Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

I think something like that needs to be definitely be left in their feedback thread. I would certainly not want to sell to someone like that who expected me to pay half of such expensive shipping. That's ridiculous. I'm sure they don't expect companies to do that, why expect individuals to take a hard hit like that?

 

After just finishing my Advanced Business Law classes I feel I really should correct these statements.

IF you PM a seller asking to buy their doll and the seller accepts. Then you have just made a BINDING contract. Even if it was made verbally over a phone then this is a Legally Binding Contract. As such it actually can be taken to court if the seller/buyer backs out. If the Seller does not deliver the product or the buyer pay the bill on time or within the specified time frame, then they are in Breach of Contract.

Example:

Seriously people. The things I've seen get taken to court. Trust me. It could happen to you if you are messing around with people in the marketplace.

 

I feel like communication is key and ultimately one of the most important parts of being ethical as a buyer or a seller.

In the past, I have had buyers back out of sales and I remember doing this once myself around 12 years ago. I find myself being quite lenient because I understand how fleeting interest can be sometimes or that personal issues arise. Just recently, I had a buyer back out. After two weeks of receiving no response to PMs and other forms of communication I was informed that the buyer had been hospitalized. I felt so bad for the person and wished them well. I try to be understanding when circumstances like that come up.

For all intensive purposes, I just prefer some form of communication. The buyers I've had have been very honest with me about their reasoning behind backing out though. That's something I really appreciate.

 

Great post! I think maybe this should be stickied in the marketplace to let the flakes know there are consequences.

 

I definitely agree with this.

A good reason isn't really "Well, I've found something I like more, so I am going to say no to you."

It would be more like "A tree fell on my car and I need to use the money for that instead."

I've had people back out of things I've held for them, and then see them buying items from others and get irritated.

I understand slightly that with BJDs, if you're going to spend $300+ on something, you should be completely happy with what you're buying, and so I can understand if someone isn't 100% sure and then change their mind. But in that case, think it through thoroughly before putting in an offer.

 

I am much more wary of selling here now as I have had several flakes keep me hanging on " I will pay next week" etc etc....
but when contacted they go on about how they didn't understand how it works!!! its a bit like a shop guys you pay before you get the item!

When I contacted one and said I guess you didn't want ( after changing to a layaway deal for her!) She said actually I do want the doll but don't have the money now!!! TELL ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

If I have to back out of a deal then I exrend the courtesy of saying so before any commitment are made, I apologise profusely and so on. Its called manners.

I have backed out of a deal but gone back months later to buy the doll when I have had the money. The seller was very nice and understanding, but I did TELL her about the difficulties(not in appalling detal) and when i went back and she still had the doll she was fine.

I try to pay immediately I get the paypal address, I quote shipping when I know what it is and if I make a mistake and it is not too big then I will adsorb it if its a big mistake then I discuss it. Honesty please.

Not being able to notify the community about flakey(genuinely) buyers and sellers is driving people away from the Marketplace,lots of posts here have said this. This is bad for us all as it would be a shame to lose this privilege.
It is very tempting to buy lots when there is so much on the site and I am just as susceptible to temptation! if you make a mistake I won't mind just tell me but it drives me crazy when people say I want a doll and dissapear or just start yanking your chain...

I have made some great freinds here selling and trading and its great but its slightly soiled by the silly people.

 

I had agreed to a trade with someone then did not here back from them after I asked for their addy. They were in another country so after a while I decided to pm them to say I decided not to go with the trade not really expecting to here back but then of course they pm'd me a few days later to say okay. I was bummed because I really wanted their doll but because their communication was so spotty and they were in another country I was afraid it would turn out badly. I still think I made the right decision but I regret missing out on the doll. As a note, the other person is very nice and I do not think they were trying to pull anything since I have talked to them since but they are rarely on the forum and have had numerous pages because of it. I guess when your dealing with two people who may have a job and numerous commitments not everyone can be on as often as I am.

Edit, Demented Pea you are allowed to leave flaky feedback on DOA.
I have only had to once and I was very difficult for me because up until that point the person was nice. But if you back out of a deal last minute especially on a layaway be prepared for Negative feedback. You can always say, I am really sorry for flaking but.. and I think that goes a long way to admit you made a mistake. I am talking to flakes here not Dememted Pea but flakes who get upset because they are left negative feedback.

 

I think this needs to be revived.

 

Communication! That's one of the most important things when buying from the MP.

I think sellers should state in their sales threads the timeframe in which they will answer to PMs if it's more than one/two days or if they're busy or on holiday in a certain period.
It happened to me that I contacted sellers for dolls or clothes they had on sale, didn't get an answer (even if they'd been active on the forum) and then notice the items I wanted to buy where marked as "sold" or "on hold". Now I track every PM I send when buying something, because I find that behaviour incredibly annoying.

Another time I contacted a seller to buy a doll, it took several days to get replies, and since it seemed she had trouble communicating in English I even wrote her in Greek, her own mother tongue, to make communication easier for her; after one month of inconclusive PM exchanging she stopped answering me, said she changed her mind and didn't want to sell the doll and I stopped bothering... I didn't even leave negative feedback...

 

Personally, I never PM someone about an item unless I'm 101% sure I want it, AND have the money to pay immediately. I have never done layaway, and I never plan to. If something happened, I wouldn't want to back out on the seller. Also, all of my PMs are directed to my phone, so I know if I get something from DoA. As soon as a seller tells me their Paypal address, I send money that day. It's just common courtesy. So far, I've had great transactions on the MP.

 

As far as truly 'unethical', I think that would cover: lying about shipping, lying about modifications/damage/yellowing that you knew about, and lying about bootlegs or recasts that you knew were such. And of course, backing out of a lay-away in progress, since that's breaking a contract.

Everything else is flakey and annoying, and if they meet the criteria for flakey feedback such should be left, but otherwise... unethical? Probably not.

Just use the golden rule to guide you. If you wouldn't want a buyer doing it to you, don't do it to a seller. And vice versa.

 

What I really can't stand and don't undestand is, there are so many people sending PMs with interest and after I check all kind of shipping methods and information, they don't answer. It is ok if the buyer isn't interested anymore, it really is no problem - but a single little PM would be kind.
I don't often sell at the marketplace, but the few times I tried, it always ended with no answer.
For example:
One time I checked different shipping methods, ran to the post office together with the packed doll box to let them exactly check the postage, and after my last mail with different shipping options and asking what she thinks of it - no answer. I waited some days and saw the buyer online most of the time... After I changed my sale tread to "finished/keep the doll" (it was a feeler before), she sent me a PM about 2 minutes later.
Or when I start a tread selling a doll and write there is no option for a split, I get a PM with huge interest, after my mail I get another PM asking if a split is possible, I say no like my sale's tread - again no answer anymore.

Is it this difficult just to write a small message and telling the seller they are not interested anymore?

 

A few points that I feel are common courtesy or just plain wrong not to follow:

As a buyer:
1. Don't ask about an item you are not serious about buying. A seller cannot change the skintone of a doll or size of clothes, and really doesn't need to be bothered to take 50 extra pix just to get shot down.
2. Don't commit to buy if you don't have the money to pay on time. This goes for layaways and holds as well. If you don't have a plan to pay something off, or money is really tight and you might not be able to, don't commit to buy.
3. Read the listing before agreeing to buy or asking questions that are answered on the page. Unless the seller states they are flexible with their rules, don't try to change them.
4. Keep your word. If you have to back out, do not expect a refund if they strictly noted that they don't offer refunds. It is not the seller's fault that you went back on your agreement, they need the money too. They shouldn't be punished for your mistake, and you backing out may mean their item has to get price dropped to sell, or they've already turned down interested buyers. Just because you no longer want it, doesn't mean they can just resell it asap for the same amount.

As a seller:
1. List all costs upfront. Give your buyer the complete total upfront before you give them your PP address. It's really unfair to a buyer to tack on extra costs later. If your doll is listed at $300, your buyer expects to pay $300, not $300 + $50 shipping + $15 shipping supplies + $30 fees +$10 gas money to get to the PO +etc etc etc.
2. Ship within the listed time frame. 1-3 days does NOT mean a month later.
3. Package everything securely. Even if you buy insurance, if you just throw a doll in a box and send it and it gets damaged, the PO will not reimburse you....then you have a mess.
4. Reply to PMs within a day or two. If you are too busy to check PMs, you probably don't need to be selling stuff.


For everybody:
1. Communication!!! Cannot stress this enough! Nobody should have to wait for days or longer wondering if they are getting an item or selling one. Nobody should be stuck wondering if they'll ever get paid or receive their item. Be honest. most people would rather hear "I'm sorry, but due to circumstances, shipping/payment is going to be a couple of days late, but I will definitely ship/pay on this date ____." than nothing at all.
2. No excuses. I have seen SO many excuses of "I was sick" or "my family/kid/pet/friend was sick/died" or "I was busy with school/work"...it gets really old, and I'm sure gets used more often than is actually true. If you don't have time to handle a transaction professionally, stay away from the MP until you can.
3. Leave honest feedback. If the transaction was great, say why! If it was neutral, say that too. what is acceptable to one person might not be to another, so details are important. Being honest can help other people make informed decisions to buy or not in the future and prevent problems. "positive feedback, good seller." doesn't really help anybody....but "very friendly, great doll, packaging was great, she got her quickly and safe but was a little dirty" might sound great to some, nothing a magic eraser can't fix, but the dirt might be a huge issue to somebody else, and prevent them from buying from the seller and posting in the problem transactions thread in the future. Of course, if there IS an issue, try to work it out with your buyer/seller first. Don't just spring a negative feedback thread on them without giving them a chance to fix things privately first. How a person handles a problem can make a huge difference in whether to leave positive or negative feedback.

 

Biggest gripe for me is people not answering their damn pms.
I've had various messages from people about items I'm selling asking for shipping quotas and the like and then after I've replied I have heard nothing, not even a "no thank you." That is a seriously common trend on the MP these days and I absolutely hate it. I'd leave bad feedbck for every person who does that if I could.

 

I've had someone try to change the our MP arrangement mid-race, and it was all solved politely with open communication. I decided that I was going to stick with the original price offered and offered to end the deal if the other person was unhappy about the situation. She admitted that she'd still continue the sale but wasn't really happy with it. She didn't leave me feedback but I left her positive feedback. Since we were very open about our thoughts on the deal it was what I expected, and I'm totally fine with it. Ultimately she got helped out of layaway she wasn't going to get her money back on anyway and I got my doll So all went well.

It's amazing how much communication can help, even if you agree to walk away from a deal "unhappy" but still "satisfied" that everything was done honestly and aboveboard. I think this is the most important ethic to be practiced.

My lifestyle has recently changed. I used to work very easy 40hrs per week and had plenty of time to check DoA on my cellphone. However, when DoA recently changed the format my cellphone hates the wysiwyg editor and I can't reply to PMs. Also, my work is now crazy and I'mbusy 50-60 hrs a week working to all hours of the night with no breaks. I'll admit twice now I have inquired about a doll for sale (not as interested buyer but asking questions about it) and twice failed to respond to emails with questions answered. It made me feel horrible and I apologized as soon as I realized what I did. I also HATE it when people ask about something and then never respond and here I was doing the same thing! I'm not much more careful about how I inquire about items on the MP and make sure to check my PMs every day. It made me realize though that unless someone says "okay what's your Paypal address?" then I don't hold anything for anyone. They have the right to walk away disinterested. I have the right to sell my item to the next person ready to buy.

 

1. Ethics in the market place; I believe that you should inform a seller of your change of heart and wear the penalty if need be, if you no longer want the item. rather than leaving them to guess...

Yeah, of course! I think that is completely reasonable. My personal rule is to treat others in every way how you would want to be treated yourself. By the time I am making a purchase, I make 310% I am totally committed to buying. I've had people back out on a purchase- it is very annoying and a waste of my time. I am unlikely to do business with them in the future as a result.

2. Reserve sob stories for PMS and your own blogs/journals and stick to the facts the seller needs to hear ie: no money this week - sorry...

Also agreed. I'm not your best bud, I am a random person on the internet and it's a business transaction. I really just avoid all forum related purchases if I can and use another merchant service to buy and sell. I want another layer of privacy and protection for my transactions.

3. Use your head and don't inquire about the sale of another item when you've just pleaded penniless about something you owe money on...

I hate this because it is definitely senseless and borders on hilarious. I just saw this not too long ago- someone trying to get out of a layaway on one LE doll to buy another, newer LE doll. She was giving the business a really bad review because she said they were going to keep her payment money (a rule outlined with this company in the first place if you decide not to complete your transaction and have an item on layaway). She had a long list of excuses as to why she couldn't pay, transportation, health issues, kids, other financial obligations- it went on and on. Sometimes things happen in life and you just have to make the best decisions you can.

but...

Then, like magic, this person started another thread asking for people to go in on a spilt for a newly released LE doll. I was just sort of floored- not because she had a change of heart (whatever, really)- but because she thought people wouldn't notice? After all the drama with the last business, who'd be willing to go in on another purchase with her? Maybe she's a honey badger and doesn't care. Who can say?

I can't claim to know all the details and I'm sure it may all have a rational explanation... it just looked so bad.

Oh common sense...

 

From my personal experience, I don't think communication and honesty are the only problem with MP, but maybe some people inability to empathy.

When a person complete payment for a doll, I consider the doll someone else's property. Then when I ship the doll, I wrap it and tape it like it's made of crystal glass. I'm not afraid to "waste" $5 on tape or bubble wrap on someone else's things, so I wrap the doll the way I would want that doll to be wrap if I was the buyer.
"and was bubble wrapped so well, I don't think he could possibly have been damaged unless he got run over by a truck!" <-I'm extremely proud to hear this!

Then this one time, I got a doll from mp, and when it arrive, I was terrified! The tape was pilling off because the seller only tape like a few pieces of tape on the thin poster paper wrapping of the box >.<
How much can you possibly save with a few pieces of tape/poster paper?
Was it worth the risk of damaging the doll and the issues that comes with that?

I left a positive feedback for the seller anyway because luckily, the doll was not damage, I love the doll, and I just wanted to avoid drama or have any "problem" transaction stuck to my feedback.

 

Im new to the forums and actually quite worried about this kind of thing, I like to think people are inherently good and honest but we know how that sometimes goes. My real concern is how payment works, its not ebay and there inst the safety net that comes wit it other then the Ban Hammer.