Luts Grand Senior Delf Discussion

Okay wow @Setsura I have a few things to say. First of all, thank you for posting all this information. Some of it I knew, some of it I suspected and some of it is insightful. I don't have as much access to the Korean side of social media as I'd like, so I didn't know there was so much controversy and now that you've laid it out - I feel like the controversy is warranted.

A lot of the sculpts you mentioned I noticed teetered on the edge of "he's familiar". When they released the new 78 body, I thought it looked a little too similar too Voice, but I wasn't sure how many other dolls out there existed with those joints and structures, so I wasn't sure. But the moment I saw RAS ALGETHI I was like okay that's... actually Littleoverbearing's doll??? OBERON and ANTARES looked extremely familiar as well, so that makes sense and I can see it now.

Honestly, I haven't liked the direction Luts has been going for a while. A lot of OG companies have been falling off recently or giving in to trends rather than their own unique style (of course there's many reasons for this, like over saturation of the market, over use of 3D tech and the economy making people need to monetize passion but all that is a discussion for later), but that's more of a natter of taste--- but Luts has been... idk... strange? I don't think it's as much of your own personal experience as you say, especially when it's more or less obvious what they're doing and people are talking about it/noticing. Not trying to demonize them, but it's just kind of disappointing to say the least. I loved Luts for their 'unique' style as I'm sure many of us did, so the relatively recent brazenness of all this is concerning and deserves to be discussed. I firmly believe that items do not need to be directly copied in order to be a problem. Sometimes the "inspiration" is just too heavy as well, but what we need to look at is not individual projects but patterns and timelines.

But, yeah that's all extremely insightful and disappointing. I didn't know about the smaller lawsuits at all so thank you for putting that information here. Older Luts dolls from their fantasy KDF era have a special place in my heart, but between this and some other things I'll be looking elsewhere.

 

LOL, I can totally understand. Unfortunately, I could totally go for Mercury if I had the money. He actually would fit a character, which sucks, because I ain't got the funds, LOL.

I have to say I disagree with most of the comments here on outright copying. None of those bodies are original either. If they are, why do all those other brands look so similar? Luts's sculpt still looks like a different sculpture. Yes, the style is similar, but the sculpts look original. Art always imitates itself. Movements happen, like the Impressionist movement. Renoir, Monet and others would sit and paint the same scene, in a similar way (I can't tell who is who or often that they're slightly different in style) as did all of their contemporaries. It's how art has always reflected it's time. They play off of each other. I don't understand why the community here gets up in arms all the time when a company wants to do something new. As a company, they should also follow what the customers tastes are if they want to survive. If you like one company better than the other, buy their dolls. I just don't get the anger.

 

^Agree with you 10000000000% @Cap'n . Luts used to be my favorite company too... but I haven't bought a doll directly from them since the Hespe release on GSDF - and even then I haven't played with him as much as my older Luts dolls. Every release seems to fall into the latest line they created and we never get releases from their original lines anymore. Senior Delf... what's that?! Heck... Senior Delf 65 seems long forgotten as well~

I came into this thread to check the temperature on the new GSDF78 I saw released... Admittedly I saw them and was put off by the proportions of the doll. The Las Alghetti sculpt is handsome...but the proportions to the new body are quite silly to me. I agree with other users who commented about Luts always jumping onto the 'trending' bandwagon - It sometimes feels like they fashion their own version/line of what's currently popular overnight. In that respect, they've lost their footing on what made "Luts" dolls special (in my opnion). They are no longer trend-setting. Instead they wait for other companies to start the trend and then release something that's been seen/done before. I can understand the comments @Setsura made though... Although it's not explicit copying - the deep referencing they do when creating/styling their dolls further underlines that they don't have much originality left in them and it's unfortunate that other companies have their niche occupied by a competitor so quickly.

On the other hand, that's business unfortunately. And Luts (like other companies) are in the business of selling dolls... so they walk that line carefully to sell their product. However, aside from the heavy referencing, I'm just more frustrated that their dolls seem to interest me less and less each release. Of course, this is just my personal opinion... and if others feel differently and love Luts for being able to offer the variety that they do, well then I'm glad they still have an audience. Even if I don't buy from them, I want them to stick around... However, I too am feeling nostalgic like others for 'old' Luts - and the newest release feels so far away from that.

 

I don't mind the newer sculpts as long as they keep their old style look alongside with the new. But I'm not so sure I'd dare 78 cm. I still haven't gotten around to order my first 75 cm Mars, so I can't imagine yet what a 78 cm one will feel like owning.

And if I were to have a big and muscular 78 cm doll oneday, it would have to be 100% anatomically correct to fit in with the rest of my dolls, and a face sculpt that does not look like a K-pop idol. I feel for something this muscular a more Arnold type face would be more fitting.

 

I'm not here to demonise LUTS and it doesn't matter to me whether or not others want to buy their sculpts or not. Rather, knowing the scene in another community and being educated on the current status of events is something that I find relevant to any doll company.

Although the current case is not outright copying, this wasn't the case with Rosenlied's Holiday body (which WAS copied) and as a buyer, the underlying individual style a company offers is important, since it often determines if I like the doll or not as a blank in general (rather than referring to faceupped promotions).

Business is business, and they haven't inherently done anything wrong (usually), so you can take anything I said as you will. You only live once, buy the doll you want if you love it lmfao.

On the topic of GSDF78s and bodies this muscular, other than the aesthetic not being my taste, these things are also damn near impossible to dress. For me, a lot of my enjoyment comes from lots of clothes and looks and playing dress up with my dolls, and unfortunately other than it's own company made clothes or other large dolls of similar sizes, there is not much in the way that's sold.

The current standard for 75s is by and large tailored for ID75 and similar, with bodies like the Eagle, YC76 and YC77 becoming more prominent, but it seems that most clothes shops in China find the current beefy body look to be a trend (such as FMD80, TD85, DK75 juicy, 2D75 mommy, 2D83), and are not really offering any sizes for them, or only one round orders and only if a minimum of 10~20 can be reached.

The boom of big dolls has boomed quite literally very quickly, with clothing support not following suit at all, and most who ended up buying dolls 80cm or larger I have personally seen selling it due to the unwieldyness and difficulty to dress. I have an FMD80 myself, and while I have 0 problems and love the weight of my YC76s and ID75s, the FMD80 definitely feels a bit excessive in my opinion and hard to play with (and even worse to dress). I'm not opposed to 75~78cm Heights, but the beefyness really puts a damper on my will to buy any new dolls of this size.

 

I mean, I'm not trying to start a debate and I don't think the defensiveness is warranted, but I think you're entirely missing the point of what we were trying to say. No one is trying to demonize Luts here, but it deserves to be noticed and discussed without the "inspiration"/"art imitates art" shut down.

Anyway, @Dybbuk hit it on the head. I think they've lost what made them special and are no longer trend setting but rather trend sharking. And like I said, it's important not to look at direct copy (because there isn't) but heavy *patterns*. Of course they have to make money and that's just the state of the world especially after Covid, but I don't think it totally makes up for the lack of creativity in a creative hobby. I still get excited to see what's in the new Luts releases even if I know I likely will pass on them. Sometimes they surprise me and I'm in wallet danger

I know companies can't do the same thing forever, but regardless of where we stand I'm sure we can all agree that it's hard to lose what you loved. The old Luts faces and fantasy parts are what I miss most, and this is coming at the same time Soom is changing their little gem bodies for that new long, lanky, non eventful body trend (like the new Luts KDF too) that I'm not here for. It's all just very sterile to me and lost its unique charm. I'd give anything for Luts to do old doll releases, but maybe it's better if they don't because then I'd need to take out a loan

But I just hope Luts doesn't get too far off the mark and still releases their cute KDFs and maybe some SDF65. I do still get tempted by some of these boys no matter how I feel. And I said this but Vega is tempting me and I half way hope he gets a head only release. I really love his makeup and it's nice to see a little gold or color in there.

 

Ok, so I've actually contemplated making a post on this thread for the past couple of days, mainly because I feel like I'm in the minority here and I don't want to come across as rude. But we're here to discuss, so let's discuss xD

I understand that most people who made a point on the latest releases have done so without malicious intent and have articulated themselves in a respectful manner, which I find great. But truth be told, I don't agree.

Everytime I see a LUTS doll, whether it's Royal, Grand, Super Senior or Senior 65, I've always immediately recognized it was LUTS (I've been following LUTS since 2014-ish and have started getting somewhat invested in their dolls since 2022, so I guess I'm just used to their "newer" aesthetic). From what I can tell, people who claim that LUTS sculpts lost their distinct style still have that idea of CP Delfs in their minds. And tbh, that's just not what they are anymore and they haven't been for quite a while now. I understand it must be disappointing for fans of that particular style, but it's not unusual for a company to not feature the same aesthetic for literally ever. Sculptors change, Zeitgeist changes and so does a company inevitably. To call it solely "jumping on trends" is a little cheap tbf. You could literally call out every popular "mainstream" doll brand for that. I'm seeing currently "fashionable" BJD styles (both in terms of styling as well as sculpts) all over Instagram every. single. day. I'm saying this as an absolute fangirl but *cough* SWITCH *cough*

Same with "lack of creativity" - I'm not seeing that at all! A number of their sculpts have been super appealing to me and inspired me heavily. At the end of the day, creativity in the BJD hobby and the wow factor of a doll often lie within the whole package of the doll and what the owner makes from it (faceup, wig, outfit, even style of photography sometimes) and less in the blank head or body sculpt of a company alone.

Tbh I don't find it particularly fair either to actually aknowledge that LUTS's sculpts indeed turn out to look different from existing sculpts by actually comparing the blank head sculpts side by side (and that's what matters!) and still accusing them of "too closely resembling other dolls". I mean, the head sculpt is different - what else is there to do!? Calling them out for somehow "stealing" (which is quite the accusation imo) because a company pic (a particular photoshoot with particular lighting, atmosphere, face up, styling) might look similar to an existing doll, is super far fetched imo. I strongly dislike plagiarism like the next person, but it has got to be valid in order for the point to be made.

Again, I don't think anyone here meant any harm per se and I don't mean to offend anybody, just solely stating my personal opinion, so I hope nobody feels attacked on a personal level! I just disagree ^^;;; The insights into the korean doll community are interesting and appreciated.

As for the actual new releases, I'm extremely interested in the new body! Personally, I absolutely appreciate the beefcake aesthetic and wish there was way more of that across the board. The style is most certainly not for everybody and that's okay but it's not like there weren't enough alternatives on the market. Not everything is for everybody. (And that's coming from somebody who absolutely loves a petite SD boy aesthetic too!) So yeah, I'm not complaining in the slightest. Call it a trend if you want to but I'm all here for it \(^-^)/

 

I just wish there also were an option to not go for a genderless 78 cm size. Personally, I'm not interested in a gigantic Ken doll

There should have been 2 options, or magnetic parts, just so you could choose how you want the dolls. Most my dolls have a gender, unless they are some kind of non-human character. It's a personal preference that my dolls are fully anatomically correct, except for the ones that are different kinds of creatures. My doll characters are heavily related to my Sims 4 worlds, so I like things a certain way!

 

I agree with @Sasha of the Crows, I’ve been around since 2008 and have been a huge LUTS fan since then, they were the company I ordered my first doll from directly! I see quite an evolution since then but I consider it just that, an evolution of style. I think LUTS still has a signature style, influenced by trends or not.

I’m quite excited for the wave of new beefcakes honestly. I’ve also been holding off joining the discussion because I love the ‘trend’ of these bigger guys and love that a lot of companies, not just LUTS, are jumping on that train. Lately I’ve noticed a lot of nostalgia in many discussion threads which makes sense! Much like anything (media, clothing, lifestyle, hobbies, etc), we all get that sense of the ‘I miss the way things ~were’ mentality (not saying that about anyone in this thread in particular, just in the general sense!) and for me I try not to get caught up in that because I feel it holds me back from enjoying and embracing new things and becoming comfortable with change because change is very much inevitable.

I do also think the insight to the Korean market is a very very interesting topic and probably covers a lot more companies than just LUTS. I do see a lot ‘The Voice’/ID75 style bodies popping up (even Dollzone is getting in on the action and I usually associate them with a leaner, longer limb aesthetic) and I think that’s going to be par the course until the next big (no pun intended) thing comes along.

I am very tempted by these new guys and the new body especially(though like @manabusama I wish they had some… uh bits or at least an option lmao) but, I’m resisting pouncing on buying anything because I’m trying not to purchase any new dolls at the moment… and in the back of my mind I keep thinking wait until LUTS opens their fantasy color resin ordering period and finally get a big stronk dude in lavender! xD

All that said though! I do agree with hoping LUTS focuses on other lines as well because I would love love some new Super Seniors. That is definitely my fav LUTS size and body!

 

I hope I didn't make you feel I was shutting you down. That's not right of me. I meant to simply disagree, and gave my reasons. Apparently, these reasons have been brought up before as you know the argument I would hope that as long as the demand is there, or even if it falls off, that they will keep their old sculpts available, even if it's only part of the year. I kind of suspect Luts always will want to keep people happy.

 

I quite like this new body, but it's really just waaay too big for me. I wish their 70-75 bodies were more like this one. I really don't like how rectangular and boxy they are in comparison, but that's just my preference, I guess. Though for the life of me I can't see any reasons why they didn't include THAT part... My KDF has it, but a huge 78 cm guy doesn't? Come on, Luts!

Upd.: Okay, so I've just looked through the promo photos again and apparently there is one where that area is covered in a "magnet" sign? So, are we getting a body with a magnet down there, like most Chinese companies do? That's actually interesting.

 

OH, I didn't notice that at all! Thanks for pointing that out. That would be interesting.

 

I'm glad Luts follows trends. Unlike many companies, Luts actually makes clothes when they introduce a new size line. My biggest issue with all these huge boys is that the clothing is pretty limited, so if Luts finds success here then we can expect more clothes options for other brands of similar size! Yay!

As for potential plagiarism, it's clearly Luts' own sculpt and not an exact copy, so that's good enough for me. I'm desensitized by this point, lol. Often an artist/company will introduce some fantastic new joint idea, and other artists/companies are quick to imitate. Think about the one-touch system, swiveling thigh pieces, magnet penises, shoulder pieces that shrug, heck even double joints had to be invented by somebody. These are all common by now. And aesthetically, the same thing happens... I only just recently realized how similar LLT's Ballerino body is to the 5th Motif body. And yet I have never seen anyone call it out as a bad thing. Anyways, it's clearly a gray area between inspiration and plagiarism and there isn't a "correct" opinion about it. Personally, I prefer to reserve my doll-related disappointment or anger for recasts and scalpers

 

The overlay is slightly less fuzzy on the product photos for body 2 and you can see there is a penis part.

 

It was so interesting to read the counter-points and thank those who replied for offering their take (I've been working all week this past week~ so no energy to reply).

As I said before, I am sincerely happy that Luts has it's audience and still appeals to many collectors. Even if they're not at the top of my list to buy from these days (for my own personal opinions stated above), I still want them to be successful as a company. But I also found some kinship with people who feel similar to me which was nice.

I think frustration when a company you like starts shifting is understandable~ but I can agree with counter replies that it is very necessary for business to move forward. There are many companies who can become stagnant with too much of the 'same'. And because doll companies are such a unique blend of business x art, it can be hard for some of us to reconcile that they must change their 'art' to stay in business vs. keeping their art the same - and lose business as collector's go elsewhere for what's in demand. However, their shift has made me explore other companies, and I'm quite happy that I have done so as well!

I certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade (sorry if it came across that way) if you're hyped for the new beef cakes. As I said, the Las Algethi (spelling??) sculpt is handsomely fine, but the size of the doll and his style probably wouldn't fit with my doll crew. 75cm is the maximum height I can bring myself to own.

 

Oh dear, they did release those fantasy colour resins. I'll probably cave... if I do, I share pics of the new body. LOL

I also think this is completely fair! It's natural and something that IS annoying to keep seeing a certain thing you love keep changing and in a possibly drastic way. LUTS, to me, still has their look but, it has changed from a stylized 'doll' look, if I'm explaining myself right (and if I'm way off the mark, I'm sorry!). I guess I'm just willing to ride out this wave with them. XD BUT also, I think collectors are totally valid in their looking elsewhere to satisfy what used to make a company special for them. I think it's also a good point to bring up that doll companies are unique blend of business and art, that's such a good way to put it! I almost want to make the comparison of some designer clothing label brands branching out and putting out a few pieces of 'fast fashion' to catch the ~casual consumer as opposed to the ones that would simply never do that, but it doesn't seem completely apt.

 

I have to say this 78 cm body is quite... uhhh...

 

lol this hybrid looks better than the actual head/body proportions from both companies (in my opinion, of course!) If I still had a Hyperon I'd be in trouble!

 

I agree. I’m really not into the bigger sculpts Luts has been making. But seeing this body with a better-looking head is making me consider things… which are dangerous for my wallet It’s definitely in my top-3 75+ bodies for now.

 

That's the funny thing about a lot of these bodies for me. I find many of them look weird nude personally, but once they have clothes on something completely changes for me.