mainstream

Mainstream just takes any beauty that could be found in the original and sucks it dry and we're given this hideous shell that pales in comparison. Dubbed anime is nearly unwatchable, Hot Topic's "lolita" clothing is poorly made, and I don't want to be able to say the same for something related to BJDs.

(There are always exceptions, these are generalizations but I think there is enough evidence for both of them to prove that the same thing could happen with other Asian things coming to the U.S.)

 

Personally, I don't mind it - I was (am?) sort of part of the EGL idea, and one of the things that people hate is the fact that Hot Topic is selling loli clothes in its store. I don't mind - I can understand wanting quality to stay the same, etc., and I know my Hot Topic dress isn't as good of quality as a BtSSB dress, but I like it, and it's mine.

I'd love to be able to get clothes more easily, and accessories; the odds, however, of HT beginning to carry actual dolls is fairly low, as they are, as we all know, rather expensive.

Just my two cents. :-)

 

It would be kind of cool, ihmo, if they became a little more mainstream. You'd get the fad people, who whould mess around in the more "mainstream" dolls, and move on, and the ones that this would act as a sort of "gateway" drug, and they'd move on to the better quality stuff. And if the mainstream dolls had similar body proportions there would be a better range of clothes, and if the pattern people got in on it *drools* I have enough trouble modifying clothes for humans and teddy bears, let alone sizing up barbie patterns... On an sinilar note, do the Living Dead dolls that Hot Topic sells have at all similar clothing sizes to BJDs?

 

living dead doll clothes are too small for unoa (at least the two that i have).. and definately wouldnt fit msd.

 

I don't know if I'm lucky or not, but I've never seen a Hot Topic. I understand it's some kind of "we take underground-indie movements and sell merchandise based on that to teenagers, yay!" shop. Or Goth-Mart :3

Weee-eee-eell... I don't mind my hobbies going mainstream. I can happily tolerate loads of little fangirls bragging about how they are so speshul and how they were on it since, almost 100 years ago, if I can have more access to stuff that was difficult to get before the "fad". It's only annoying if you are on vintage collecting (more people, less stuff). But for brand new,non-limited items, I don't mind. You only have to tollerate posers until the Next Big Thing; then they will move as fast as they came, and they usually sell their old fad stuff in order to finance the new one, so people staying can get some bargains :3

 

Personaly, I would be upset if dolls became mainstream. Not for the reasons people would think of though, but because I am very conscious of why these dolls were created in the first place.

Now, don't start flaming me or misunderstanding me, I'm not trying to start a flame war on the so-called volks 'elitism', but why did Volks first create these dolls? I've come to the understanding that Volks really cares about dolls. They don't see them as money making machines, or even just works of art. To Volks, dolls are companions of their customers; little resin friends. They truly care about the customer and the lives of their creations. To be able to buy dolls in any random shop would be really really convenient yes, but it would become less personal, and I really don't think thats a good thing. Part of the enjoyment of buying a dolls is the wait up to it, don't you think? I for one get really excited coming up to a doll arrival...I wouldn't like it if I didn't have to wait anymore, to be honist.

Though, I do doubt there would ever be a problem with fads or anything. And on the flip-side, it would be very very convinet for the collecters among us...and the lack of shipping for wigs/eyes/clothes XD but it's more likely to be quite expensive if they are imported...

Oh P.S. I would never ever ever let it stop me loving my dolls. It would just make me sad at the lack of respect that may occur...

 

The ABJD market is already heavily a consumer market-- just look at the news section, and the screams of 'I WANT I WANT!!'. No one can stick to just one. :P

Personally, I buy my dolls on impulse and for mere entertainment. I don't want to collect a bunch of them, and a lot of people feel the same way. I'd rather see consumers, as you describe them, rather than a BJD market that is preocupied with finding LEs.

These quotes simply need to be repeated. I couldn't agree more. More exposure to these dolls is a good thing, in my mind.

DDs and Obitsus have many other advantages other than price. The lightweight of the vinyl makes the dolls a lot easier to pose, just look at what DDII can do. Even my DDI, when modified, posed better than the current resin body I have.

The new Obitsu body looks promising also. The system of joints Obitsu has come up with is really innovative and clever, and I love how they have magnets in the feet of their 1/6 dolls for easier standing.

 

Heck, I'm not against it. I think some people feel threatened by the threat of "underground" things like music, movies, clothing, hobbies becoming mainstream available for two reasons: One, there will be an influx of people who like said thing simply because it's the "in" thing to do as opposed to liking it because they really like it and Two, some people (and I'm not saying anyone here...just an example so no one get their panties in a twist) think that what they like in tastes of music/movies/clothing make them who they are as opposed to vice versa.

Let's face it though...things wil continue to turn mainstream and we'll all have to deal with the OMGZRZZ this roxxorxz 'cause someone else told me to like it and I'm "hip" now people. But who cares? It shouldn't take away from your love of something just because other people are being dorky.

I know I would love to be able to buy things here in America instead of having to track them down in another country and pay a bundle in shipping; but I don't like the idea of BJDs being mass produced by machines because...I think it takes away the whole idea of them being handcrafted and each made with love.

But all this is just my opinion.

 

On my course, there are several Korean students, one of whom has pictures of her friend's SD on her laptop. She commented how these dolls are really popular in Korea.
Even my teacher knows about them!

The way I saw things at SCAD, and a lot less in England now, is that idea that people want to be unique, or at least, seen as unique by their peers. As soon as something they like that's underground or obscure becomes mainstream, they feel like they've become one of the masses again, and then feel oblidged to state "well, I liked it before it was popular!" and won't ever let you forget that.
I'm sure that's not the only motivation people have for acting that way, but that's the most common one I've seen.
I think if a person abandons a hobby or is hostile to others who got into it due to its new popularity should really question why they got into it in the first place. Out of genuine love for the hobby, or the desire to appear 'unique' or a 'misfit'?

I'm not accusing anyone here of being that way, like I said, I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why people dislike things becoming mainstream, quality is an issue, I agree. But if it's for the reason I stated above, I really can't be bothered to feel pity for that mindset. Fads come and go, in 10 years time, or even 5, most people who jump on a bandwagon will probably have lost interest, leaving the 'old faithfuls' to their hobby once again.

 

For me, I suppose I'm more concerned about the way people will view BJDs if they come across them in a commercial context.

What I mean is - most people here just stumbled across them, I think, through an *owner*, not a catalogue. Hence, they became interested with the knowledge that BJDs are much more than 'dolls'. I think we tend to see a BJD and just assume that *of course* it's got a personality, needs to be loved, cherished, etc.

The only real problem I have with going mainstream is that if you were introduced only via a conventional toystore, or hobby-shop, you just wouldn't get this whole undercurrent. There would be a whole wave of people who owned them only for their beauty as objects.

Obviously that's wonderful if that's how you choose to appreciate them - it's already been mentioned that there are lots of types of love, and you *can* absoultely just appreciate their aesthetic value - but it seems a pity not to be able to make the choice consciously. Not to realise that they can be dolls *or* people.

I also think there's something special about the serendipity of just...discovering them. I really remember the first time I stumbled across Hitasura's Schism-boys-made-resin, and I was *so* incredibly excited ^^. I would have been thrilled to discover them in a shop, as well - but they wouldn't have captured my imagination to such an extent.

I think going mainstream has problems because it might lessen the magic for the new people - because they might not realise it exists...

 

I work in a dollshop that's currently trying to become a dealer for ABJDs, at least...clothing-wise. XD We already sell Matt O'neil stuff, and as soon as it comes into the store, I'M usually the one that buys it up. (yaaayyy Tonner quality!) If these dolls and their clothes are of such nice quality (heellll, have you SEEN some of the Tyler clothes? They're nicer than what *I* own!), why would quality change just because...we have it here, rather than Korea or Japan or..err...any part of Asia?

So... I think it would be great! D We'd have things readily available, and I'd love to help people in their decision on the perfect doll, or the perfect pants, or...the perfect shoes! Wah.





...However.

That was speaking as a worker. As a fan...I don't like the idea of BJDs being mainstream. At ALL. I honestly cannot explain it, but I feel sad every time I see Naruto on cartoon network, or Emeril's face on a poster in the book store, or the commercials for the new Harry Potter movie. I don't know WHY these things make me sad. I'm sure it's something psychological. I'm an only child, and everything belongs to ME, and BESIDES -- I WAS HERE FIRST!! BWAHAHAHAHA. (you know, something like that.)


I think that sad feeling would be tripled if it came to BJDs. ; ; I wish I could explain it.


(...God, I doubt any of that made sense.)

 

Well, there are lots of redeeming points, but lots of bad ones too.

I guess what I am most concerned about is some american/other company making dolls like Bratz/teen trends with large, odd heads and parading them as ABJD. Then whenever you mention ABJD people will say 'Oh.. THOSE things...' and think you are talking about a doll with a head almost bigger than its body. (In the case of Bratz, around the same size as the body)

When people have an image of something already implanted in their minds, its hard to get them to look past it and see the true beauty of an object. Many of us have already seen this problem, when you say anything with the word 'doll' in it, people think barbie, or occasionally baby dolls. Then it seems like, no matter how hard you try to get them to see it, they think it's just a doll. Just a piece of plastic.

I'm not as... involved, I suppose, with bjd as some people are, and I have nothing against those that are very involved with their dolls, but I can look at an abjd and say that it is more than a doll, more than a barbie. If abjds become mass produced and knocked-off.. people will always have that image in their heads. A fancier, more expensive barbie/bratz.

I hope that I explained it well enough.. My concern is not so much that of quality, though it will decrease, but it is of the new image abjds will be slapped with. I do believe that the companies we have now will endure, but with the mass production of bjd it will be mostly up to us, the lovers of its original form, to introduce other people to what a REAL abjd is. Unless Volks launches a very strong advertising campaign, and even so.. They are the only company that has really branched out into the U.S. so far. I don't know, maybe someone could get a deal with some of the existing companies and become a U.S. based dealer, but I doubt it.

 

Oh I totally agree. If they did become mainstream, it's not so much the fact that I'd loose uniqueness or whatever, I just don't want MORE random people telling me I'm stupid for playing with 'barbies'...lets face it, that image will only get worse if mass production happened...

Not that it would or anything...XD

But again, I'm just not fickle enough to stop loving my dolls! *hugs Gabriel >.<*

 

The only thing that worries me about them becoming more mainstream the thought of them being mass produced by machines. Like Cecilla said it kind of takes away from the idea of them being handcrafted and each made with love. Also low quality mass produced BJD's made to apeal to more people, like barbie doll or Bratz looking ones. Thats what I'm most worried about.

But other than that I think BJD's becoming more mainstream could be a good thing. It would be more easy to get clothes and accessories for them and not pay a arm and leg for shipping. As long as at least some things remain good quality and hand made.
I remember just a couple years ago when I first got into BJD’s things were even harder to get than they are now. If it wasn’t for BJD’s becoming more mainstream sense then, there probably would still be only a couple company’s, and only a few places to get things and we would still probably have to go through shopping services for everything.
So even now the effects of them becoming mainstream has been positive.

As for BJD's becoming a "fad", I don't know, maybe it will and maybe it won't. I think these dolls, the way they are now, tend to attract certain types of people (most likely because of their anime like looks and customization ability) unlike Barbies and baby dolls that seem to appal to a lager crowd. Also if the prices of BJD’s stay the same not just anyone is going to shell out $600 for a doll.

If it does become a fad, like most fads, it will pass. The people who just got into this hobby because it was the "in" thing will move on to the next "in" thing while those who are into this hobby for other reasons will stick around. It reminds me of a few days ago I was reading somewhere where someone was saying they wanted a BJD but their mother told them no because "they will soon be out of fashion" there for there was no point in getting one.

So overall it doesn’t really bother me about them becoming more mainstream, it wont make me like this hobby or my dolls any less. I like anime as well and the popularity of that hasn’t made me like it any less ether. You just have to deal with it, block it out and enjoy yourself like before. There’s no reason to let others ruin things for yourself.

 

My father and I have talked about why exactly I love BJD so much. A large reason is: They are unique. They are hand-crafted and unique to each. More often than not, I am one to pick up on something that is not well known and continue to like it until it becomes popular, and still then I love it. I have been into Anime and Manga for 6+ years, and several of the series I began with (Inu Yasha as a main example) I found a good year or so before they were even liscensed in the USA. However, as soon as they hit America, my interest waned. Frankly because I think 'mainstream' destroys it. The dub, for me, is hideous. The people I come across who fangirl/boy over it and claim they know 'everything' there is to know about it annoys me to no end. That is why I often cannot find myself getting into more mainstream things, such as popular bands, etc. that are populat in America.

I know I would not love my dolls any less if they became mainstream. I just do not wish to deal with the people who think they are elite for knowing about them for two months, etc, or the people who fan over them and are generally clueless about background/origin and do not care to learn anything. I also think it takes a bit of creativity to own a BJD. Most people I know have no interest, etc in them.

In turn, I doubt BJD would become mainstream. That is why I don't worry all that much about it. For one, they are not what society would find 'acceptable' to become mainstream. They are much unlike barbies and bratz because they are much more life-like. As well, the price is not something that would take well with many people in the USA mainstream, as they are far too expensive for their tastes for just a 'doll'.

^^'; So, in the end, I don't really have any worry about BJD becoming mainstream. But if they do, I am happy with my own and just glad to enjoy the intellegent admirers of BJD. ^___^

 

like i said on the amy brown thread (it was off topic but i didn't realize till after i posted, my apologies):
i would hate it if BJDs became too mainstream, not because of the fact that tons more people would have them, but for the fact that there would be tons more imbiciles. we all know them. the idiots who like stuff because everyone else likes it, like those inuyasha freaks who pronounce inuyasha "in-you-whasha" and run around screaming "OMG I LUFF IN-YOU-WASHA! ITS LIEK SO EFFING COOL!!!1!11one!!! eleven!".

and i know if BJDs become "mainstream" there's bound to be a steady inflow if these types of people who don't care for the dolls themselves but only care about being with the "in" crowd.

plus its pretty damn frustrating when someone who thinks they know EVERYTHING there is to know goes up to you're CP El, dollshe Hound, or what ever doll you have and refers to them as "dollfie brand" or god forbid, "lifesize barbie"
also, like someone mentioned earlier, if BJDs became mainstream, then the people who were originally into them will also be labeled "mainstream" or "posers" or something along those lines.

but on the other hand, i do admit it would be nice to be able to go up to a nearby toystore or something and be able to buy BJD size clothes without the wait or shipping charges. and the fact that the clothes would become mass produced and drop in price isn't the worst thing in the world either ^^

 

I think it kind of depends on how they become mainstream. Like music, for example. There are some bands I probably wouldn't have gotten to hear if they hadn't gone major, because where I live, I rarely hear any indies bands on the radio. The flip side is that the station has played and overplayed some of them to the point where I go "omg, isn't their 15 minutes up yet?" But the bands that don't get a lot of air time- or at least aren't played ad nauseum- I still like, and I'm more likely to go buy their CDs because I'm left wanting more. But I'm not going to stop liking the ones I really love just because they're successful.

If the BJD market becomes oversaturated, that's going to be sad, because it's not going to be "omg, a new doll from so-and-so! I want!" it will be "omg, not another one." I can't see that happening with most of the Asian companies that are out now, because I don't care what company it is, they're not in it *just* for money. They're doing it because they love it, and if they make a profit, that means more cool stuff for us. But how many new companies will feel that way if they start producing ABJDs just to be part of the fad?

And while I can see the advantage of what will happen after the fad dies down, with getting really great deals on dolls and clothes, there's also going to be a new stigma for all of us. We'll no longer be just "weird," but also "out of fashion," and while that shouldn't bother us either, it's still going to be just one more rude comment to deal with, and it may drive more people away from the hobby- not only owners who stuck with it while it was mainstream, but also those who could have been future owners.

But there's pros and cons with everything. Do you think the first car owners wanted cars to be mass produced? Or that radio stations wanted everyone to own a television one day? In the end, we really can't stop it if ABJDs become mainstream; all we can do is ride it out until the end and hope that it isn't as bad as we're afraid of. Just because almost everyone has a TV, it doesn't mean that one day everyone will own a BJD, and the only question you need to ask yourself is "would you still love your doll if they did?"

 

A few days ago I started a thread in the Larger Dolls section where I posted photos that compared a Volks Dollfie Dream (original body version) with Mattel's new Teen Trends doll, a very poseable vinyl that, for the retail price of $40, also includes a default outfit, hair gel, hair accessories, fashion decals (in case you want to customize her default outfit), a plastic doll stand, and a carrying case:

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33086

I don't want to repeat what I already wrote in that other thread. I just want to say that there's already a low-cost articulated doll with elastic stinging and a few ball-joints that is now available on the market for a low price. I don't think the Teen Trends doll will totally replace a Mini Super Dollfie or a Unoa doll and I'm sure that the Asian doll companies will try to compete with Teen Trends on some level like providing superior service (such as the option to purchase a FCS doll from Volks) or emphasizing the quality of their dolls' construction versus the Teen Trends' construction.

If you have a young child who's dying for a ball-jointed doll, a Teen Trends doll is a good substitute, especially if you want the little one to keep his/her hands off your dolls. A Teen Trends doll also makes a good starter doll to a cash-strapped ball-jointed doll owner who wants something inexpensive to play around with while saving up money for the expensive ball-jointed doll of his/her dreams. A Teen Trends doll could be sort of a "training wheels" kind of doll for that person to practice posing and stuff like that.

I think the only downside is that the Teen Trends doll will appeal to the tightwad idiot who's always so sure that there must be a cheap ball-jointed doll in existence. I can see that person buying a Teen Trends doll for herself while smugly proclaiming to other doll owners at doll meet-ups "I KNEW that I could find a cheap ball-jointed doll and I did! At least I didn't spend $400 or higher on a doll." The only thing I can say is to not respond to any idiots who would say or act like that.

I just wouldn't get too down over ball-jointed dolls becoming more mainstream. I think it would be a good thing in the long-run since I won't have my non-doll collecting friends and relatives going "What?" or "What's that?" whenever I mention ball-jointed dolls to them.

 

For a long time I've watched anime, going into the city to these shady little shops and doling out five or ten bucks a tape to see a few episodes of these poor quality, subbed anime. Didn't matter what the genre was, I'd go and buy and come home poor but with a ridiculous smile on my face.
The only problem I have with "mainstream" is the fact that a lot gets lost in translation, literally and figuratively. To "translate" something into something the popular culture will understand and thus like, something has to be lost; something has to give. With anime, it's a toss up between truth and availability. By licensing these titles in the US, it's impossible to find the usually "better" subs, subs that people, without concern towards the idiosyncrasies of American culture, have made, as true as possible to the original Japanese works. I've read ParaKiss and HanaZakari and KareKano and other titles, in the Japanese, then in the English, and unfortunately, they hardly ever are the same. In addition to this lack of "truth" storylines are changed. To simplify, I'll mention a single title: Clamp's WISH.
Concerning BJDs, I think my argument has been stated a few times. I don't want to lose something in translation. Just like it aggravates me when people take a dub and consider it the "real thing" I know that there would be imbiciles, to quote Psycho_midnight.
It's a depressing thought. :cry:

 

Can I be entirely honest without sounding rude?

I am greedy. Honestly, that is my number one reason. I can spend hours going on and on about logical, quality-related, one-of-a-kind answers, but, for the most part, they would be excuses. I'm a greedy person and I know it.