Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

I haven't done much on the marketplace here yet, but from my experience on other forums and selling sites I think that leaving feedback is important. I always look at the history of sellers before buying ANYTHING, most specifically their most recent transactions. You're right, a seller who sold a pair of shoes in the past doesn't mean anything in the present, I've seen lots of problem transactions where the seller has had a great reputation in the past. At the same time, if no one leaves feedback, what would tell me if they still practice the same ethics, or if they've turned into a schemer over the years?

Likewise if a person is just starting out in selling, positive feedback can be an affirmation that they are indeed trustworthy. Feedback can be a very useful tool in deciding who to buy from.

 

Honestly, I sort of feel the OP's pain, only in reverse. I was gypped on something I had planned to buy and then it was yanked from under me. I did try to be calm about it, but it still irks me that people act so irresponsibly and don't even feel bad for it. I've since bought a couple of things from the Marketplace here and had fabulous transactions, plenty of contact with the sellers, and left feedback for them, as well as gotten some of my own.

Feedback can be important, because god only knows what you could end up with without it, really. I try to hope everyone is honest, because I try to be. If I have to ask for a hold, I'll explain why I asked for it, and when money will be sent, and if I have to be late, I'll let them know. I guess I'm just paranoid about what's going on with my money. If I don't have the money, or don't expect to have it by a certain time, I won't even ask about an item. Its not fair to the seller to inquire and then have nothing to show for it.

Eventually I may try selling things, and I hope not to get scammed at that.

 

Ethics would be great for business I think- namely:

-ANSWER YOUR PMS!!!
-Be courteous, don't inquire if you don't intend to pay.
-Don't charge people the paypal fee- it's not fair, they didn't ask paypal to instate it, and if you need the funds that badly, you add the 4% yourself and just list it in the price.
-Don't disappear on vacation during a sale or trade- you shouldn't sell something until you're sure you'll be available for as long as possible to conduct your sale.

There's more, but it's mostly common sense I think....

 

While I'm trying to behave as good as possible on the Marketplace, I once did let a sale fell through and also flaked one one or two things in the past. I think flaking is acceptable if it's for the right reasons and in agreement. At that time, it was better for both the seller and for me to cancel the deal, as I'd waited a little to long for shipping and saw another item I'd much rather wanted. I asked the seller if she could possibly refund me as she mentioned before she was very busy and kept forgetting to ship. I didn't think it was wrong to /ask/; if she wouldn't agree with it I'd have apologized and let the deal go through. Luckily we worked it out and I got refunded.

I felt a bit bad for flaking, yes, but I'd waited so long that I found that I could at least ask. Nothing wrong with asking although I can imagine it must be very annoying to the sellers.

I sometimes still flake out if the shipping costs end up being too high, but I never make a deal to pay and then just never pay and cancel it - I wouldn't want that to happen to me either! I try to always do what I think it's right, but sadly there are people who aren't that considerate...

(I was typing some points that I find important, but they pretty much are the same as Teruchan mentioned above so I'll second that!)

 

I'm going to resurrect this thread because I'm really getting steamed about the way things seem to have been going lately. Not just for me but for an number of people in situations I'm aware of personally, and in threads I've read hither and yon in the Marketplace.

When I enter into an agreement to buy something, I by all the gods PAY MY MONEY *THEN*. Not whenever I happen to remember, but THEN. Or if not immediately, then within the time period AGREED upon with the seller.

People want their money NOW. And who can blame them? Therefore, I give them their money now.

In that case, why is it then ok for the seller/group organizer/splitter or whatever the case may be, to let WEEKS go by with no contact? Not answering PMs?

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Now, I'm not talking about situations like a couple I've been in lately, where the seller had issues like a blizzard keeping them from the post office. Besides, the people in those cases were nice enough to fill me in. That, I understand. Life happens whether we like it or not.

It's the total dropping off the face of the earth that, frankly, pisses me off. You entered into a contract with me, dammit (or whoever... I'm not the only one) and I deserve MY end of the deal to go through just as smoothly as you got YOUR end.


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Frankly, it's not just bad interpersonal behavior that needs to stop, IMHO -- referring to the mods' post of a few weeks ago. This jerking people around when they're forking over lots of money for resin bits is absolutely ridiculous and leaves a horrible impression of the hobby in general.




The final straw prompting this was hearing about a friend who's been waiting on part of a split that should have been finished BEFORE CHRISTMAS.... and she's STILL waiting. That's just absurd.

 

Simple - Your word is your bond otherwise people will stop selling to you / buying from you. That is the only "moral" stance I take on the whole subject of trading within the market place or with international BJD / Fashion Doll companies.

If I say I am gonna buy something from you, then I am gonna buy it from you. It might take up to two weeks for the PayPal transaction to go through if I don't already have the cash in there, but it will go through as soon as the eCheque clears.

I would hate to be messed around by a buyer if/when I start trading, so I am not gonna inflict that on anyone else. My word is my bond.

Phil.

 

Oh yes. I keep my sellers updated as soon as possible about payments if doing layaway or paying the same day if at all possible, or the next. If I happen to find something I want on a weekend, and have the cash in house, I politely ask if it can be held until Monday afternoon. I don't understand how sellers or buyers can vanish unless the computer dies, or there is a death in the family, and even then, one can at least update.

But if they happen to die, I would hope someone could step in for them!

 

I have to admit I reneged on a sale for the first time in my life today - not on DoA though. We had an emergency plumbing situation and another unforseen bill happen on the same day I placed my doll order so I had to postpone. I hadn't paid or been invoiced yet but I feel terrible about messing the retailer around like that. First time it's happened and now I look like someone who can't manage my finances, I'm so ashamed.
I've not got into the markeplace yet but I've done my stint on ebay and I know how annoying it is for a sale to fall through. It's all about communication - you've got to be contactable.
Personally I always pay instantly, post as soon as humanly possible, let people know when I've sent/recieved goods and make sure to package well. I expect the same.

 

I think there will always be situations that cannot be helped, but as long as you keep the other party in the loop then all is golden.

As for plain fickleness, my original statement still stands.

Phil.

 

I just recently was contacted by someone who was interested in a doll I have for sale..said they wanted to know my layaway terms..I responded, told them the terms and fully expected to hear back..I waited..they were on and off for a day or so..then I saw they were on and asked if they were still interested in a layaway...they replied, "Yes I am still interested" that was it..another day or two goes by, I finally Pm them to tell them that they obviously wasn't interested in a transaction with me and good luck with their search. They finally got back with me and claimed they had a bad situation occur within the time frame of the Pm, claiming their best friend had died..and still was interested....
They still have not gotten back with me....

I don't like to be played with..sure you might be interested but if you can't afford it,or don't intend to go ahead with the transaction anyway why bother Pming me in the first place? They must get a rise out of doing it or something...

and with everything else, I like good communication and I try to give it in return, there have been times I might have been lacking but I'm human and sometimes forget to let people know items have arrived, or items have been shipped out or even to let people know that I've decided against an item ....but it doesn't happen often...I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt..but if I feel the person is just yanking my chain..it will be the last time they do it.

 

Yep. Absolutely. Catdancer, that stinks in a horrible, stenchy kind of way.

I know some folks who are too nice to say anything in regards to that kind of being jerked-around. I'm not one of them, at least not any more.

And Phil, while I 100% agree with "my word is my bond" and everything you said in that post, once money has changed hands it's gone beyond just giving someone your word. You have now entered into a business transaction and there are not only moral, but LEGAL issues involved.

The difference between the situation I'm frustrated with and the situation disco biscuit describes is that she hadn't been invoiced, hadn't paid anything, and had a genuine emergency come up. In the situations that are getting my steam rolling, the items have been paid for and the person on the selling end of things is just sitting there doing nothing.

Or perhaps not. Perhaps the person has had an emergency. Well you can't tell me in this day and age that he or she can't find some way to get an email out to SOMEONE to let the rest of us know there's been a delay. I don't buy it. There are phones that do everything but take out the trash, pretty much everywhere, and there are public libraries, kiosks and coffee shops with internet access pretty much everywhere too. And there are plain old phones that, like, CALL people in just about even the remotest places (where you wouldn't expect resin doll collecting to be real big in the first place...)

It's just... Wrong.

On so many levels that I can't even think of them all.

I'll try to stop ranting now. ... my Final Straw was someone else's situation, not even my own, and it's just put me over that edge.

 

I just can't imagine playing so fast and loose with my finances that I would be forced to cancel an order (which is, btw, a binding contract) just because an unexpected expense came up. I had a buyer who cancelled after explaining that she had cleaned out her entire savings account to buy my doll, but then had a car breakdown and had to choose between honoring the purchase and paying her rent. Of course I would never expect her to buy my doll at the cost of going homeless, but it just it blew my mind that someone would be willing to leave themselves without any financial safety net whatsoever just to purchase a luxury item.

There are so many pretty dolls out there, and so many lovely items, and it's tempting to just buy buy buy...but people really need to put things in perspective and only agree to buy what they can truly afford. That would prevent a *lot* of the problems we seen in the Marketplace.

 

As for flaky buyers, I can feel people's pain. Its why I generally don't hold something unless I have a deposit.

As for paypal fees. I charge them on items over $100 (under $100 is pennies so I don't worry about it). I don't really see the problem. The whole "fees should be calculated in" has some flaws. What if its an auction? You cant calculate in the fees of the total price before the auction cause there is no way of knowing how much the fee will be until after. Adding it after would be the same as charging a paypal fee and I think the buyer would be less put out had they known about it in the beginning rather than after they won the item and thinking they are going to pay a set price. Same if the buyer wanted a layaway option. Paypal charges 2.9%+0.30 on each transaction so multiple transactions would add up. How is the seller to know if the buyer wants to pay buy layaway or not beforehand? Its too complicated and having to figure in all the possibilities just leads to an overcharge of the item imho. As a buyer I'd rather know personally what everything is going towards rather than thinking the bump in price was just the seller trying to pad their pockets or scalp. One thing I can say is I never make the buyer calculate the fees themselves, (which I think is a lot of the reason people hate it) I feel its the seller's responsibility.

A solution would be 'personal' payment and I understand peoples concerns with it but I honestly wouldn't buy from someone I couldn't trust sending a personal payment to. You might feel a bit more secure via purchase but paypal allows for dispute on personal payments too if the sale turned south (I've never tried it but I've seen the option on my account). Honestly though if someone is out to cheat you then they will cheat you, purchase or personal payment regardless. Paypal themselves only reimburse you on EBAY transactions via "buyer protection" so if you buy from here on the doa marketplace and the seller cheats you, you are s*** out of luck if they have already cleaned out the funds in their paypal balance cause that's the only way to get reimbursed. :/

 

It's good to see that I am not the only one that has been having issues with this.

In the past three weeks:

Person was going to sell their incoming doll to me as they decided not to keep it: decided to keep it after two weeks of me thinking I was going to be able to buy it.

Person was going to sell a doll head to me: decided to keep it

I bought a doll after confirming someone wanted the extra parts I did not want: a few hours before the doll arrives, the buyer backs out after finding another seller that lives closer.

It is so frustrating!

 

I was jerked around by a seller that was overly attached to their doll's head and gave me the runaround for AGES about whether or not they actually wanted to sell it. (It was FS in the Marketplace for pete's sake!) After weeks, they decided, sure they'll sell it... at a good $50 more than originally agreed upon. Apparently, $50 would've been enough to ease their pain (and it was already pretty highly priced.) I gave them a piece of my mind and moved on lol. That was a couple years ago and thinking about it still makes me flustered!

I can understand being attached to your dolls. Sometimes you realize you're making a mistake. OK... But to string a buyer along for so long that they really have a bit of investment in your doll and are really hoping to buy it and then trying to use that to squeeze more money out of them... yikes.

 

well actually i think its reasonable to tell a person why your payment will be late or something. if i expect money from someone and he/she cant pay, i want to know at least stated loosely what the reason is. so if im late with a payment i tell the reason (without details though) just to make the seller understand better and to give him/her an overall idea of when i will be able to pay. i think its very rude to just say "cant pay now, sorry", in such a case i would ask why.

 

I think I've backed out of transactions perhaps twice in my time here. The first time I was looking at an MNF BW Shiwoo, he was lovely and so was his seller, but ultimately I decided that the price was too high (once I factored in shipping from overseas and the inevitable customs fees I would have to pay once he arrived on British shores), the other was when I had my SDC Kurt up as a feeler, I was in two minds about selling him as it was (which is why he was only a feeler), because I don't really do boy dolls and at that time he was living in his box and came out for special occasions (like never ), a buyer was pretty enthusiastic about rehoming him for me and she was absolutely lovely, but I couldn't let Rupert go. I actually cried like a child when I opened his box again.

In both cases the buyer and the seller were absolutely lovely and understanding, but I felt pretty shabby for having to back down. No money changed hands and the situations hadn't escalated down to the swapping of PayPal details, but still. When I agree to buy (or to sell) my word is my bond and I felt awful about backing out. These days I have a tighter control on myself and I only PM sellers if I have a serious intent to buy or I have some queries about their sales pitches before I can consider what they have for sale

I think it is only honourable to tell someone when your payment will be late (but I think it is more honourable to actually get the payment in on time in the first place...) There is a way of explaining that you'll be away from your computer for a weekend looking after a sick relative without going into TMI territory. In the case that you yourself are sick and can't get to your computer to pay, there must be a back up in place. Perhaps a friend also on DoA could contact your seller/buyer and explain what the hold up is and that you'll be back on your feet as soon as possible?

I do believe in transparent communication between buyers and sellers, especially over the fickle internet. We all have to trust each other on the MP, especially with new members just starting out with little to no feedback, and people can't trust you if you don't honour your agreements with them or keep them in the dark.

 

I agree that it's terribly annoying to have such unreliable people flooding the markets, but I believe the cause is something that could be avoided if people were sensible enough to manage their own finances properly, instead of leaving a 5 dollar margin for emergencies. The whole, my car broke down, etc... Is always something that I've planned ahead for and kept money in the bank to save for a rainy day. That means on top of doll funds.

I can hardly fathom how some people "clean out their accounts" for a doll purchase. Imho, it's completely irresponsible and risky. Not only for both parties of the transaction, but also just as a life rule.

If I'm unsure of buying, I'll ask to hold the item and state that as my reason. I wouldn't think any less of the buyer if they choose to refuse my request. I believe all delicacies like availability of funds/time frame/etc.. should be decided and finalized before the transaction occurs. Once the money is decided to be transferred, all is permanent. :\ No sympathy, no emotions involved. Business is business. If those decided facts are broken, I'd like to be able to leave feedback :V Unfortunately our rules don't allow for it.

 

This is one of those things that just gets me rather riled up because most of the time it is just common sense and decency really. I mean, if there is a reason why you can't get the payment to a seller on a specific date (especially if you arranged it in advance) then it is only fair to inform the seller of this. What if the seller is relying on that money and needs it for that specific date? I'm certain that you wouldn't like it done to you, so why do it to somebody else? I am lucky because I have never had something like this happen to me. I have had people ask me for layaway and we have talked about when payments are to be sent, and the buyers have always been very true to their word

Now, as for backing out of a transaction. I believe that once a seller and buyer have arranged to exchange money for a doll then that should not be cancelled UNLESS it is due to a very good reason. I have only done this once myself and I was in desperate need of the money because something rather urgent had come up. I contacted the seller immediately and informed them of this. Other than this, I really do not think it is fair to mess sellers around, especially if they have turned down other offers to accommodate yours.

Just because it is not a law binding contract doesn’t mean that people can take the mick and do whatever they want.

 

I also just had a bad experience with a doll I'm selling. I had given the seller a shipping estimate via the UPS website of $41. She asked if I could help her out with shipping, so I told her, fine give me $30. She asked again if I could help and I said, fine, $20. I had already marked the doll down by $30 and now I was paying half of the shipping? Ugh. Anyway, the seller specifically asked that I include a tracking number. So, I go to the UPS store and they quote me a freaking $102 to ship. So I then go to the regular post office and they quote me $46 but can't give me a tracking number. So I contact the seller asap and tell her either we can ship out the doll via UPS to get a tracking, but she's going to have to pay an extra $40 (I'd end up paying $40 in shipping and her $60) or we can ship her out priority and she won't have to pay anything more, but no tracking number. The buyer then contacts me and said that I promised a shipping number and that she expected nothing less. I told her I could not afford to pay that much in shipping, I was already loosing money on the doll. In the end the buyer asked for her money back. I was furious, but I did refund her money despite saying clearly in my thread NO REFUNDS!