PM someone asking to sell their doll.

About faceups, if I receive a request to copy my original one, I'd decline. But, if they ask me to copy my faceup on their doll... I think I could do that, as long as they don't claim it like yours. Which I know you can never be sure... If they want a faceup, though, I'd rather create one for them.

 

Costleyhobby,
You can't have my pets or kidney but the kids are always up for grabs

 

I think it is more flattering when people say something similar to "I like your doll. Where can I get one like it? What is the company, mold, faceup artist, etc?" These dolls are not as unique as we'd like them to be, and they generally can be replicated unless the mold, outfit, etc. is so obscure and out-of-production. With more effort on their part, people can get their own doll that is "beautiful and obviously unique." This hobby is very customizable. I think it's strange that people can't get their own doll. Not mine. Your own. No, still not mine. Get your own.

And the question about attachment goes both ways: Is a person's own needs and wants for an "object" that strong that they just have to put their own wants/feelings before that of another person? And interrupt someone with an unsolicited offer? ...Sounds like spam mail.

Even though she does not go into the concept of "personal boundaries," I think Cynthia explained it best:

I'm glad that the Powers-That-Be of DOA also feel the same way, since it is against the rules to solicit someone for their doll(s). Rhetorically, why even put someone else in that awkward position of answering you? Because you have to have it so badly.

 

I disagree. While some people get very emotionally attached to their dolls, a doll is not any more of an object than any other prized inanimate object. Technically someone could put as much emotional investment and adoration into that tin can as many owners love their dolls.
The fact that because the item happens to be a doll doesn't make it more rude. It's that the person is asking the other to sell something they deeply care for is what makes the owner feel it's offensive. (Silk this is kind of my thought on your comment above about "the underlying thought why this behaviour should be offensive.") While I think it's a little tacky for someone to make unsolicited offers, I doubt anyone would ask if they thought the owner would feel it's like asking them to sell their child or something.

 

You've said it very well, Daniel Falls.

 

I think its rude to ask someone to sell their doll when they have no intention to wear it. Would you go up to a person and ask to buy their shirt or shoes because you liked them? No, you would ask where to get your own instead.

 

If we are not talking about breaking rules of any community, it seems ok to me.
They do that with boats all the time. My husband gets the calls about people wanting to buy his boat if he ever wants to get rid of it. Why not? There's nothing bad in knowing that somebody likes your doll, is there?
As a russian proverb goes: "asking is free".

 

Clearly, juno101, you misunderstood that I was talking in general and was not specifically referring to you with my comment. I was replying to your point, certainly, but I was definitely not implying you were anything.

Silk, I'm not an overly sentimental collector either, I'm putting myself in the shoes of someone who is I'm aware that the majority of people here have a strong attachment to the physical doll that embodies their character just as much as they love the fictional character itself and that's what influences their 'knee-jerk' 'how dare you ask me if I'll sell my child' response. I don't share that response, but I can understand it.

I can also understand the offence felt by other collectors who are repeatedly harrassed by potential buyers when they do as little as post a picture celebrating their new doll's arrival. Why on earth would these people want to sell a doll they've only just received and were pleased with?

I believe strongly that someone should give a little more thought to what they're doing, rather than go with the gut 'I want this doll' feeling. The Gallery is intended to be somewhere for people to share their dolls with each other, not a sales preview area. I wouldn't appreciate it if people began to believe that any doll was for sale unless expressly stated otherwise, I think it runs counter to the community spirit. If someone has posted a FS in the Marketplace, clearly they would like to sell their doll. If someone has put up a Gallery thread featuring a doll they even say they adore, clearly they would not like to sell their doll.

Beautifully put. Is putting your own desire for a doll above the feelings of that doll's owner a good thing? I happen to think not.