Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

There is a for sale thread at the moment that the seller has said she wants her shipping she paid as well as her credit card fees to be paid, on top of a ridiculous scalping price. I can't believe this is at all ethical and seems a shame.

I have generally had a good experience on the market place. I have always let people know when things arrive, and on the odd occassion that I have not been able to buy the item I was previosuly interested in- I've let that person know immediately. Common courtesy I think.

 

That's just as bad as the people who put high asking prices and state 'I'm not making a profit, I'm just asking what I paid for it.' I've noticed a lot of times when people do this, the price they are asking is actually higher then the dolls standard resale price.

When people do that it always gives me the impression that A) The buyer may have overpaid on the item and brought it for more then its actual value. They didn't realize until later so they are trying to get their money back and get a properly valued doll. B) They are including the cost of their initial shipping/customs fees/action service fees/ paypal fees or whatever. C) They are just scalping for a profit.

 

Exactly! I sold my Hazy for $700 minus outfit. I sold her outfit for $70.
She COST me, in total, well over a thousand dollars including shipping and taxes, but I would never dream of asking that for her.

 

I have been on the seller side of a transaction before where I had two people interested in the same item. Both were only asking me questions at that point, and so I agreed to sell to the first person who actually said, "I'll buy it." The other person, when I informed them the item had been sold to someone who had made an agreement to buy it first, said they had thought they had made an agreement to buy. To me, a transaction DOES NOT START until someone actually offers to buy. Any questions asked leading up to that point are CONSIDERED NEGOTIATIONS. Indication of interest does not constitute a contract.

 

If people don't think a price is ethical, they don't have to pay it. Then, when a doll sits in the marketplace for weeks on end, as some have done, the seller can usually figure out why.

 

Sometimes they send bricks or phone books, though. I have heard of this from people buying expensive things off Ebay, like computers and hardware parts. I don't think I'd ever buy anything over $70 from a stranger on Ebay.

I have had a few people say "I want this" then flake out as buyers, but it's only mildly annoying.

I did make an offer once for a sweatshirt which was $5 less than asking price, and the seller said "sorry, it's on hold". But the sales thread kept getting bumped with the item and one other article of clothing still marked as available for sale. I didn't like being lied to. Just be honest and say you're waiting for someone to pay full price.

I also had a pair of eyes get lost in the mail on the way to Australia and there was nothing either I or the buyer could do because she had picked regular first class mail. Paying for registered mail or priority would have added another $10 to a $20 item, so I understood why she picked first class, but it was an unpleasant position to be in.

 

It seems like people just don't take their transactions seriously. Buyers don't think anything of making a seller hold an item for a week before either coming up with an excuse not to pay, or playing my most favorite game EVER, the "If I don't reply to you, you're not really there" game. Seriously, I've had this from buyers and sellers--mostly sellers, just because I tend to buy more often than I sell--and it is infuriating. It does not take much time to scrawl a few words into a pm and send it, even if it's "sorry, I don't want to buy your item now", or "sorry I got your money two weeks ago and never sent your item, I was kind of just planning on sitting on it for a month". At least that would be honest.

I always use read receipts on private messages, just to be sure someone got and read them; I understand it's possible to read your pm's from email alerts and this won't show the receipt as having been read, but it's kind of all you have when you're trying to get a hold of someone who's in a transaction with you. I didn't used to go to the trouble, but it seems anymore the act of buying or selling something--at least, something large and/or expensive, like a doll--is fraught with worry and drama until the thing arrives at its destination.

That said, I don't think I've ever just not-received something I paid for, but there's been more than once that it was 2 - 4 weeks later than I expected. I pay for what I buy the moment I get a PM with the seller's paypal address and while I don't expect everyone to be able to get to the post office within the next day or two, I like to know they at least have a plan like "I know I can get there on Wednesdays, so that will be the latest your package goes out".

Right up there with the noncommunication game is the white lies to either cover for something or declining a sale without actually declining a sale. I may be old fashioned but I do believe honesty is the best policy, which includes saying "Sorry, when I said I was taking offers on this I meant offers starting at my asking price, not below it", not "I have an offer right now for the full price from someone else, if you can match it I'll sell the item to you," and then bumping the item for another week or so before someone actually buys it.

I still love having the Marketplace available and it's kept me suitably poor. -_-;; I'm finding increasingly, though, that my little mental list of people I'd rather not deal with again keeps getting longer. Maybe I'm too finicky, but if I'm going to pay anywhere from $500-1000+ for an item, I expect to be taken seriously and treated with at least a passing attempt at politeness. I do my best to live up to my own standard.

 

I think, over all, there's a good chunk of decent people on the market place here.

But, yeah, you're going to have flakes and people trying to pull stuff. It's one thing to, before you *agree* to buy the doll, try to talk a price down because hey, you like it but it's got some issues. But it's another thing to have the seller put a visable hold, or payment pending sign on their item and then dodge around with paying.

Even holding is a bit sketch. I've asked for a seller to do it before, but only under the circumstances of: "I get paid tomorrow, and need to see how much I have before I can commit to the doll, but I really like her".

Honesty and communication are pretty vital in such an open market place, and when you don't have either, the deals gonna go downhill and you're either gonna have an unhappy buyer or seller.

 

I think it boils down to treat people the same way you want to be treated. I've actually witnessed people who have ripped people off getting ripped off themselves and being outraged about it. Its really ironic that as long as it doesn't happen to you its OK, but as soon as you're the one affected then its "oh sooo wrong and it must be stopped."

As far as many decent people on the MP... Yes, there are many people with outstanding values whose transactins are always 100% legitimate and fair. But there are also some of these so called "good ones" who will act like total jerks depending on who they are dealing with or if they think they won't get caught. Fortunately, in this hobby, nothing stays hidden forever, and eventually you'll be outed if you've been a jackass to someone in the MP.

 

Same here. I really expect courtesy in the marketplace and try to be cordial as well.
There are several people who, when I've inquired about an item, didn't respond to my PM
for whatever reason (maybe the item was already sold, they didn't want to accept my offer?)
Whatever the case I think it's really rude for someone to just not respond at all.
Even if its just a "No." or "Someone has PM'd me before you." or "I decided not to sell it."
That's a lot better than being ignored.
There are several people who I won't inquire about items from ever again for this reason.

 

I completely agree with you on that one.

 

Flakes are precisely the reason I now require a 10% non refundable payment on items you want me to "hold". For dolls, I require a substantially higher deposit, anywhere from 20-35%. Let me tell you, that scares off the wafflers big time. No one wants to be out of pocket for something they're not too sure of, and I don't have to keep it on hold esp. if I've had other offers for the item. This also means that when someone DOES place a deposit, they're darn sure going to pay. They don't want to just give away free money. hehe

I don't care how good your feedback is, I've been screwed way too many times. Sorry others had to ruin it for you, but I have to cover myself.

 

Flakey buyers annoy me. Not as a seller because I hardly ever sell but more so as a fellow buyer who is pretty dependant on layaways. I don't have a creditcard and coughing up 1000$ from my bankaccount at once is a bit much for a student. So seeing people mess up layaways and having sellers go the "no layaway" route because of it bothers me so much.

Also, adding paypal fees after I agreed to buy. I don't care if you jack up the price before hand to include fees cause then I know the actual price. But asking afterwards making a doll 60$ dollar more expensive?

 

[SIZE="-10"]I have had this same problem and it is just irritating. Sometimes there would be several PM's exchanged before hand and then suddenly nothing else. Case in point, I inquired about a split that someone was running. One person backed out at the last minute and left her with a part unclaimed. I think she was waiting on everything to ship before she sold the part, I don't know, but she answered my questions in a timely matter and then when I expressed actual interest in buying the part, I got nothing.

I sent her a PM and even posted in the thread twice. This person has been online, but is just not responding to PMs or her thread, I assume because there have been several people posting to the thread, but she hasn't responded to it. But whatever, I decided to go ahead and get the doll all at once.

I, since entering into the Marketplace, I have always thought that honesty and communication was key. I've dealt with sellers who have jerked me around with the shipping times and have not been well with communication. Then, not everyone leaves feedback, and if they don't I won't ask them to. I'll still leave it for them.

As a buyer myself, if I ever hit a rough patch, I always let the seller know right away and I work things out with them. I don't make up excuses, I just let them know: "Well this is what's going on in my life right now, so my payment will be later than expected." Otherwise, I always pay right away. I let people know when I've received what I paid for and I leave feedback.

Dealing with customizers has always been a battle for me. The lack of communication here always slays me. I know you're busy, but hello, I am a paying customer and I deserve a bit of consideration here. I've had one person do a half-assed job on a faceup, not even bothering to clean his head properly before sealing him. I've had one person who didn't ship in a timely manner and also ruined my head and now, I have one who is not good with communication at all. I just don't really want to go into details because I'm getting a headache.

As a group order coordinator, it really gets frustrating. You're dealing with soooo many people and they give you sooo many stories or they don't say anything. But, I'm understanding, as long as they contact me, I'll work with them. I'll even cover their shipping if they don't have it, or their portion of the order if they can't pay right away. Because I always want to do things that are in the best interest of the entire group.

I've noticed that there is a lack of consideration and courtesy in group orders. In my current one, I'm just really at wit's end. If you don't have the money or need to back out, let the coordinator know ahead of time so they know what to do. I've had so many last minute back outs and mind changes that just... it astounded me. But, I don't mind them, because at least they contacted me. And now, I'm dealing with someone who is not contacting me or paying and it's not only stalling me, it's stalling others and in turn, I'm the one that looks bad. I have done everything that I can and it's really frustrating.

But I take it as a learning experience.

From now on, if you don't keep good communication and make timely payments in my orders, that's it. I don't want to deal with you again at all. I'll cut those people off and leave negative feedback for them because it's just ridiculous.

If you can't commit to something fully, don't waste people's time unless you have a legitimate reason or excuse. Dodging people and just ignoring things definitely looks bad on you. It would be completely different if people just stop dodging and ignoring and were honest.

But, I guess no one wants to do things the nice and easy way these days.

As someone who participates in group orders, I've had coordinators who were not good with communication and who take too long to ship things. Then, a lot of group coordinators don't feel the need to leave feedback for their participants but oh well. To each his or her own.

So, I've dealt with several aspects of the Marketplace since gaining access to it. And in a place so big, you're bound to come across the bad as well as the good, but I still love it. At the end of a great transaction, those bad experiences just don't seem to matter as much as the good ones.

You can let it go and learn from it and move forward. At least you learn who not to deal with.[/SIZE]

 

Oh man, that is THE most annoying thing ever. I also hate it when they go "Add 5% for paypal fees" at the end of their post. Why don't you just build it into your price? Don't penalize me AFTER the fact because of the type of paypal account you have. That's not my fault. I have that exact same type of paypal account. I don't add fees to my transactions. I have them already built in, or I don't charge them at all.

 

I remember when I was selling my first doll, I had put her up on ebay, thinking that it'd be a bit easier to sell her there. Since tihs was my first doll, and my first sale, I was nervous as heck, and I got a buyer for her! So eventually, I had packaged the doll up and waited for the payment for her.

It never came. So I waited for about 2 weeks, and I think I sent her about a million Pms asking her if everything was alright and about the payment, I didn't mind waiting, but it was a little aggravating not knowing if she was even still interested. =\

So, eventually another week later, she sent the whole payment, and I shipped out the doll, and I asked her to tell me when she arrived but nothing. She never replied or anything!

So yeah, buyers really need to let the seller's know whats going on, or if they even still want the purchase because that just puts the seller through quite the ride -.-;

 

As the others have said, communication is key and that is really all that can be said. I haven't ever used the marketplace here (sadly I must retrain from buying another doll for now... I'm a college student which unfortunaly = broke-ness) but if I was buying a doll, or anything on any site, I mean that is a lot of money. I would have to have an alternate e-mail, because you never know with pms what can happen (or even the internet for that matter, if you really want, exchange phone #'s... but I'd only do that if it was a big transaction) I mean systems crash, the storm knocks out your internet for a few days (or longer if you live in rural areas), family emergancys occur, ect. Point is, it is ethical to tell people these things in a timley matter. ASAP! I know emergancies are emergancies, but one thing is, where money and goods are invovled; you are doing bussiness!!! And it is the proper thing to do; inform the customers what is going on. If need be (as in a case of say, family emergancy) have a trusted friend finish the transaction.

People will understand, but you can't just leave them in the dark.

'kay, I've blabed long enough...
~Chaos

 

You know what bothers me most...alot of times when someone asks for fees I can see when I send the money that they have a Premier account. You get the name and the fact they have a Premier account listed before you press the send button. When people ask for fees and nothing like that shows up when I pay I automatically assume they are screwing me over. Because let's be honest, not alot of people actually have the Premier account because it's only an advantage if you sell alot cause of the fees. I pay by paypal debit so a regular account shouldn't have fees for my transaction. 60$ extra in the pocket by saying you need to pay fees on the transaction when actually you dont?

 

Luckily, all my Marketplace experiences have been positive overall thus far, though I will admit I haven't bought and sold enough to have experienced anything close to what others have.

As a seller, I make it a top priority to be VERY clear, concise and communicative with my "customers". I like to keep things as simple and easy as possible for both parties involved. I list all the details of whatever item I'm selling, the condition of the item, the price I want for it, and, if possible, how much I initially payed for the item, just so the buyer gets an idea of how much they're saving buying from me (for instance, I've seen many a doll up for sale that would be less expensive to buy brand new from the company or a retailer). I make replying to PMs and posts a priority and NEVER leave my customers in the dark about shipping charges, services and times, or about the sold/available status of an item. I update my threads as often as possible and triple-check my information for accuracy.

As a buyer, I simply expect the seller to be honest, reasonable and communicative. I don't like to be ignored, or spoken rudely to. And I also don't like a lack of communication - I can't stress this enough - communication is crucial for any type of business, both on-line and off!
I don't like to stress people about shipping; I for one know how things can come up and get in the way of a run to the post office. However, I think there should be a reasonable limit for how long you should have to wait for an item you've paid for to be shipped to you.

Like I said, I've had only good experiences here, so no big horror stories to share yet. Hopefully that won't change anytime soon.

 

I haven't had too much trouble with the marketplace, buying or selling. Overall it's been pretty good. Sometimes, I have a bit of trouble getting to the post office (I work third shift and sleep during the day, and the PO keeps weird hours), so if I send a package later than promised, I'll send it by faster means, to make up the difference, at my own expense. Also, if I accidentally overcharge for shipping (which I've done, as it's hard to tell what it costs since prices vary by weight and value), I'll refund a buyer the difference. I think this is important; I don't want the buyer doesn't think I'm deliberately trying to rip them off or something. But I'd rather risk overcharging and just refund the difference than undercharging and risk eating the costs (which I've also done, by a lot).

Also, if I open negotiations for selling, and it's at the point where money is ready to change hands, and then somebody else comes along and offers me an even better price, I'd turn that second person down. Even if the first buyer hasn't technically paid yet, I'd never tell them, "Sorry, but somebody else has better offer so I'm taking that one." That's just downright rude, and really poor selling ethics.

I had that happen to me, though. I was planning on purchasing a type 3 Luts boy body from a seller. I'd been looking for one for a long time, and I'd made it clear that I was very interested and had asked for her paypal addy to send a downpayment, after she confirmed she'd accept layaway and she was willing to sell me the doll. Here I am, all excited to finally be getting a body for Lore, opening her PM ... and having her tell me "Sorry, someone offered me a better deal so I'm taking that one." Apparently, they'd offered her a trade for another body she'd wanted, which she could have just as easily bought using the money from selling her doll body to me.

I told her it was okay (well, what else could I do?), but honestly, were it possible, at that time I'd have reached right through the computer and physically smacked her upside the head. That person came across to me as being a flaky and completely unreliable seller. I don't think I'd trust attempting to buy anything else from her in the future in case she screwed me over again.

Edit: As for paypal fees, I don't generally charge them for things like wigs or eyes, or inexpensive outfits. For dolls, though, I do because otherwise I'd end up eating $15 to $20.

I can add the fees into the overall cost of the doll, but sometimes the doll doesn't sell for the price I want, and I end up lowering the price far more than I'd wished to. At that time, I will add fees as separate to gain a bit of that price back. I don't think it's unfair to do so, especially if it's a relatively new doll whose value should be more than the asking price.