mainstream

I think there are a couple of ways to look at this. On the one hand you have the annoying know it all who really knows nothing. On the other, the excited newbie. When someone finds a new interest and are enthusiastic about it, they want to share that interest with anyone who will listen. We have all been, at one time or another, a newbie. It's frustrating as an oldtimer to have a newbie wax eloquent and lecture you on material you've known for years. It's disheartening as a newbie to have an oldtimer rain on your parade.

I don't think becoming more mainstream has ruined manga because, in addition to the lower quality stuff being translated, there are still authors/artists creating quality works for the hardcore. Also, those who are truly interested in something, be it manga or abjd, will research and work to increase their knowledge because of that interest.

Miniature dolls are a hobby that is both mainstream and artisan based ranging from plastic fisher price houses, people and furniture to works of art. There is a consumer base for both sides. I have had newbies at miniature shows show me furniture that you couldn't pay me to own, but they are thrilled with their purchase and I am happy for them. I try to avoid saying anything that would make them unhappy with their purchase. It's not my place.

I could see ball joint dolls in general becoming mainstream, but there would probably continue to be the high quality companies also. Fads pass and those that jumped on the fad bandwagon will soon leave. There are those that will become aware of something as a result of the popularity of the fad who will continue their interest. This allows for growth in the doll community.

Bottom line, I like what I like. I'm not going to like my dolls any less if Mattel comes out with a BJD Barbie.

 

Um... guys? Less expensive plastic ball jointed dolls already exist. They're called Dollfies. lol. Yes the larger DDs ARE much more expensive then the 1/6th dollfies, but they're also more expensive to produce. They also already exist and it hasn't ruined the hobby even though they're just as popular back in Japan and korea as they probably would be here. In fact I think they would be LESS in the USA because of our general social views on dolls.

Dolls are for children, and as silly as this might seem, yes barbie has large breasts, but her's arn't squishy and semi-lifelike. lol. I can see it now. "Mommy, why doesn't big sister look like this?" The 1/6th dollfies are the japanese equivalent to a barbie doll anyway. So it's not going to change that much with the american market. They even cost about the same. In fact there are many Barbies that are WAY MORE expensive then a dollfie.

Also Super Dollfie and other resin BJD's don't go down in value, but most of them don't go up that much either. There isn't as much appeal to the glass box collector types, because there isn't really a "whole set" to collect. The closest we're likely to come is a group dedicated to getting Volks LE's.... oh... wait... We already HAVE those collectors. lol

Seriously, I doubt they'll become that mainstream because of the price tag and the lack of them being a childrens toy or a big collectors item.

As for Hot Topic, sorry to anyone who this offends, but they produce mostly shoddy goods and give off a rather bad stereotype. I don't think I'd like BJD stuff to be sold at HT, not because of the mainstream thing but because I don't want even more people thinking that BJD's are a trendyperkygoth thing. ><

I've already had this problem. The "arn't those anime dolls.... with big boobs?" is another popular one it seems. Though I know that this one comes from the SUPER large chests on some Dollfies. You know the ones, they're so large it makes me go into fits of giggles. Anyway, due to the gothic lolita thing and publicity at certain cons, BJD's already have a little of a rep for being an EGL thing.... -_-

Personally I don't mind things going mainstream, what I do dislike though is things losing meaning and people thinking the wrong thing about things. It's like with certain people and mentioning I like gaming, or rpgs, or anime, or manga. People assume I have no social skills or watch porn all day or something equally stupid.

I'm going to have enough problems already with people saying "You spent HOW MUCH on a doll?!?", I don't need people assuming I'm something I'm not on top of it.

 

i don't think bjds will ever be mainstream. most people will not pay over $20 for a doll.

i think i would be okay if the situation was the same as in japan. were there are volks stores and doll magazines. and people know about the hobby. i would love for it to be easy to buy doll clothes in person.

however, i don't think bjds will ever get that popular.

 

I think it is more easygoingness than anything. It is good to not be worried about what others would think of the things you like. It means not being afraid to like obscure, nerdy things that makes others think you are weird. But it also includes not being afraid to like something that is popular, despite the fact that it makes others think you are un-unique. (EX: I have a guilty Spice Girl pleasure. shh)

 

O_O Not at the one near my house, they didn't. Which is either because I was too short to notice, the Toys R Us was ghetto, or I'm really younger than you people. (15 years old?)

Wow... I would've liked a Mackie doll too. ><; And of course I go to Toys R Us now, and there's only regular ol' Barbie, and "OMG Look I'm in a CGI Movie!!1!" Barbie. That and what I fondly refer to as L'il Ho' Dolls.

 

Well I'm only 18, but I think I stopped buying Barbies when I was around 12, so you may have been too young..my parents didn't buy me the expensive ones when I was younger than that. If I recall correctly, they started gradually getting less and less new ones, then they sold off the old ones and took the display down. Then of course they remodeled and the Barbie section totally changed..for the worse

 

I'm sort of split on this. On the one hand, if BJD's were mass produced by some American company, I'm sure they'd be more cheapily made and more readily available. If that happens, where would that leave Volks and all the other Asian doll companies? They'd probably loose a lot of business...the LA store would probably have to close. It'd be like a Wal Mart sort of thing. Same thing with videogames. The market is filled with a glut of crappy 3rd party games whose sole purpose is to appeal to the mass audience, so you get crap like fantastic 4 games. Imagine if that mentality transfered to the BJD world! People who know nothing of BJD's or what they mean will see them sitting in their local store and pick them up like anything else. A demand for all sorts of American tastes would be injected into them, totally destroying what they're all about. I think they'd loose a lot of their soul..if not all.

On the other hand, it would be comforting that so many people share a BJD interest, and wouldn't look at people carrying their dolls around as all that weird. Also, since they do come from Asia, who's to say that these companies wouldn't be the major players, only growing bigger and spreading their stores all over the country. I see that as a more realistic scenario, since Volks is the first to do so. If they do become mainstream, I just hope it's done right....I'd hate to see Barbie as a BJD...Now THAT would be selling out.

 

*slogs through five pages, surfaces*
Well it seems to me we have two parties. The no, I'd prefer ABJD to stay the way they are and the progress is good, but not at the expense of/quality/detail etc.
I don't think Mattel will really do much more than Teen Trends (unless they have some Asian market reasearchers). They are more interested in making large quantitites of widely appealing dolls at a low cost. I buy Barbies (none recently but, whatever) and I can tell you, the velcro quality has gone down. It used to be nice but now it's cheap @$!& that won't hold but certainly looks nicer and may minorly reduce the cost. All for the sake of cost, they reduce quality and I don't see that as being a sign of someone who would market large, expensive dolls to a small market.

BJD however are more akin to vintage cars, clothes, weaponry, porcelain dolls, steam locomotives etc. They each have a specific market and the people who are in that hobby are considered a bit odd by the outside world. People don't tend to just wham OMG, I want one, I want one! Usually you either see an example of the hobby and think wow, that's neat and then you get into it, or you go to a show or convention and see these things, sometimes only in passing but it catches your interest just long enough for you to get into the hobby.

I certainly wouldn't be into BJD, J-rock, or lolita if I hadn't been into anime/manga. It's hard to find this [ABJD] as a hobby.
Therefore, the potential for market growth is limited. BJD will never be huge and mainstream unless it's some cheap crap-tastic rip-off that wouldn't even be in the same league.
Just like certain anime, movies, manga, books and hobbies have select followings, so do BJD and those who don't understand (in this case the majority of North America) the aforementioned things (for example: The Rocky Horror Picture Show, you either love it or go WTH?) just won't get into the hobby. How likely is it to see a millionaire actress toting a BJD instead of a ridiculously small dog? Not very and with our 'dolls are kids toys' stigmatism I hardly see teens and above buying them. Also your average mom sure isn't dropping $500 on a doll for her 6 year old daughter.

In the unlikely event BJDS got mainstream, the true adoring fans would need to protest through not buying anything that was bad quality. The cheap trend jumpers might, but once the fad is over, those companies would suffer and perhaps go out of business.

Admitedly, we are experiancing growth, the Volks LA store, the birth of the Korean companies, more in hobbyists producing doll related goods and able to make profit out of it.
We will unlikely ever go through the popularity of Barbie, BJD are just not viable to mass produce unless there was a flood of new collectors (who would have had to have bought the legitimate dolls). However, one hopes they would be smart enough that by the time BJD went into mass production, they would not buy them.

Clothing quality, would be dependant on sales. Once a company knows it can charge $40.00 US for a nice, tailored, working pockets coat, they will probably keep making it that way rather than making a cheap one to appeal to the market. This is really dependant on market size and surplus and demand though. There are reasons for BJD being expensive and if people can't appreciate that, then they don't belong here.

 

*skim skim skim*

I can see it now:
"Mattel, selling you the unique ABJ-dolls everyone else has!"

Frankly, I'm in between.

I HATE elitism. I see quite a few people making a tiny but ever so irritating remarks which clearly imply that Volks is the one and only and the rest are just mass-producing copycats and so on and so forth. Granted, I *really* think Luts should take El and Lishe off the market... like... soonishly please? They aren't unique anymore. Every other person has either this or that now and they oddly enough almost look pretty much the same thanks to people who don't bother to look into so much as changing the wig by themselves OR even consider the fact that Luts does indeed do make-ups per request.
I think it's nice that you don't have to take the camel to travel on the top of the mountain behind the waterfalls and the sea that's full of piranas and sharks to get a doll. But I also like it that you can't just walk into your local neighbourhood shoppe and buy a doll for... oh.... few tens of bucks. I like the fact that getting a doll isn't impossible, but you do need to go through some effort ( ideally ) to get a doll. Even if the effort is just to save for the doll ( however seeing spoilt kids who hardly have a grasp on how big of a money 300+ dollars is getting their third doll within a year makes you think that saving in the end isn't really that hard ).

Why *should* people know what that thing you're carrying so lovingly around is? Why can't they just take it for antique porcelain doll or a marionette or an oversized barbie. What does it matter? Why should everyone know that you have a genuine asian ball jointed doll that costs something between 300-2000 dollars, give or take? Actually, while I don't have the habit of carrying my dolls around for no good reason, I am more relieved about carrying them in public when people around me DON'T know they could easilly make a few hundred bucks with them in Ebay should they manage to snatch them from me.

Then again, why should you be the one and only one allowed to have any kind of doll at all? Isn't it fun to be able to share - whatever you can share within this hobby - with other people? Isn't it fun to be able to take something and customize it how you see fit and then see what others have done ( or the other way around ) with the same dolls? Isn't it interesting to see how you can take the doll Blah and turn it into something and then see when someone else has done the complete polar opposite? And both dolls look completely marvellous?

Yes? No? Bleh... I'm too tired...

 

Their popularity will probably continue to grow for a while, but realistically, I don't think ABJDs are ever going to be other than a niche hobby. Even the ubiquitous Barbies and Fashion Dolls are still a niche hobby, if we are talking collectors instead of 5-year-old girls.

I don't believe even the niche hobby of genre costuming & cosplay, which appeals to a much wider range of people, will ever be "mainstream", though there will likely always be costumers of some sort basing their work on trendy pop culture, as there have been for thousands of years.

 

very well said and totaly ditto

I gotta say..I´m some kind of a split here too..you know.. We´d all like to share something we love so much ( but only if it´s going to be apreciated); We´d all like some of it all to be easier,such as being able to see some of the stuff we buy in person (this bums my non-BJD related friends out particularly...god as if they did´nt purchase stuff off ebay too!) And I don´t care what people would think at all. But also to take in account on the other hand...the stupid habit most people has of following trends without bothering to know more about the subject, just because "it looks cool" (e.g. music)...just drives me nuts

I was into grunge music ever since I was like 10 (yup an elder brother´s ill influence) of course I was the weird girl, then Cobain dies and suddenly eeeeveryone likes nirvana... oh surprise surprise

How many people have you seen wearing a tatoo without knowing what the hell it means at all? I once asked a girl about her tatoo " (an ohm symbol) and she just answered it was " A COOL 3!!!" Come on...people sometimes can behave like caddle

this would be the only thing that sets me back..other than that...let BJDs spread around the world !!!!muahahahahhaha

 

I too find elitism distasteful. But at the same time, I don't ever see these dolls becoming mainstream. The price tag alone will keep that from happening, plus, they are not child friendly.

Someone like Mattell or Tonner, are into volume sales, and I believe they are wise enough to realize that the price tag on real ABJD's wold not enable high volume sales.

I do think you will continue to see more mass produced dolls with more, and better articulation, that has been a trend in Fashion dolls for sometime, but I personally don't see that as a threat to the uniqueness of ABJD.

And besides, I am also in the camp of not being affected by a dolls popularity. I like what I like, and own what I want, period.

 

I don't know if I agree with the statement that El and Lishe should be taken off of the market. . . . if you're going to point fingers you could also do so at Dark Elf Soo or even Shiwoo to a certain extent. If people like them then what's the harm?

Of course I'm heavily heavily biased having just gotten both an El and a Lishe (after waiting and waiting for her to come back in stock and then for me to have money at the same time). ^___^

I'll just parrot everyone else and point out the prohibitive cost is enough to keep most people away. And if not, then it's their money and I'm happy that they can support the artists who make these dolls. I could see them being a fad but never being mainstream.

So long as we make it clear that these dolls are things to be cherished and not something just to be paraded around as a status symbol then I'm ok with as many new people coming into the hobby.

 

Well said! This time it's anime for me because well, I've been reading the Naruto Manga since it first came out back in 1998 and when I heard about cartoon network and hot topic releasing items for it, it kinda made me grow ill. Ill because cartoon network just really ruined that anime sadly in my opinion and now hot topic sells anything and everything of naruto and people start wearing the shirts and think they're cool even if they've only seen like the first 3 episodes on cartoon network. Anyone know what I'm saying? It just really kills me mood on something I've put my heart into and then america just comes and kinda cheapens it. Then again, I'm just used to collecting amime through the net through fan subs and what not and watching it in japanese and in really bad quality sometimes but that's what makes it so awesome! When you and a group of friends are into an anime series and all of a sudden it gets licensed, it's like a stab to the heart. Anyone remember when Kenshin and cowboy bebop came out? *ugh* The endless conversations on chat and everyone wearing the shirts and acting like they've seen the whole series and what not. Same thing goes with sailor moon, evangelion and all the others that became "mainstream" It just kinda cheapens the whole ordeal. If anyone here are regulars on anime yaho chat, you know what I mean. Dragonprincess5959e594e or narutofan, ilovesakura7979..... x_x lol now I'm just rambling but yeah, thats the way I feel about anime getting licensed.

 

oh god that is so totaly true!!! and don´t get me started on cosplay..since it´s popular girls just wear a red chinese dress and "yeah I´m sakura" you know what? it drives me crazy...my god girl at least wear a wig!! well that made my own costume even stand out more on the bright side^^ (the bandages the kunai holder, the little pouch on the bag...even green lensesXD)

anyway it´s normal to have both sided feelings, yeah it´s cool to be able to talk about naruto with more people (sorta like the example about music I posted before) but dunno ....still bothers me too a little

I don´t think BJD would be such a boom anyway at least not in all circles, maybe talking about collectionists and stuff ..but they´re certainly not children friendly

 

Now that I've waded through 5 pages of messages... to bring up a view from a slightly different angle...

I do fear BJD's becoming mainstream. Granted, I think the chance of this happening is minimal, but, like with most things, at the heart of it, what I fear is... mass-production.

I do love my BJD's. And I know they are expensive - for a reason. Being a costume design student, part of the reason I can justify their high price tag is that many of the people who also love them seem to enjoy their uniqueness, and respect the fact that a lot of effort goes into making such a beautiful thing. The people who can hold that respect for the doll also seem to be able to carry that respect over to accessories, and clothing for their dolls.

In the past, I've been into many hobbies that helped me pay the bills, most namedly beading. When I was in high school, I sold beaded amulet bags for $40-$50 each. This is when my "style" of beading was a new thing, and what I made was unique. Nobody had ever seen them before. ...then, suddenly, they became popular. And people started importing very similar ones from China that sold for $15, because of the difference in labor. ...I had to stop beading, except for an occasional gift to someone who would appreciate it, because I simply couldn't pay the bills doing what I liked. Even when I was selling them at full price and I averaged out what I was making per hour, it was under minimum wage. Nobody saw value in my work anymore, or one of a kind bags, because they could buy something mass-produced that was "just as good" cheaper.

I love sewing for 1/3 scale dolls. But if if I spend time doing it just for me, sadly, as much as I might like it, it doesn't pay any bills. (Or make a dent in paying for the hobby... X.X ) Which means I only get to do it so much. In the spring when I settle back into a normal life again, I've been planning on trying to sell some high-quality outfits for bjd's. I've even been looking into carving hat blocks and making actual steamed felt hats for them.

If one day anyone will be able to go out to Hot Topic or Wal-Mart and buy a complete set of 60cm clothes for $10, like you can for a Barbie... well, I'll be out of luck, once again. I'll still love my dolls just as much. But the hope of maybe making up some for the time I spend on them makes it a little easier for me to spend time doing what I love.

 

I do fear our dolls becoming mainstream. It's not likely, but it worries me none the less. Like some other people have said, it can be compared to music. Haven't you ever listened to a virtually unknown band with deep, meaningful lyrics, only to have it become mainstream? And then what happens? No one cares about the lyrics, or the meaning, because it's "cool", and all the have to do is know the words to the single. That's what I'm afraid of. That people will buy dolls just because it's the "in" thing to do, and the dolls will lose all of their meaning. I don't want them to become neglected status symbols.

And, to be kind of selfish, it seems all most as if ABJDs are a little secret. Something wonderful that not too many people know about. I like being able to explain the dolls to friends or family members who are interested, because it feels like sharing something important.

However, if the dolls were simply become more well-known in the general doll comunity, that would be awsome. If, say, you could walk into a specialized, collector's doll shop and pick up an outfit or a pair of eyes. I don't want the whole world to know, but if I could bring Kiera into the doll store and find her a new wig next to the Tonner disply, that would be great.